Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

What you call 'conspiracy' is in German 'Verschwörung'.
This term comes from 'Schwur', what is 'oath' in English.

The theory (actually the correct term would be 'hypothesis') is, that
there are groups - connected around the globe - through a system of oath
and hidden connections.

Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden. Only
the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the oath, while
e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would exist
as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove, since
the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.


You forget the Muslims
They too have a precept in the Koran to kill those who would leave the
"faith"

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 20.10.2011 15:41, schrieb SaPeIsMa:


Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden.
Only the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the
oath, while e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would
exist as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove,
since the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.


You forget the Muslims
They too have a precept in the Koran to kill those who would leave the
"faith"

Where have got that from?

Do Muslims have an oath?

I think, 'faith' is something you have, hence could - maybe - give it up
or loose it, but cannot leave.

TH

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

On Oct 19, 1:44*am, "Scout"
wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message

...









On 10/18/2011 10:42 AM, Scout wrote:

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 10:14, schrieb Scout:

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 17.10.2011 07:01, schrieb Scout:

..

For Earth orbit you need much faster flight than you would need to
stay in orbit around the moon, but nevertheless it is quite fast. On
Earth it took a Saturn V rocket, to lift the craft into orbit. On
the
Moon it would take less fuel, but way more, than the few gallons,
they
had in the lander.

Ok, let's see your math.

I mean if you know they needed more, then clearly you have calculated
all this out and know exactly how much they would need and whether
they
could have that much on the lander.

So let's see your work.

---- Insert mathematical proof here.

Here I will even aid you with the specifications for the mass,
amount of
fuel, type of fuel, specific impulse, thrust provided, available
delta-V, and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_...Specifications

Well, I'm a little too lazy, but a rough calculation is possible:

There is the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation
velocity_final=v_exhaust* ln(mass_start/mass_finish)

V_end= 2200 m/s * ln (4547 kg/(4547-2353) kg)

that is :
v_end approx. 1603 m/s

this is an estimated calculation without gravity.

the final velocity is reduced by
delta v = g_moon * (time of engine running)

Don't know that number (time_ engine)

Maybe 100 seconds (???)

makes:
delta v = 1.6 m/s²*100 s=160 m/s

What gives a rough estimate for the final velocity of the landers
ascending stage of
v_end = 1440 m/s.

Now the orbital velocity had to be compared. But I don't have the data
and actually I'm too lazy to find them out. But usual orbits should be
a little less than escape velocity, what is
v_orbit_escape = 2380 m/s.

V_end is a rough estimate ('thumb times pi'). For better calculations
someone with more experience in rocket science is needed.

I cannot even tell you, if the ascent stage is fast enough or not. But
my intuition tells me, it is not.

IOW, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you're too
lazy to do the work needed to find out if what you think actually has
merit or is simply bat **** crazy.

I haven't claimed to be a rocket scientist. I'm totally happy with an
rough estimate. I could do it better, for sure, but do not want.

What you have isn't even a rought estimate that applies. You simply
threw some stuff up there, came up with some answers, but didn't use the
data from the apollo program, which it should be noted I was even nice
enough to lead you to by the hand, much less show that the results
produced proved that a landing and take-off physically could not occur
given those conditions. You simply flopped around trying to put together
an argument.

Free hint: If you're going to say someone else is lying, then you need
to make sure you have your ducks in a row and can PROVE IT.

All you've shown is that you are an empty headed conspiracy theorist,
with lots of notions, but no facts, no proof, and from all evidence
absolutely NO desire to find out what the facts really are.

snip

Since I met you, you were a loon, nothing has gotten better with time ....

Nope, I simply don't buy his bull**** without proof, just as I wouldn't buy
yours.

- If you throw something out there,
- then you need to be able to back it up
- with some support if called on it.
-
- If you can't then expect to be treated
- in the manner your deserve.

Says Who ?
My Assertion...
Can Out Assert Your Assertion !
-and that's proof enough [.]

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the
government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work,
they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any
actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.

I acknowledge your desire and attempt to change the subject.

I can only wonder why you don't wish to talk about the 'theory' aspect
of it.

Perhaps because it hits too close to home?


Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire under
the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

On Oct 20, 10:00*pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law *is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

Gee "TH" in your 40+ Posts to this one thread
you have dispelled my prior high regard for
Germany; and my misconceptions about the German
People being well educated, smart and intelligent.

who'da thunk ~ RHF

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
snip


It's NOT the ONLY meaning of the word

Cherry-picking the meaning to be able to spew more bull**** is just boring
and stupid

GO get yourself a better dictionary and smarten up

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Oct 20, 10:00 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires
more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

Gee "TH" in your 40+ Posts to this one thread
you have dispelled my prior high regard for
Germany; and my misconceptions about the German
People being well educated, smart and intelligent.

who'da thunk ~ RHF
.

The term "pompous blowhard" comes to mind, every time I look at one of his
posts.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law.

It also means a lot of other things.

Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
 

Am 26.10.2011 00:48, schrieb SaPeIsMa:

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 21.10.2011 15:46, schrieb SaPeIsMa:



But there are more similarities: e.g. Jews and Muslims have
circumcision (what is a rare fact otherwise), do not eat pig and
practise (or practised) stoning (what is an extremely cruel and brutal
punishment).


OH wow
A bunch of desert people have the same health practices, which therefore
makes their religions similar.

No, I mean they are the same people. The religions are different of
course. But since they are the same people, these religious originate
from the same roots.

A more recent example would be Catholics and Protestants. Both have the
same roots in Christianity, but they fought bitter and long lasting
wars. Germany was almost completely destroyed and depopulated through
this, even if they were all Christians.

Some thousand years ago, there was a religion in the area, were is now
Jerusalem. This religion was ancestor to all following religions from
the same roots. From this believe these religions have developed into
their current different forms. The roots have to be the same, since the
religions are in parts identical: use the same metaphors, stories,
characters and even locations.

Circumcision is only one example or cultural identity of the people
addressed. It is - of course - not a 'healthy habit', but a (pseudo-)
religious practise.

It's a bad thing - btw - because it changes the appearance of the human
body, that is intended to be as perfect as it is and not as humans want
it to be.


Christianity and Judaism share in total the bibles first part.

Christianity is 'modified Judaism' (through prophet) as Islam is.
Since 'modification' is a heretic crime, worth death penalty, these
religions hate each other since ancient times (for no apparent reason).


DOH ! again

Jesus was NO "prophet"
He was, according to the Christians, the Messiah predicted in the Old
Testament and also the Son of God

Islam says Jesus was a prophet. Jews do not mention him (since Judaism
was created earlier). Islam was created later, hence could mention him.
But the bible is ABOUT Jesus, not written by him. A prophet is someone,
who manages to write things down and tell that to the people. Apparently
Mohamed was a prophet (but I have only limited knowledge about Islam)

Muhammad, on the other hand was no prophet at all, he was a minor war
lord who wanted to extend his power by upgrading himself to a religious
prophet

I have no idea, from what sources prophets are chosen, but 'little
warlord' would not exclude him from such a position.


When the Christians rejected him, he started his own cult, a big part of
which is to kill just about anyone both inside and outside of his cult.
The COMPLETE ANTITHESIS of Christianity..

Actually the Christians killed a few people, too. They really love to
kill: Muslims, Indians, Africans, each other ...

Greetings

Thomas