"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have
the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd
be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy
the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the
hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in
the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year
ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local
supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker
supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly
the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take
advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand
guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little
story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then
have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder
can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage
here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor
at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide
equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and
tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter.
Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly
enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it.

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have
the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd
be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy
the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the
hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in
the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year
ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local
supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker
supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly
the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take
advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand
guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little
story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then
have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder
can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage
here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor
at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide
equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and
tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter.
Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly
enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it.

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:

...
I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year
of
the
mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech
provider.
Not
going to happen.

But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale
tech
market with consumers with a few bucks.



Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the
world,
dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their
fantasies
... roflol

Still, one must keep a foot in reality ...

Regards,
JS

In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In
that,
it
has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free
to
talk
about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world,
but
that
is being done at pathetic profit levels.

Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to
laptops.
Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost
all
applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all
the
bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar
specifications
and
build quality are all pretty much the same in cost.

Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops.

Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of
laptops
sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market


But Apple makes most of the profit...

:-)

Shows they overprice their goods....

Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that?

Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than
others......

Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me.

Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at
buying
their products.

I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works
better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in
terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well
worth it.

:-)\

And then you have a bunch more people that decide, that the extra price
really isn't worth it.


Yup. That's true. But most of them make that decision blindly; never
having actually used a Mac.

I've worked with, supported, sold, worked with, sold, and supported Macs
since about 1985. In all that time, of the people who've switched from
PCs to Macs, only one wanted to go back.

And how many didn't switch?

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ...
do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and
start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the
MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do
it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the
faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F
5
79F
09
&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things"
when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play
video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering
and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults
can't
...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior
in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this
reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch
over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning
any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their
cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ...
that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?


But, I will ... you can make book on that.

Regards,
JS


Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can
be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up
seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the
capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you
probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some
prompting to seek a cure ..

Sorry, but you're now deflecting.

You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and
linking".

Let's see a cite.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html

Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual
personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU?


GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century.

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...tting-gpu-upgr
ade
-making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again




Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do
you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously
you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why
is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two
processors are always better than one! roflol

Regards,
JS

You claimed *YOU* needed a faster GPU in order speed up YOUR compiling
and linking, John...

....and now you're producing link after link that doesn't support that
claim.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:24:05 -0700, John Smith
wrote:


Most people, when shopping, never get to the checkout with more in their
basket -- quite amazing when you consider the morons who bought homes!

The real question here, is why was there a big bubble of morons
purchasing homes? Is it possible they never heard, "BUYER BEWARE?"

roflol ... you just gotta love morons, it is always someone elses fault
they did something stupid ... next, I expect a cop to walk up to one and
ask them, "Why did u just shoot that person?" And, they reply, "He just
got in the way of my bullet -- it wasn't my fault!"

On the other hand, if we have policies that don't take into account
human nature, we should be prepared to live with the result.

If a business mandates changing passwords that are too difficult for
most people to memorize - it should be prepared for them being written
down on post-it notes.

If salesmen get bonuses for selling products you cannot deliver, be
prepared for business problems.

If bankers make short term money by selling mortgages over
conservative projected values (then pass them to others), expect a
mortgage breakdown.

Is it good for the country when stupid (or smart) people lose their
homes?

We shouldn't have policies that say "it's their fault, let them
suffer" - especially not when the whole country has to suffer along
with them.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons
wrote:

The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for
specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if
not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some
generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from
the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing.

Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to
a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact
computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my
criteria?

Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's
expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large
plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:00:42 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than
others......

Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me.

Does that same logic apply to restaurants, cars, & concert tickets?

It most certainly can.


Who determines whether a something is overpriced, if not those who
choose to buy it?

(Or is it that they shouldn't be allowed to have different choices
from you?)

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On 10/17/11 8:54 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons
wrote:

The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for
specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if
not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some
generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from
the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing.

Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to
a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact
computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my
criteria?

Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's
expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large
plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop.

Dell was literally built on the idea of just-in-time throughout its
supply chain and production line. Basically when you call Dell they are
doing a build sheet for your computer.

Other mfgs watched in awe as Dell honed that to a fine point. It was
Dell's biggest claim to fame! Of course, now the profits are really
poor in the wintel side of the computer builders and it makes that even
more important.

I worked for a couple of small computer shops and we stocked very
little. We targetted small business and schools and did very little
business with the consumer market. We found that by carrying just a
very few parts in stock, and ordering in for overnight delivery to us to
be a better way to do things.

Out new sales tended to be bulk sales, so we ordered parts for those
builds as needed. Later we moved from building our own to reselling
Compaq and other product lines. It was just a better way to go.


--
Lloyd

On 10/17/2011 6:47 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:24:05 -0700, John
wrote:


Most people, when shopping, never get to the checkout with more in their
basket -- quite amazing when you consider the morons who bought homes!

The real question here, is why was there a big bubble of morons
purchasing homes? Is it possible they never heard, "BUYER BEWARE?"

roflol ... you just gotta love morons, it is always someone elses fault
they did something stupid ... next, I expect a cop to walk up to one and
ask them, "Why did u just shoot that person?" And, they reply, "He just
got in the way of my bullet -- it wasn't my fault!"

On the other hand, if we have policies that don't take into account
human nature, we should be prepared to live with the result.

If a business mandates changing passwords that are too difficult for
most people to memorize - it should be prepared for them being written
down on post-it notes.

If salesmen get bonuses for selling products you cannot deliver, be
prepared for business problems.

If bankers make short term money by selling mortgages over
conservative projected values (then pass them to others), expect a
mortgage breakdown.

Is it good for the country when stupid (or smart) people lose their
homes?

We shouldn't have policies that say "it's their fault, let them
suffer" - especially not when the whole country has to suffer along
with them.


The truth is not in that question(s), but in the answer.

Crooks are NEVER to be tolerated, even it they have tricked and abused
the unwitting and ignorant, and the mistakes of the unwitting and
ignorant are NEVER to become the norm ... and not even if the majority
of the citizens have become so involved ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/16/2011 9:54 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ...
do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and
start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the
MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do
it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the
faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F
5
79F
09
&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things"
when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play
video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering
and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults
can't
...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior
in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this
reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch
over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning
any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their
cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ...
that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?


But, I will ... you can make book on that.

Regards,
JS


Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can
be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up
seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the
capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you
probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some
prompting to seek a cure ..

Sorry, but you're now deflecting.

You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and
linking".

Let's see a cite.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html

Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual
personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU?


GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century.

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...tting-gpu-upgr
ade
-making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again




Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do
you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously
you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why
is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two
processors are always better than one! roflol

Regards,
JS

You claimed *YOU* needed a faster GPU in order speed up YOUR compiling
and linking, John...

...and now you're producing link after link that doesn't support that
claim.


Actually, I claimed that software can be made aware of the GPU and
utilize it to speed up the processing power of ANY application, it can,
it has been, and my claims are true.

I also claimed I use software which uses these methods, and I gave an
example of software which can be obtained, by anyone, to demonstrated
the power of "what happens" when those methods are applied.

You have engaged in a personal attack and attempt to deceptively create
an argument to aid you ... duh! Worse yet, you are betting you will
find morons to assist and support your efforts ... and make me appear
answerable to you -- go abuse your wife ... obviously she must be a
willing subject, I am not, I eat morons like you ...

Regards,
JS