Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2011 10:42 AM, Scout wrote:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 10:14, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 17.10.2011 07:01, schrieb Scout:


..

For Earth orbit you need much faster flight than you would need to
stay in orbit around the moon, but nevertheless it is quite fast. On
Earth it took a Saturn V rocket, to lift the craft into orbit. On
the
Moon it would take less fuel, but way more, than the few gallons,
they
had in the lander.

Ok, let's see your math.

I mean if you know they needed more, then clearly you have calculated
all this out and know exactly how much they would need and whether
they
could have that much on the lander.

So let's see your work.

---- Insert mathematical proof here.

Here I will even aid you with the specifications for the mass,
amount of
fuel, type of fuel, specific impulse, thrust provided, available
delta-V, and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_...Specifications


Well, I'm a little too lazy, but a rough calculation is possible:

There is the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation
velocity_final=v_exhaust* ln(mass_start/mass_finish)

V_end= 2200 m/s * ln (4547 kg/(4547-2353) kg)

that is :
v_end approx. 1603 m/s

this is an estimated calculation without gravity.

the final velocity is reduced by
delta v = g_moon * (time of engine running)

Don't know that number (time_ engine)

Maybe 100 seconds (???)

makes:
delta v = 1.6 m/s²*100 s=160 m/s

What gives a rough estimate for the final velocity of the landers
ascending stage of
v_end = 1440 m/s.

Now the orbital velocity had to be compared. But I don't have the data
and actually I'm too lazy to find them out. But usual orbits should be
a little less than escape velocity, what is
v_orbit_escape = 2380 m/s.

V_end is a rough estimate ('thumb times pi'). For better calculations
someone with more experience in rocket science is needed.

I cannot even tell you, if the ascent stage is fast enough or not. But
my intuition tells me, it is not.


IOW, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you're too
lazy to do the work needed to find out if what you think actually has
merit or is simply bat **** crazy.


I haven't claimed to be a rocket scientist. I'm totally happy with an
rough estimate. I could do it better, for sure, but do not want.

What you have isn't even a rought estimate that applies. You simply
threw some stuff up there, came up with some answers, but didn't use the
data from the apollo program, which it should be noted I was even nice
enough to lead you to by the hand, much less show that the results
produced proved that a landing and take-off physically could not occur
given those conditions. You simply flopped around trying to put together
an argument.

Free hint: If you're going to say someone else is lying, then you need
to make sure you have your ducks in a row and can PROVE IT.

All you've shown is that you are an empty headed conspiracy theorist,
with lots of notions, but no facts, no proof, and from all evidence
absolutely NO desire to find out what the facts really are.

snip



Since I met you, you were a loon, nothing has gotten better with time ...

Nope, I simply don't buy his bull**** without proof, just as I wouldn't buy
yours.

If you throw something out there, then you need to be able to back it up
with some support if called on it.

If you can't then expect to be treated in the manner your deserve.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Hand cranked Calculator, you said?

http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...ide+Calculator

http://www.ddaymuseum.org

When World War Two was over, America sent some big machines to
Germany/Europe.The machines were used for grinding up that rubble, the
ground up rubble was mixed into new concrete/rebuilding.

I have a Curta hand crank Calculator.I bought it for $88.00 at an Indian
(India) store in Saigon,Vietnam in 1964.
cuhulin

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 19.10.2011 10:42, schrieb Scout:



IOW, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you're too
lazy to do the work needed to find out if what you think actually has
merit or is simply bat **** crazy.


I haven't claimed to be a rocket scientist. I'm totally happy with an
rough estimate. I could do it better, for sure, but do not want.

What you have isn't even a rought estimate that applies. You simply
threw some stuff up there, came up with some answers, but didn't use the
data from the apollo program, which it should be noted I was even nice
enough to lead you to by the hand, much less show that the results
produced proved that a landing and take-off physically could not occur
given those conditions. You simply flopped around trying to put together
an argument.

Free hint: If you're going to say someone else is lying, then you need
to make sure you have your ducks in a row and can PROVE IT.

All you've shown is that you are an empty headed conspiracy theorist,
with lots of notions, but no facts, no proof, and from all evidence
absolutely NO desire to find out what the facts really are.

You are absolutely wrong!

Then let's see your proof. Not some bull**** hack job you threw
together, but conclusive factual objective mathematical PROOF.....

Otherwise, I'm right.

OK. You seem to insist on something more profound ;-(.

As I said, that needs some sort of work. So I relocate from sofa to
desktop and try to figure that out. But - please - a few days are
necessary, what is certainly possible ?

TH

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Sofa to desktop? Doggy's couch (sofa) is my WebTV comfort zone.
cuhulin

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...es+Saved+D-Day
See that hand cranked Tides Calculator Machine?

Some American G.Is drowned when they landed, stepped into the water,
because they were carrying so much weight in their backpacks.

The old Higgins Boat factory, part of the D-Day Museum in New Orleans
sits on the site of that old Boat Factory.
cuhulin

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work, they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any actual
support or evidence.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Army's new weapon, the Switchblade.
http://www.stevequayle.com/index1.html

Lets me check a couple of new news updates now.I better hurry, ergo
couch (sofa) buddy doggy is fixin to cut the light.
Doggy, you wants a snickerdoodle?
///Cookie? yeah! WOO WOO WOOF!///
cuhulin

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work, they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.
Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws, you
have in America.

Don't know, if that's true or not, but I have seen a book about it,
entitled 'Forbidden to shower naked' (Actually in German 'Nacktduschen
streng Verboten').
http://www.buecher.de/shop/recht/nac...d_id/24889734/

I cannot really imagine, it might be a crime to be naked in the bathroom.

Conspiracy is making the preparation more a crime than actually
committing it. This is extremely strange, in my eyes.

But maybe 'crime' is enough and hidden means plus involvement of
government or other officials.

'Theory' is the other misnomer, because theory means a hypothesis, that
had not been proven wrong. It is actually the best you could get,
according to the scientific method.

TH

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the
government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work,
they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.

I acknowledge your desire and attempt to change the subject.

I can only wonder why you don't wish to talk about the 'theory' aspect of
it.

Perhaps because it hits too close to home?


Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws, you
have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy can
only occur under American law.

Let's just acknowledge you're bat **** crazy.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the
government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work,
they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.

I acknowledge your desire and attempt to change the subject.

I can only wonder why you don't wish to talk about the 'theory' aspect
of it.

Perhaps because it hits too close to home?


Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

What you call 'conspiracy' is in German 'Verschwörung'.
This term comes from 'Schwur', what is 'oath' in English.

The theory (actually the correct term would be 'hypothesis') is, that
there are groups - connected around the globe - through a system of oath
and hidden connections.

Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden.
Only the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the oath,
while e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would exist
as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove, since
the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.

TH