In article ,
says...

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...D622CE9F579F09
&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?

Is it important to providing over the phone tech support?

On Oct 12, 11:49*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:









In ,
* . net *wrote:

"Alan *wrote in message
...
In ,
John *wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
* *John * wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John * wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...

Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for
Windows
or for Linux.

Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?

Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not
must be a fool...

It's a cultural standard, today.

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...

Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac

snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.

LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

For the Non-Techies : PC -vs- Mac
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...pare/pc-vs-mac

non-tech-r-i ~ RHF

On 10/13/11 12:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 7:04 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 1:49 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you
do not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.


That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

With every passing quarter of increased Mac sales, that 'short period'
keeps getting longer. There's not one single mfg of wintel boxes that
wouldn't give a nut for Apple's sales and profits these days.



Just think how much apple is envying microsofts and even linux share of
market ... MAC has marketing hype to attempt to capture market share
with. PCs have speed, economics, diversity of apps and utilities, vast
access to freeware/shareware, superior hardware, etc.

While hype has been stunningly successful in some applications, it is
always short lived ...

To me, it is quite obvious, you simply argue a losing and mistaken
point(s) ... weather by ignorance or design is the only question I have ...

Regards,
JS

For the last few years Apple has been growing in all phases of what they
do. And growing profits at an alarming rate. And while I'm sure Apple
wouldn't turn down market share if the profits grew the same, I'm also
as sure they aren't interested in the market share at any cost attitude
that seems prevalent in the wintel world.

Apple is delivering a fine, premium product at a premium price and the
consumer with some money sees it as a value proposition.


--
Lloyd

On 10/13/2011 10:16 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 12:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 7:04 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 1:49 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform
...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware
and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any
crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean,
like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you
do not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.


That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

With every passing quarter of increased Mac sales, that 'short period'
keeps getting longer. There's not one single mfg of wintel boxes that
wouldn't give a nut for Apple's sales and profits these days.



Just think how much apple is envying microsofts and even linux share of
market ... MAC has marketing hype to attempt to capture market share
with. PCs have speed, economics, diversity of apps and utilities, vast
access to freeware/shareware, superior hardware, etc.

While hype has been stunningly successful in some applications, it is
always short lived ...

To me, it is quite obvious, you simply argue a losing and mistaken
point(s) ... weather by ignorance or design is the only question I
have ...

Regards,
JS

For the last few years Apple has been growing in all phases of what they
do. And growing profits at an alarming rate. And while I'm sure Apple
wouldn't turn down market share if the profits grew the same, I'm also
as sure they aren't interested in the market share at any cost attitude
that seems prevalent in the wintel world.

Apple is delivering a fine, premium product at a premium price and the
consumer with some money sees it as a value proposition.



Well yeah, they sell an iphone and ireader and other trinkets to the
indians, and slaves ... I view the conversation here as being focused on
MACs and PCs, although for "MAC people" to possibly have a leg to stand
on, they are going to have to attempt to toss everything else in,
including mice, phones, the kitchen sink, the apple on the top of a MAC
laptop, case style, etc.

Or, simply put, they must divert the discussion away from the
superiority of the PC to the hype and BS of MAC ... in a nut shell, MAC
sucks in comparison. This point made, all which is left is the
discussion as to why that is so ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ...
do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and
start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the
MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...D622CE9F579F09

&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play
video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults
can't ...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?


But, I will ... you can make book on that.

Regards,
JS


Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can
be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up
seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the
capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you
probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some
prompting to seek a cure ..

Regards,
JS


BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he

http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php

Excerpt from that:

"Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit
(GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. "

Regards,
JS

On 10/13/11 12:41 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 10:16 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 12:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 7:04 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 1:49 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform
...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of
religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows
from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware
and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any
crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean,
like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you
do not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.


That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and
have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

With every passing quarter of increased Mac sales, that 'short period'
keeps getting longer. There's not one single mfg of wintel boxes that
wouldn't give a nut for Apple's sales and profits these days.



Just think how much apple is envying microsofts and even linux share of
market ... MAC has marketing hype to attempt to capture market share
with. PCs have speed, economics, diversity of apps and utilities, vast
access to freeware/shareware, superior hardware, etc.

While hype has been stunningly successful in some applications, it is
always short lived ...

To me, it is quite obvious, you simply argue a losing and mistaken
point(s) ... weather by ignorance or design is the only question I
have ...

Regards,
JS

For the last few years Apple has been growing in all phases of what they
do. And growing profits at an alarming rate. And while I'm sure Apple
wouldn't turn down market share if the profits grew the same, I'm also
as sure they aren't interested in the market share at any cost attitude
that seems prevalent in the wintel world.

Apple is delivering a fine, premium product at a premium price and the
consumer with some money sees it as a value proposition.



Well yeah, they sell an iphone and ireader and other trinkets to the
indians, and slaves ... I view the conversation here as being focused on
MACs and PCs, although for "MAC people" to possibly have a leg to stand
on, they are going to have to attempt to toss everything else in,
including mice, phones, the kitchen sink, the apple on the top of a MAC
laptop, case style, etc.

Or, simply put, they must divert the discussion away from the
superiority of the PC to the hype and BS of MAC ... in a nut shell, MAC
sucks in comparison. This point made, all which is left is the
discussion as to why that is so ...

Regards,
JS

LOL! Even disregarding everything except the Mac computers, you haven't
got a leg to stand on! Mac COMPUTER sales are up and growing, and have
been for years, AND they are selling at a premium price 'cause they are
a premium product, AND they are making great profits off them.

