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Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
..410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 ....
good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith
wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"BDK" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. Leave it to Johnny Kook to pick a POS like a Bond Arms 2 shot. Dozens of better guns out there. Depends on what you're after. On a shot per shot basis, the .410 is going to deliver more to target. effectively ten 30 caliber pellets to target in the time it takes to pull the trigger twice. Whereas the Ruger is going to take 5 trigger pulls, a reload, and than another 5 trigger pulls. That's not to say that one is a better gun than the other, but as in so much it depends on what you're looking for it to do. Also the .410 loading is generally reported to have a fairly high 1 shot stop percentage, since you are usually effectively hitting the target multiple times in 1 shot. Based on reports and testing, the rounds that produce the best one shot stops are those that produce a nice hydrostatic shock wave in the blood pressure that effectively shuts down the brain for a period of time. Now that's not to say they are going to stay down, only that they are going to drop on the first shot and stay down for a bit. Shotguns do this quite effectively since they tend to dump a large part of their energy to a broad section of the body inducing such a hydrostatic shock. This, of course, depends upon a reasonably direct impact to center mass. So it all depends on your preferences, choices, and so on. My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:30:19 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) I can get 5 shots on target. And reload in about 2 seconds. better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? A derringer is an inaccurate piece of junk. Ruger makes an infinately better gun. much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. ..357 or 38 P+ hollowpoints at close range you only need one or two anyway. The other 3 are extra. The SP101 is truly a remarkably accurate gun for a snubby. I can shoot the same size groups with that as I can with any handguns. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 5:30 PM, Scout wrote:
wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. He thinks he will be in a movie or a shooting range when all this takes place ... you kill them with the first shot, you might have time enough for the second shot, then you better be ducking for cover and grabbing your backup and looking around for his partner(s.) There is much to be prepared for, both before, during and AFTER the situation ... fact is, the further they are from you, the more difficult it may be to convince a jury that deadly force was valid ... the closer they are to you, the more chance it will be your attacker who is talking to the court, prosecutor and jury ... for your murder ... be prepared and keep a cool head ... then, the mistakes you make might be minor enough to handle easily ... Regards, JS Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
Small gun? Predator 2 is up next on the FMC channel.Sneaky alien
creature skinning drug dealers in 1997 City of the Angels,You better git a Bigger Gun. cuhulin |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:51:32 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. Would be an OK survival gun for your BOB. Would be somewhat useful for taking small game but only at very close ranges as shot would spread really fast. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:30:19 -0400, "Scout" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) I can get 5 shots on target. And reload in about 2 seconds. better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? A derringer is an inaccurate piece of junk. Ruger makes an infinately better gun. much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. .357 or 38 P+ hollowpoints at close range you only need one or two anyway. The other 3 are extra. The SP101 is truly a remarkably accurate gun for a snubby. I can shoot the same size groups with that as I can with any handguns. Unless you are facing a completely green and incompetent attacker ... the matter will be decided in those first two shots ... in the movies, there are gun fights, teenie bobber gangsters like a lot of shooting ... a real attacker knows what he wants, is professional and is going to have it QUICKLY! ... most idiots are going to allow him into the "zone of no recovery" before they even begin to react ... from there, five bullets or a thousand and five will make damn little difference ... it will be him pumping them into your dead corpse ... Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 6:25 PM, J R wrote:
Small gun? Predator 2 is up next on the FMC channel.Sneaky alien creature skinning drug dealers in 1997 City of the Angels,You better git a Bigger Gun. cuhulin Used to carry a BIG one, really didn't hide well ... now this is my choice: http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/ Even a 9mm can go though a wall and do more damage than you want to accept responsibility for ... if you are good with a firearm, a .32 Beretta, like the wife carries, is plenty. If they are any farther from you than what those weapons can cover, your first choice should be in running ... loss of ego is much better than the time and hassle of explaining a fatal shooting to sufficiency ... there are just too many people willing to have you take far greater risks with your life than you are willing to give them ... Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
John Smith wrote in :
.410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that ya pansy. 6.5" M-29 in a vertical shoulder holster. Extra speed loaders on your belt. -- "I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?" |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Sep 27, 4:29*pm, John Smith wrote:
.410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. *Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS Evidently Bond Arms was advertising on the Michael Savage {Savage Nation} Radio Show http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/ Usually for a Women the 1st Shot is the Only Shot. So a .410 Derringer with a Load of # 4 Buck Shot would be more than enough to put any Attacker in a Room 'down' with ~10 Pellets {~25 Cal} with a 2"~3" wide shot pattern and 6"~12" of penetration. Note : "00" Buck Shot is not recommend for up close 'In-the-Room' Self-Defense. ~ RHF |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
