On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 20:32:01 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

You are welcome to present evidence that computers purchased as
components and then assemble form any significant fraction of personal
computer sales...


Don't have to, anyone not living under a rock knows it ... it is
self-apparent ... one would have to stick their head in a hole to miss it.

Ahh, a religious belief.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:44:54 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but
their share in that expanding market is decreasing.

Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop
market. Which arguments are correct?

Both.

Could you explain how the market for desktop computers can be both
expanding and shrinking?

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On 10/15/2011 6:47 PM, Don Kirkman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:04:46 -0700, John
wrote:

The rest of what you had to say, bad decisions, paying too much for a
home, etc. ... well ya', that is covered in "Life 101." If you missed
that class, problems will keep arising until you do take that class! ...
don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for over valued
property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc.

You ignore the people who were *told* they could afford the houses
they bought. People with a duty to be diligent--brokers, financiers,
investment houses, all assured them that they deserved a good house
and by heck they could afford one because they were given them a real
bargain.

Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the house,
don't buy it... yet ...

But if you're assured that you can afford it, who is the real culprit
here?

Ah yes, the old Liar Loans...

The only "qualification" for the loan was could you fog a mirror? If you
were breathing, you qualified.

On 10/16/11 10:01 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:22:53 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

However, they are often willing to buy component built systems because they
are better or cheaper than named PC packages.
Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

We still have a few around here, almost all sole owner/operator. No
employees at all.

--
Lloyd

On 10/16/11 10:09 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:44:54 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but
their share in that expanding market is decreasing.

Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop
market. Which arguments are correct?

Both.

Could you explain how the market for desktop computers can be both
expanding and shrinking?

The overall desktop market is shrinking. But Apple's isn't, it just
isn't growing as much as their laptop market is.

--
Lloyd

"D. Peter Maus" wrote in
:

On 10/15/11 17:47 , Don Kirkman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:04:46 -0700, John
wrote:



The rest of what you had to say, bad decisions, paying too much for
a home, etc. ... well ya', that is covered in "Life 101." If you
missed that class, problems will keep arising until you do take that
class! ... don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for
over valued property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc.

You ignore the people who were *told* they could afford the houses
they bought. People with a duty to be diligent--brokers, financiers,
investment houses, all assured them that they deserved a good house
and by heck they could afford one because they were given them a
real bargain.

Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the
house, don't buy it... yet ...

But if you're assured that you can afford it, who is the real culprit
here?


When I bought my last house, I carefully constructed the budget.

Good plan.....

When
I got to the financing stage, every carrier I spoke with pushed like
mad to get me to take a non-traditional mortgage for far more than I'd
considered, with variable interest, balloon payments, and 'creative'
structures, all based on the assumption that 1) I'd be selling the
property at a substantial profit within 5 years and 2) incomes always
rise.

What you have is several people (real estate, financial lenders, etc..)
all wishing to get as much out of the deal as *they* possibly can. After
all, it is up to *you* to make the payments, not them.

I resisted, and stayed with a 30 year fixed at the interest that
I'd
shopped around for. And was told that rate was no longer available, so
the non-traditional was my only option.

Or a fixed at a higher rate, I presume.......

They sold it hard. "You should buy the maximum amount of house you
can possibly afford, and you can afford this."

In general, that is true.....however, not with a VRM.

"You're upwardly
mobile, you'll be selling to upgrade before the interest rates
increase and make a bundle in the process." "You won't be in the house
by the time the balloon comes due."

Yeah.......uh huh.....

Even going so far as to tell me
that at my age, a traditional 30 year fixed would simply not be
available. But that a 15 year ARM was a virtual certainty to be
approved, at nearly 50% more than I'd planned to borrow.

Interestingly, they are still out there. Your estimate of the payment
would be true. A $150K loan at, say 4.50% for 30 years would cost you
$760 P&I while that same load at the same interest rate for 15 years
would cost you $1147 P&I. Of course, your total cost of the loan would
be a lot less. $273,600 for the 30 year and $206,460 for the 15 year.

I eventually found the mortgage I wanted, at the rate I wanted, and
when things collapsed in the housing market, and the economy slowed, I
had both equity and a payment I could manage. But it was a fight to
the death to get a lender to agree to the traditional mortgage.

I have never had a problem with that.

Few go into this kind of transaction with a fierce determination to
do things his own way. Most I've encountered would be quickly swayed
by both the temptation of more house than they thought they could
afford, or the enticing finance opportunity when so reassured by the
lending agency that the risk is small, and the benefits so great.

Yep, and now you have greed on everyone's part, not just the money and
real estate portions.

Now, I'm not, by a long shot, opposed to creative financing. I've
been quite creative in financing my businesses. And a couple of really
nice cars. But only in the short term, and only for small, manageable
amounts of money. Specifically, so I'd be prepared as economic
fortunes change.

So, though I'm hardly one of those 'invade Wall Street' protest
types, who blames all ills in the universe of Man on the banking
system, I can say that I've seen first hand some of the more
underhanded, and manipulative behaviours that have led a lot of folk
down a very turbulent river.

So, yes: Who is the culprit, indeed.

Depends......could be the real estate folks, the lenders, the borrower,
or any combination of them or all three.

--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Howard wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.


Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ...

But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent
video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a
bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful
computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real
upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year.

Regards,
JS

On 10/16/2011 8:09 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:44:54 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but
their share in that expanding market is decreasing.

Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop
market. Which arguments are correct?

Both.

Could you explain how the market for desktop computers can be both
expanding and shrinking?


Most laptops cannot even handle Secondlife!

Regards,
JS

On 10/15/2011 11:03 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/15/2011 5:46 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

No, no.

Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all
personal computers sold in the last quarter.


I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete
computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends
computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can
see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total
PC market ...

You are welcome to present evidence that computers purchased as
components and then assemble form any significant fraction of personal
computer sales...


Don't have to, anyone not living under a rock knows it ... it is
self-apparent ... one would have to stick their head in a hole to miss it.

Regards,
JS

So you have nothing...


I got a nut claiming mac is cutting edge and going to take over the
world lol ... indeed, seems to be a couple of 'em!

Regards,
JS

Y'all cats better hurry up and jump over to the Apple store and get your
new Apple 4S iPhone.I don't want one, ergo I don't tote.

My old buddy is going to George Reed's funeral.Obituaries section at
http://www.clarionledger.com
cuhulin