None of that applies to the current wintel market which is shrinking,
with shrinking prices, and shrinking profits. Profits shrinking so bad
that HP is looking at getting out of the wintel PC market just like IBM
did years ago.


--
Lloyd

On 10/13/2011 11:00 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 12:41 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 10:16 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 12:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 7:04 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/13/11 1:49 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform
...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of
religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am
retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows
from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware
and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the
fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any
crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean,
like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you
do not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ...
the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.


That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and
have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

With every passing quarter of increased Mac sales, that 'short period'
keeps getting longer. There's not one single mfg of wintel boxes that
wouldn't give a nut for Apple's sales and profits these days.



Just think how much apple is envying microsofts and even linux share of
market ... MAC has marketing hype to attempt to capture market share
with. PCs have speed, economics, diversity of apps and utilities, vast
access to freeware/shareware, superior hardware, etc.

While hype has been stunningly successful in some applications, it is
always short lived ...

To me, it is quite obvious, you simply argue a losing and mistaken
point(s) ... weather by ignorance or design is the only question I
have ...

Regards,
JS

For the last few years Apple has been growing in all phases of what they
do. And growing profits at an alarming rate. And while I'm sure Apple
wouldn't turn down market share if the profits grew the same, I'm also
as sure they aren't interested in the market share at any cost attitude
that seems prevalent in the wintel world.

Apple is delivering a fine, premium product at a premium price and the
consumer with some money sees it as a value proposition.



Well yeah, they sell an iphone and ireader and other trinkets to the
indians, and slaves ... I view the conversation here as being focused on
MACs and PCs, although for "MAC people" to possibly have a leg to stand
on, they are going to have to attempt to toss everything else in,
including mice, phones, the kitchen sink, the apple on the top of a MAC
laptop, case style, etc.

Or, simply put, they must divert the discussion away from the
superiority of the PC to the hype and BS of MAC ... in a nut shell, MAC
sucks in comparison. This point made, all which is left is the
discussion as to why that is so ...

Regards,
JS

LOL! Even disregarding everything except the Mac computers, you haven't
got a leg to stand on! Mac COMPUTER sales are up and growing, and have
been for years, AND they are selling at a premium price 'cause they are
a premium product, AND they are making great profits off them.

None of that applies to the current wintel market which is shrinking,
with shrinking prices, and shrinking profits. Profits shrinking so bad
that HP is looking at getting out of the wintel PC market just like IBM
did years ago.



Well, I think there has been a fair representation, here, of most what
can be said on the subject ... indeed, anyone reading just this thread
will be aware of the important points to consider before purchase ...
since I am sure everyone wants to respect everyone else in their making
the important decision of which platform will properly be able to
support the apps and uses they will be utilizing ...

Or, simply, looks pretty cut-and-dried to me ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/13/11 11:14 AM, John Smith wrote:

Well, I think there has been a fair representation, here, of most what
can be said on the subject ... indeed, anyone reading just this thread
will be aware of the important points to consider before purchase ...
since I am sure everyone wants to respect everyone else in their making
the important decision of which platform will properly be able to
support the apps and uses they will be utilizing ...

Or, simply, looks pretty cut-and-dried to me ...

So if I understand correctly, the summary version is that everyone
should use a Windows-based PC because someone on USENET says so. Got it.

- x.

///Woooo Lawdy, tell them about it, Mope///
Yeah, Sang, I will.Apple is good for designers and architecs and film
makers and designing animations.Very few programs for novices or
business people.
///Dats Dat.Who Dat say they are going to beat them Saints?///
Missy Sippy, Sang, Missy Sippy, Dats Who!
///Choi Ka Oie!///
cuhulin

"BAR" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

In article ,
BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote:
In
,
says...

In ,
Alan wrote:

In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:



That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of
form
[over] substance


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the
original
Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300,
IIRC).
Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base
even
after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an
exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative,
then
that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer,
in
this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If
nobody
were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the
market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a
whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a
fashion
thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All
the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on
windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative
types
are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a
"fashion
thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college
students
in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own
free
will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either.

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5%
four
years ago?

Intel won.




Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is
a tad
bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is
just
as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper
education
and/or a virus/malware scanner ...

If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X
is
surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of
Linux.

It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use.

Keep trying. The world runs on Windows.

Keep trying - increasingly it does not. Check Apple's rapidly growing
market share. More importantly, I can tell you more and more college
students in technical fields like science and engineering are using Macs
these days. Programming in Matlab, Maple, Mathematica is the norm now,
and they all run perfectly on OS X. Plus they get all the benefits of OS
X in other applications, too. When these kids hit the job market, the
trend will simply continue.

I can tell you that at my large international corporation we are still
not embracing Apple on the desktop. We are running Windows and Linux and
we will soon be running dumb tubes, throw back to the 70's, on the
desktop. There is no reason to put a high dollar, high end computer on
everyone's desktop to run e-mail, surfing, and spreadsheets and
documents.

We are embracing the iPad primarily because we can use it to get to VMs
and because we can run web enabled applications. You can effectively
take your desktop anywhere. These are the only two requirements of a
"pad" that we need. As soon as something cheaper than the iPad is
available we will officially support that and may even provide it to our
users.

The desktop only needs to be a tube, keyboard, and mouse with a
connection to our network.

Amazon is supposedly coming out with a $200 dollar upgrade to the Nook that
will go directly against the IPad.
It will be running Android and will be open architecture.
Time to start looking at a short on Apple