In article ,
says... "BDK" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. Leave it to Johnny Kook to pick a POS like a Bond Arms 2 shot. Dozens of better guns out there. Depends on what you're after. On a shot per shot basis, the .410 is going to deliver more to target. effectively ten 30 caliber pellets to target in the time it takes to pull the trigger twice. Whereas the Ruger is going to take 5 trigger pulls, a reload, and than another 5 trigger pulls. That's not to say that one is a better gun than the other, but as in so much it depends on what you're looking for it to do. Also the .410 loading is generally reported to have a fairly high 1 shot stop percentage, since you are usually effectively hitting the target multiple times in 1 shot. Based on reports and testing, the rounds that produce the best one shot stops are those that produce a nice hydrostatic shock wave in the blood pressure that effectively shuts down the brain for a period of time. Now that's not to say they are going to stay down, only that they are going to drop on the first shot and stay down for a bit. Shotguns do this quite effectively since they tend to dump a large part of their energy to a broad section of the body inducing such a hydrostatic shock. This, of course, depends upon a reasonably direct impact to center mass. So it all depends on your preferences, choices, and so on. My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. I never understood the whole "weight" thing. A half pound or so more than a lightweight gun never bothered my at all. I carried a S&W 28 6+ 1/2" at work for 40 hours a week and they don't come a lot heavier than that. Give me steel always. No plast...er polymer, for me. -- BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running! |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
This morning around 6 sumpin AM, it wasen't doggy that woked me up, it
was a lot of loud wierd sounding thunder and buku lightning and heavy duty rain.Around 10 sumpin AM old country boy's next door neighbor said, You aren't working today? Old country boy (he works at The Can Man metal recycling place on Valley Street) said, Naw man, its too rough out there! Stingray. http://www.cryptome.org/index.html Stingray. http://www.rense.com Stingray. http://www.stevequayle.com/index1.html Stinnnnnnnng-Ray. Its Too Rough Out There!!!!! cuhulin |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 7:59 PM, Harry Callahan wrote:
John wrote in : .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that ya pansy. 6.5" M-29 in a vertical shoulder holster. Extra speed loaders on your belt. LOL!!! Or, an old school Thompson in a violin case! Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Sep 27, 10:59*pm, Harry Callahan wrote:
**** that ya pansy. 6.5" M-29 in a vertical shoulder holster. Extra speed loaders on your belt. -- "I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?" Well, do ya, punk? Obviously the problem here is you bunch of penis envy guys are letting a bunch of Hollywood liberals create your reality for you. And they were all born without brains. (Say, doesn't that bad guy in the ad attacking the blond in the car sort of look like the Governator?) No, you DO NOT want a derringer. What, you are all a bunch of high rolling gamblers? No, you DO NOT want a derringer that shoots .410 shotgun shells. A derringer is a gut gun. It can't be aimed at all. even .410 kicks like a mule and you probably will have trouble hanging on to the piece. Plus it's so small it essentially has NO barrel and if that weren't bad enough, it's a LOT fatter than you think giving you the "turtle in the pants" look if you have it in a pocket. You clowns have been watching the Death Wish marathon too much. Only an idiot would try to carry a .44 magnum like Dirty Harry. Given the flame that shoots out plus the recoil you'd have a much better chance of burning the bad guy alive than shooting him! Not to mention you'd be deaf for a couple days if you shot it inside! Turn off the TV and leave the theater and just go get a nice little . 380 double action pocket rocket. And then PRACTICE with it so that when your life is on the line you actually can HIT something with it besides the floor and ceiling! A nice stainless steel .38 revolver can work too. No .357 or +P bull****. You want to be EFFECTIVE (means stay alive) not prove who has the biggest John Thomas. And Oh yeah, go take an NRA safety course as soon as you get it before you hurt yourself or someone else. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
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Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 10:39 PM, Benj wrote:
On Sep 27, 10:59 pm, Harry wrote: **** that ya pansy. 6.5" M-29 in a vertical shoulder holster. Extra speed loaders on your belt. -- "I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?" Well, do ya, punk? Obviously the problem here is you bunch of penis envy guys are letting a bunch of Hollywood liberals create your reality for you. And they were all born without brains. (Say, doesn't that bad guy in the ad attacking the blond in the car sort of look like the Governator?) No, you DO NOT want a derringer. What, you are all a bunch of high rolling gamblers? No, you DO NOT want a derringer that shoots .410 shotgun shells. A derringer is a gut gun. It can't be aimed at all. even .410 kicks like a mule and you probably will have trouble hanging on to the piece. Plus it's so small it essentially has NO barrel and if that weren't bad enough, it's a LOT fatter than you think giving you the "turtle in the pants" look if you have it in a pocket. You clowns have been watching the Death Wish marathon too much. Only an idiot would try to carry a .44 magnum like Dirty Harry. Given the flame that shoots out plus the recoil you'd have a much better chance of burning the bad guy alive than shooting him! Not to mention you'd be deaf for a couple days if you shot it inside! Turn off the TV and leave the theater and just go get a nice little . 380 double action pocket rocket. And then PRACTICE with it so that when your life is on the line you actually can HIT something with it besides the floor and ceiling! A nice stainless steel .38 revolver can work too. No .357 or +P bull****. You want to be EFFECTIVE (means stay alive) not prove who has the biggest John Thomas. And Oh yeah, go take an NRA safety course as soon as you get it before you hurt yourself or someone else. It's like DUH! You don't want to aim, you might not even have time to aim, you want to point and shoot and have some of those buckshot to hit its' target ... once you get the upper edge, have your safe spot to defend, you can pull out the backup and take time ... that derringer is one serious piece of shootin' power ... just shoot yourself in the little finger, or little toe to check it out ... but I would use the barrel with the .357/.38 ... the buckshot might take off your whole hand! Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/27/2011 11:50 PM, Gray Guest wrote:
... Actually genius, I carry an S&W 908 8+1 single stack nine. I can keep all of them in the kill ring of a B-27 target as fast as I can work the trigger at 7 yards. It's called a joke. I was mocking John Tiny Dick. Do I need to lend you a quarter to buy a clue? Probably good to point out that professionals, govt. terminators, pay for kill, etc. use a .22 - .24 cal. But then, the worst kill I ever seen was with a chain ... I remember thinking at the time, "I'd have preferred to have been killed with a bullet, or two ..." Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Sep 27, 10:39*pm, Benj wrote:
On Sep 27, 10:59*pm, Harry Callahan wrote: **** that ya pansy. 6.5" M-29 in a vertical shoulder holster. Extra speed loaders on your belt. -- "I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?" Well, do ya, punk? Obviously the problem here is you bunch of penis envy guys are letting a bunch of Hollywood liberals create your reality for you. And they were all born without brains. (Say, doesn't that bad guy in the ad attacking the blond in the car sort of look like the Governator?) No, you DO NOT want a derringer. What, you are all a bunch of high rolling gamblers? No, you DO NOT want a derringer that shoots .410 shotgun shells. - A derringer is a gut gun. That's right 'in-a-room' at 2~3 Yards/Metres : It's all about a 'gut' {body} shot and bring them 'down' with one shot. Take the Gun in both hands; get down on one-knee; point the barrel at their 'guts'; and pull the trigger. and keep pulling the trigger to stay alive ~ RHF |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On Sep 28, 2:00*pm, RD Sandman wrote:
John Smith wrote : On 9/27/2011 6:08 PM, wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:30:19 -0400, "Scout" *wrote: *wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. *This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) I can get 5 shots on target. *And reload in about 2 seconds. better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? A derringer is an inaccurate piece of junk. *Ruger makes an infinately better gun. much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. .357 or 38 P+ hollowpoints at close range you only need one or two anyway. *The other 3 are extra. *The SP101 is truly a remarkably accurate gun for a snubby. *I can shoot the same size groups with that as I can with any handguns. Unless you are facing a completely green and incompetent attacker ... the matter will be decided in those first two shots ... in the movies, there are gun fights, teenie bobber gangsters like a lot of shooting ... a real attacker knows what he wants, is professional and is going to have it QUICKLY! ... most idiots are going to allow him into the "zone of no recovery" before they even begin to react ... from there, five bullets or a thousand and five will make damn little difference ... it will be him pumping them into your dead corpse ... Regards, JS - The average self defense scenario follows - the Rule of Three. -*Three shots, - three yards, - three seconds. And If'n That Don't Work {Killing'Em} : Then The Attacker Turns and Runs -or-continues-the-attack-followed-by- The Rule of One* : One Shot, One Yard, One Second. * Pure Survival With a .410 Cal Derringer for Self-Defense : 1st Shot [Stop'Em] @ 2~3 Yards -shoot-1st-to-protect-yourself-from-harm- Last Shot [Kill'Em] @ 1-Yard -1ast-shoot-to-save-your-life-self-defense- |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. That assumes many things which aren't necessarily true. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Scout" wrote in
: You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) While that is true, you also get increased velocity and much better projectile design. I have some 158gr unjacketed Hollow Points +P, Winchester, I think, that are supposed to be effective out of a short barrel. Sort of an event in the airweight, very controlable in the 2.5" M19. -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Scout" wrote in
: "RD Sandman" wrote in message ... "Scout" wrote in : "BDK" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. Leave it to Johnny Kook to pick a POS like a Bond Arms 2 shot. Dozens of better guns out there. Depends on what you're after. On a shot per shot basis, the .410 is going to deliver more to target. effectively ten 30 caliber pellets to target in the time it takes to pull the trigger twice. A .410 handgun round contains 8 or 9 pellets if it is a #4 shot. That's about right, the problem is you lose space because the pellets are staggered. Thus a lot of the shell capacity is empty air. It contains 3 pellets if it is 000 which is approximately .36 caliber. Maybe a few brands, but if you look around even in 2.5" you can get 4 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=533166 and in 3" (which I believe I mentioned somewhere) you get 5 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=170759 and .36 matches up nicely with the .357 caliber of the .38 and .357. A 12ga shoots about 9 pellets in 00. Again, with the 12, you lose capacity because the pellets are staggered. In the .410 they are neatly lined up, making maximum use of the available space. Use a buffered shot and you will get a nice tight group at close ranges. Whereas the Ruger is going to take 5 trigger pulls, a reload, and than another 5 trigger pulls. Nope. Go back and revisit the .410 load fired by a Judge. Are you talking the regular Judge or the 3" Judge? One gives you 4 pellets of triple aught, the other gives you 5. The Bondarm's Century 2000 derringer, the gun under discussion, accepts up to a 3" .410 shell. Hence the 5 pellets discussed. Of course, you could also load in a .410 with 5 pellets of 0000 buck (0.375). Of course, you're probably going to need to mail order those, and I think only a few manufacturers even make them. :-) That's not to say that one is a better gun than the other, but as in so much it depends on what you're looking for it to do. Also the .410 loading is generally reported to have a fairly high 1 shot stop percentage, since you are usually effectively hitting the target multiple times in 1 shot. Three, if all impact and you are shooting 000 buck. Actually even if more than 1 hit, you will still be hitting the target multiple times. :-) However, if that's the case, odds are you didn't hit much of consequence unless you're talking the head. You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) Based on reports and testing, the rounds that produce the best one shot stops are those that produce a nice hydrostatic shock wave in the blood pressure that effectively shuts down the brain for a period of time. Now that's not to say they are going to stay down, only that they are going to drop on the first shot and stay down for a bit. Shotguns do this quite effectively since they tend to dump a large part of their energy to a broad section of the body inducing such a hydrostatic shock. This, of course, depends upon a reasonably direct impact to center mass. So it all depends on your preferences, choices, and so on. This is true. My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. True with the Bond derringer, not so with a Taurus Judge or the S&W. Well, I wasn't intending this to be an in-depth review of all the variations, only contesting Dudu's immediate and apparently arbitrary dismissal of the Century 2000 as being unsuitable for self defense, and challenging each of his talking points to establish that. About the only point that was really valid was the accuracy issue, but at self defense ranges a gun doesn't need to be particularly accurate hence my noting it as pretty much a moot point. Honestly, after several years of looking at derringers and some of the absurd calibers they come in, I find it hard to fault the choice of any lightweight J frame. The more serious calibers are often as wide and nearly as long and always weigh more. Mine hides very well and while reloading isn't really an issue at close range (IMO) reloading a derringer can be a PITA. I bought some Speed Strips and I can carry the J-Frame and 2 Speed strips very comfortably. I really only would carry it if the 908 or G-19 was impractical for some reason, though. -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
Thomas Heger wrote in news:9ei6ptFeh9U1
@mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. But people could 'take it back'. I mean 'the real life', the communities, local affairs, education and so forth. It is all about people and how they behave. People should know, that certain things are not allowed and should not be done. Drugs of all sorts feed the 'bad guys', so you should try to avoid any drugs - at least not pay for them. This because the money for the drugs goes into the wrong canals and supports the criminals and unwanted behaviour. Any person without a shelter is a thread to public health. So it is mandatory to allow every person access to soap and water, some sort of housing and food. Any kind of toxic waste should be removed from public places, to allow kids safe play in their neighbourhood. Public land should be accessible. Even farmland should be allowed to enter for pedestrians, that just want to pass. To create a strong society based on civil affairs, the industry and the smaller companies had to be protected. The Americans fought endless wars without apparent reason and without apparent benefit. Many think, these wars are somehow good for America. But - for example- what kind of benefit do you expect from the invasion of Afghanistan, Somalia, Irak? It always ends like Vietnam: with a lot of dead soldiers and no real gain. TH The "professionals" only prevail if you fight them on their terms. Has no one heard of Sun Tzu? -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/28/2011 10:12 PM, Scout wrote:
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. That assumes many things which aren't necessarily true. I don't know, personal experience has taught me that there are quick fixes. The biggest bully in the world, if I can get access to him, when he is away from his gang, and I with the proper tool(s), can be fixed in damn short order ... cut off the head, the snake dies, it may wither a bit, but it dies ... A gun is a fabulous tool, however, experience, cunning, stealth, intelligence, purpose, motivation, etc., these are all equally important .... a single man with the "righteousness of God" in his heart and soul can be an amazing thing to witness -- a group of such men brought the whole british empire to its' knees and established America ... masters, in fear of their slaves, will always down play the importance of even a single man, let alone the awesome powers which exist in a group of such men, men who were not born to be slaves simply ignore their whining ... most men know what they are, they have already looked into the core of their being and know what exists there ... a coward, or not ... Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/28/2011 11:17 PM, Gray Guest wrote:
. net wrote in : You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) While that is true, you also get increased velocity and much better projectile design. I have some 158gr unjacketed Hollow Points +P, Winchester, I think, that are supposed to be effective out of a short barrel. Sort of an event in the airweight, very controlable in the 2.5" M19. I'd say a police wad cutter would be effective at the distances discussed here ... and cheap! Heck, reused brass and a shot out barrel might even work to your advantage, in some situations -- crudely cast slug, etc. Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 9/28/2011 10:12 PM, Scout wrote: "Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. That assumes many things which aren't necessarily true. I don't know, personal experience has taught me that there are quick fixes. The biggest bully in the world, if I can get access to him, when he is away from his gang, and I with the proper tool(s), can be fixed in damn short order ... cut off the head, the snake dies, it may wither a bit, but it dies ... Like I said above, his comment makes a number of assumptions that aren't necessarily true. One of which you just illustrated. A gun is a fabulous tool, however, experience, cunning, stealth, intelligence, purpose, motivation, etc., these are all equally important ... a single man with the "righteousness of God" in his heart and soul can be an amazing thing to witness -- a group of such men brought the whole british empire to its' knees and established America ... masters, in fear of their slaves, will always down play the importance of even a single man, let alone the awesome powers which exist in a group of such men, men who were not born to be slaves simply ignore their whining ... most men know what they are, they have already looked into the core of their being and know what exists there ... a coward, or not ... More examples of what I was talking about. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Gray Guest" wrote in message 44.100... "Scout" wrote in : You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) While that is true, you also get increased velocity and much better projectile design. I have some 158gr unjacketed Hollow Points +P, Winchester, I think, that are supposed to be effective out of a short barrel. Sort of an event in the airweight, very controlable in the 2.5" M19. Yep, but a soft lead pellet typically does a pretty good job particularly when you're hitting them with multiple examples at the same time. -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Gray Guest" wrote in message 44.100... "Scout" wrote in : "RD Sandman" wrote in message ... "Scout" wrote in : "BDK" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. Leave it to Johnny Kook to pick a POS like a Bond Arms 2 shot. Dozens of better guns out there. Depends on what you're after. On a shot per shot basis, the .410 is going to deliver more to target. effectively ten 30 caliber pellets to target in the time it takes to pull the trigger twice. A .410 handgun round contains 8 or 9 pellets if it is a #4 shot. That's about right, the problem is you lose space because the pellets are staggered. Thus a lot of the shell capacity is empty air. It contains 3 pellets if it is 000 which is approximately .36 caliber. Maybe a few brands, but if you look around even in 2.5" you can get 4 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=533166 and in 3" (which I believe I mentioned somewhere) you get 5 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=170759 and .36 matches up nicely with the .357 caliber of the .38 and .357. A 12ga shoots about 9 pellets in 00. Again, with the 12, you lose capacity because the pellets are staggered. In the .410 they are neatly lined up, making maximum use of the available space. Use a buffered shot and you will get a nice tight group at close ranges. Whereas the Ruger is going to take 5 trigger pulls, a reload, and than another 5 trigger pulls. Nope. Go back and revisit the .410 load fired by a Judge. Are you talking the regular Judge or the 3" Judge? One gives you 4 pellets of triple aught, the other gives you 5. The Bondarm's Century 2000 derringer, the gun under discussion, accepts up to a 3" .410 shell. Hence the 5 pellets discussed. Of course, you could also load in a .410 with 5 pellets of 0000 buck (0.375). Of course, you're probably going to need to mail order those, and I think only a few manufacturers even make them. :-) That's not to say that one is a better gun than the other, but as in so much it depends on what you're looking for it to do. Also the .410 loading is generally reported to have a fairly high 1 shot stop percentage, since you are usually effectively hitting the target multiple times in 1 shot. Three, if all impact and you are shooting 000 buck. Actually even if more than 1 hit, you will still be hitting the target multiple times. :-) However, if that's the case, odds are you didn't hit much of consequence unless you're talking the head. You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) Based on reports and testing, the rounds that produce the best one shot stops are those that produce a nice hydrostatic shock wave in the blood pressure that effectively shuts down the brain for a period of time. Now that's not to say they are going to stay down, only that they are going to drop on the first shot and stay down for a bit. Shotguns do this quite effectively since they tend to dump a large part of their energy to a broad section of the body inducing such a hydrostatic shock. This, of course, depends upon a reasonably direct impact to center mass. So it all depends on your preferences, choices, and so on. This is true. My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. True with the Bond derringer, not so with a Taurus Judge or the S&W. Well, I wasn't intending this to be an in-depth review of all the variations, only contesting Dudu's immediate and apparently arbitrary dismissal of the Century 2000 as being unsuitable for self defense, and challenging each of his talking points to establish that. About the only point that was really valid was the accuracy issue, but at self defense ranges a gun doesn't need to be particularly accurate hence my noting it as pretty much a moot point. Honestly, after several years of looking at derringers and some of the absurd calibers they come in, I find it hard to fault the choice of any lightweight J frame. The more serious calibers are often as wide and nearly as long and always weigh more. Mine hides very well and while reloading isn't really an issue at close range (IMO) reloading a derringer can be a PITA. I bought some Speed Strips and I can carry the J-Frame and 2 Speed strips very comfortably. I really only would carry it if the 908 or G-19 was impractical for some reason, though. Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't mean a derringer in .410 is the automatically bad choice Dudu tried to assert. You have your preferences, I have mine, Dudu has his, and John has his. But a .410 is a proven performer. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
On 9/29/2011 12:47 AM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 9/28/2011 10:12 PM, Scout wrote: "Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. That assumes many things which aren't necessarily true. I don't know, personal experience has taught me that there are quick fixes. The biggest bully in the world, if I can get access to him, when he is away from his gang, and I with the proper tool(s), can be fixed in damn short order ... cut off the head, the snake dies, it may wither a bit, but it dies ... Like I said above, his comment makes a number of assumptions that aren't necessarily true. One of which you just illustrated. A gun is a fabulous tool, however, experience, cunning, stealth, intelligence, purpose, motivation, etc., these are all equally important ... a single man with the "righteousness of God" in his heart and soul can be an amazing thing to witness -- a group of such men brought the whole british empire to its' knees and established America ... masters, in fear of their slaves, will always down play the importance of even a single man, let alone the awesome powers which exist in a group of such men, men who were not born to be slaves simply ignore their whining ... most men know what they are, they have already looked into the core of their being and know what exists there ... a coward, or not ... More examples of what I was talking about. Yes, I was agreeing with you, I didn't realize my statements could be taken differently ... Regards, JS |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. That last one.. "..but don't carry a gun around.." is where you demonstrate you're not clued in. The so-called "Wild West" was a much safer place to be than cities on the East Coast during the same period, and that includes the wild and wooly gold and silver mining towns in Nevada and California. And the difference is a simple one. On the East Coast, the people were disarmed and defenseless In the "Wild West" people were armed, willing and able to defend themselves. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. yawn More ignorant and superficial bigotry. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. What's your excuse ? |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. What "professionals are those ? And what makes you presume that we (allegedly) NON "professionals - only have handguns ? - are less capable that those alleged "professionals" Not to mention that there is no guarantee that all those "professionals would align themselves with an abusive government. But people could 'take it back'. I mean 'the real life', the communities, local affairs, education and so forth. It is all about people and how they behave. People should know, that certain things are not allowed and should not be done. And what are those things are are "not allowed and should not be done" Do give us a list.. Drugs of all sorts feed the 'bad guys', so you should try to avoid any drugs - at least not pay for them. This because the money for the drugs goes into the wrong canals and supports the criminals and unwanted behaviour. Any person without a shelter is a thread to public health. So it is mandatory to allow every person access to soap and water, some sort of housing and food. Any kind of toxic waste should be removed from public places, to allow kids safe play in their neighbourhood. Public land should be accessible. Even farmland should be allowed to enter for pedestrians, that just want to pass. To create a strong society based on civil affairs, the industry and the smaller companies had to be protected. The Americans fought endless wars without apparent reason and without apparent benefit. Feel free to list those wars that Americans fought "without apparent reason and without apparent benefit." Many think, these wars are somehow good for America. Who is "Many" and HOW many are those "many" ??? Just so we can figure out what we're dealing with here ? But - for example- what kind of benefit do you expect from the invasion of Afghanistan, Somalia, Irak? It always ends like Vietnam: with a lot of dead soldiers and no real gain. Afghanistan was to attack and destabilize the Taliban At the time, becoming a major force force in creating radical Islamofascists. Somalia was at the time supposed to be an aid mission that was badly planned and executed Iraq was a multiple level play a) limit and ultimately get rid of Saddam b) Send a message to Iran and others that they are NOT invulnerable because they are far from the US c) an opportunity to destroy a whole bunch of jihadists d) curb local mullahs e) Come to the aid of the Kurds and southern Iraqis who were being massacred wholesale by Saddam. Just to name a few... Maybe you need to study up a bit before you come back to spout more of your simplistic cant. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 9/28/2011 4:40 PM, Scout wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:30:19 -0400, "Scout" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, Which you get from one round of .410 triple aught buck (3" shell) I can get 5 shots on target. And reload in about 2 seconds. Get, the .410 can do the same thing in about 50ms, and do it again 50ms later. better reload time Really? You think you can reload the cylinder of that revolver faster than you can fire the other barrel of that derringer? A derringer is an inaccurate piece of junk. Ruger makes an infinately better gun. How accurate do you need to be at a typical distance of under 15 feet? much more accurate. I suspect the .410 would be suitably accurate for any reasonable self defense range. So unless you think you will have time to group your shots, The higher accuracy is pretty much moot. .357 or 38 P+ hollowpoints at close range you only need one or two anyway. At close rates the typical .410 takes only one. The other 3 are extra. Then they really aren't relevant. The SP101 is truly a remarkably accurate gun for a snubby. Which means exactly nothing at close quarters combat since extreme accuracy isn't a significant factor since you don't take the time to aim properly anyway. I can shoot the same size groups with that as I can with any handguns. Sure....do you suppose your attacker is going to wait until you get in position, fix your stance, and line up your sights? Do you realize you sound very negative here? ROFLOL! Anyone who does NOT practice "point-shoot" techniques for self-defense is doing the wrong thing Self-defense shooting has to be instinctive point shooting. You will not have time to get into the right position, bring your weapon to eye-level and aim carefully.. You must literally point your weapon and pull the trigger. That means practicing regularly UNAIMED shooting at distances under 10 yards |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
Am 29.09.2011 08:24, schrieb Gray Guest:
Thomas wrote in news:9ei6ptFeh9U1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. But people could 'take it back'. I mean 'the real life', the communities, local affairs, education and so forth. It is all about people and how they behave. People should know, that certain things are not allowed and should not be done. Drugs of all sorts feed the 'bad guys', so you should try to avoid any drugs - at least not pay for them. This because the money for the drugs goes into the wrong canals and supports the criminals and unwanted behaviour. Any person without a shelter is a thread to public health. So it is mandatory to allow every person access to soap and water, some sort of housing and food. Any kind of toxic waste should be removed from public places, to allow kids safe play in their neighbourhood. Public land should be accessible. Even farmland should be allowed to enter for pedestrians, that just want to pass. To create a strong society based on civil affairs, the industry and the smaller companies had to be protected. The Americans fought endless wars without apparent reason and without apparent benefit. Many think, these wars are somehow good for America. But - for example- what kind of benefit do you expect from the invasion of Afghanistan, Somalia, Irak? It always ends like Vietnam: with a lot of dead soldiers and no real gain. TH The "professionals" only prevail if you fight them on their terms. Has no one heard of Sun Tzu? 'The art of war' old Chinese philosophy of government. But anyhow: there is a difference between a person and a country. I have trouble to understand the idea, that people think, they have to defend themselves against the own government. I mean, not only with words, but with real guns. Ain't these professionals the own soldiers? How could soldiers even consider to fight against their own people? They get brainwashed, for sure. But even zombies on drugs would remember, were they came from. Or is that about money? Well, 'rip off the pharao' was the favourite game of the Egyptian 'priests'. Or are there religious motives? TH |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
DOJ Says No Guns For Medical Marijuana Patents
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=314024 Marijuana = Mary Jane.Mary Jane, do juana? cuhulin |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
Am 29.09.2011 08:25, schrieb John Smith:
On 9/28/2011 10:12 PM, Scout wrote: "Thomas Heger" wrote in message ... Am 28.09.2011 23:05, schrieb Gray Guest: Thomas wrote in news:9eh1fuFakeU1 @mid.individual.net: Am 28.09.2011 01:29, schrieb John Smith: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! Civil war in the US would be really terrible. (And I have doubt, that such handguns would be the weapons of choice.) Better would be to prevent havoc. I think, that violence isn't the right way. People would better try to reacquire control about all elements of the society: the communities, politics, education, health-care, nutrition, transportation, military and even entertainment. In all these fields, there are people involved, that do not want their country destroyed. But there are also 'bad guys', that like misery, violence, sickness and dirt. If you want nicer people, you had to clean your (personal!) environment, remove the rubble, overpaint the graffiti, disallow drug trafficking, rethink education, watch less tv, cook your own food, walk, smile - but don't carry a gun around. To regain control you need to start with local affairs and reorganise, what is in reach. Do not let any dubious character have any influence on any public office. To identify such persons is difficult, but some characteristics you certainly don't want to have at - say - a teacher. For example membership in any sort of 'secret society' is definitely not acceptable or massive tattoos, drug consume, sexual disorder, known violence or extremistic political opinions. Such persons are generally a threat to more 'usual' people, because they are too boring for their sick brains. TH The resort to violence however is sometimes thrust upon people. The evil, the criminal and the aggressor has their own aganda. No amount of conciliation can deter them, only answering kind with kind. You are refered to the 1930s for an example of wooly headed peace with honor stupidity and where it led. Had Europe stood up to Hitler any time between 1936 and 1938 the conflagaration of 1939 to 1945 could have been avoided. Sometimes a small amount of preemptive violence is preferable to large amounts of avoidable violence. The armament of the American society is most likely the greatest stumbling block for globalistic self-proclaimed fascistic elite. But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. That assumes many things which aren't necessarily true. I don't know, personal experience has taught me that there are quick fixes. The biggest bully in the world, if I can get access to him, when he is away from his gang, and I with the proper tool(s), can be fixed in damn short order ... cut off the head, the snake dies, it may wither a bit, but it dies ... A gun is a fabulous tool, however, experience, cunning, stealth, intelligence, purpose, motivation, etc., these are all equally important ... a single man with the "righteousness of God" in his heart and soul can be an amazing thing to witness -- a group of such men brought the whole british empire to its' knees and established America ... masters, in fear of their slaves, will always down play the importance of even a single man, let alone the awesome powers which exist in a group of such men, men who were not born to be slaves simply ignore their whining ... most men know what they are, they have already looked into the core of their being and know what exists there ... a coward, or not ... Well, I understand what you mean, but this is not, what I wanted to say. (If you intend to fight a real fight against armoured vehicles, than you need a little more 'punch' than a handgun.) I do not understand the idea itself. How could people consider this could be necessary? I'm German, but I'm really interested in this question, because it seems not very plausible to me, that people feel, they need to defend themselves against the own government. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"Scout" wrote in news:j6182n
: "Gray Guest" wrote in message 44.100... "Scout" wrote in : "RD Sandman" wrote in message ... "Scout" wrote in : "BDK" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:29:19 -0700, John Smith wrote: .410 buck (or a choice), .357/.38 .... good obama blaster, criminal public servant controller, etc. Could stop 'em from stealing you SW radio, golf clubs, other guns, or save your arse when you wake up to the conspiracy and the conspirators want you silenced! http://bondarmsusa.com/ (make sure you watch the video!) Would even fit in the san fransicko boys' purses! Regards, JS **** that. This is a much better weapon. http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/index.html Five shots, better reload time, much more accurate. Leave it to Johnny Kook to pick a POS like a Bond Arms 2 shot. Dozens of better guns out there. Depends on what you're after. On a shot per shot basis, the .410 is going to deliver more to target. effectively ten 30 caliber pellets to target in the time it takes to pull the trigger twice. A .410 handgun round contains 8 or 9 pellets if it is a #4 shot. That's about right, the problem is you lose space because the pellets are staggered. Thus a lot of the shell capacity is empty air. It contains 3 pellets if it is 000 which is approximately .36 caliber. Maybe a few brands, but if you look around even in 2.5" you can get 4 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=533166 and in 3" (which I believe I mentioned somewhere) you get 5 pellets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=170759 and .36 matches up nicely with the .357 caliber of the .38 and .357. A 12ga shoots about 9 pellets in 00. Again, with the 12, you lose capacity because the pellets are staggered. In the .410 they are neatly lined up, making maximum use of the available space. Use a buffered shot and you will get a nice tight group at close ranges. Whereas the Ruger is going to take 5 trigger pulls, a reload, and than another 5 trigger pulls. Nope. Go back and revisit the .410 load fired by a Judge. Are you talking the regular Judge or the 3" Judge? One gives you 4 pellets of triple aught, the other gives you 5. The Bondarm's Century 2000 derringer, the gun under discussion, accepts up to a 3" .410 shell. Hence the 5 pellets discussed. Of course, you could also load in a .410 with 5 pellets of 0000 buck (0.375). Of course, you're probably going to need to mail order those, and I think only a few manufacturers even make them. :-) That's not to say that one is a better gun than the other, but as in so much it depends on what you're looking for it to do. Also the .410 loading is generally reported to have a fairly high 1 shot stop percentage, since you are usually effectively hitting the target multiple times in 1 shot. Three, if all impact and you are shooting 000 buck. Actually even if more than 1 hit, you will still be hitting the target multiple times. :-) However, if that's the case, odds are you didn't hit much of consequence unless you're talking the head. You need to fire both barrels in a Bond 2 shot to equal the number of rounds in an SP-101. Uh, an SP-101 in .38/.357 only holds 5 rounds. That's equal to the number of pellets of triple or quad aught buck in a 3" shell. So you would have to fire until empty, reload, and then empty again, your SP101 to get an equal number of lead pieces headed downrange to match those produced by 2 pulls of the Bond's trigger. :-) Based on reports and testing, the rounds that produce the best one shot stops are those that produce a nice hydrostatic shock wave in the blood pressure that effectively shuts down the brain for a period of time. Now that's not to say they are going to stay down, only that they are going to drop on the first shot and stay down for a bit. Shotguns do this quite effectively since they tend to dump a large part of their energy to a broad section of the body inducing such a hydrostatic shock. This, of course, depends upon a reasonably direct impact to center mass. So it all depends on your preferences, choices, and so on. This is true. My biggest objection would be the weight of the piece which IMO makes it less of a carry piece. On the other hand it's flat which again IMO makes it easier to conceal than a revolver. True with the Bond derringer, not so with a Taurus Judge or the S&W. Well, I wasn't intending this to be an in-depth review of all the variations, only contesting Dudu's immediate and apparently arbitrary dismissal of the Century 2000 as being unsuitable for self defense, and challenging each of his talking points to establish that. About the only point that was really valid was the accuracy issue, but at self defense ranges a gun doesn't need to be particularly accurate hence my noting it as pretty much a moot point. Honestly, after several years of looking at derringers and some of the absurd calibers they come in, I find it hard to fault the choice of any lightweight J frame. The more serious calibers are often as wide and nearly as long and always weigh more. Mine hides very well and while reloading isn't really an issue at close range (IMO) reloading a derringer can be a PITA. I bought some Speed Strips and I can carry the J-Frame and 2 Speed strips very comfortably. I really only would carry it if the 908 or G-19 was impractical for some reason, though. Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't mean a derringer in .410 is the automatically bad choice Dudu tried to assert. You have your preferences, I have mine, Dudu has his, and John has his. But a .410 is a proven performer. Undoubtedly, I have merely stated my preference. Dogmatism amongst gun owners is amusing and frequently annoying. Especially when paired with innaccurate information. 8) -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
Small gun, the serious protection you need ...
"SaPeIsMa" wrote in
: But these arms are not to be used, because in a real fight, the professionals are better off than you with a handgun. What "professionals are those ? And what makes you presume that we (allegedly) NON "professionals - only have handguns ? - are less capable that those alleged "professionals" Not to mention that there is no guarantee that all those "professionals would align themselves with an abusive government. One of Murphy's Laws for Grunts states: "Professionals are predictable. But the world is full of amatures". Meaning, I suppose, that you can predict what a professional will do based on his training. But the amatures are unpredictable, which gives them a certain advantage. -- Words of wisdom What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage. |
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