On Oct 8, 5:42*pm, dave wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form of
substance.

Actually, they sell reliability and ease-of-use. Macs tend to "just
work" in most cases, including many cases where Linux or Windoze
require endless geekery to get something to work.

Reliability and ease-of-use come at a price. As someone who's an ex
systems support person and completely sick of systems geekery, that
price is worth it to me. If the price isn't worth it to you, don't buy
Apple products. Simple.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA.

On 10/13/2011 3:29 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:45:12 -0700, John
wrote:

"Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit
(GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. "

We may. But the application I have which is intolerably slow is
Librarian Pro. Apparently it uses the Access database engine that
has troubles with libraries as large as mine. A faster graphics card
won't make it faster.

I wonder if I have any applications that I would notice a speed
increase with a faster graphics card.


Well, first a 3.0+ ghz processor, multicore/multithreaded, 64 bit OS,
fast frontside buss, fast memory, fast storage devices/software, buffers
created for redundant search/filing, etc. features, etc. would be the
way to go ... then, with a firm base, exploit stealing GPU cycles/time
.... if speed is really a valid need, water cooling and over clocking are
very useful techniques -- of the CPU, itself -- applications using
parallel processing, motherboards with multiple physical, and multiple
cored, processors, etc.

Also, the search/storage formats, methods, techniques, structure of data
handling is VERY IMPORTANT ... if speed is failing, you should attempt
to locate software which uses BINARY TREES in the handling of the data
.... by asking 10 questions, you can find one unique element within a
pool of over 1,000,000 ... these are some of the most fast, effective
and efficient data processing algorithms in existence, if not THE MOST
.... I am thinking, if there is a need, someone has already written it,
or is writing it ...

It is true, the application in question cannot use these advanced
techniques, unless the application has been made capable/aware by the
software engineers maintaining the app in question. It might be
possible to locate one for the use in question, inquires of those in the
field might put you on the right track -- if available. Often, I have
been employed just to find applications/software to fit some extremely
narrow slice of use ... many make a very comfortable income doing
nothing else -- only consulting on software/hardware ... it is possible
just to "ask around" and be privy to such valuable info., worth a try ...

But then, powerful video cards are usually only found in high end game
and business/production, research machines ... slapping in a high end
video card is certainly not the first, or even middle of the line,
upgrade one would first jump to ... indeed, probably the last after
every other possible upgrade and a want/need for speed is still a
necessity ...

Or, simple said, it is well beyond the needs of most casual users (BOINC
and computer games being a notable exception) ... however, valid when
comparing/benchmarking hardware capabilities ... and, as pointed out,
there are valid and valuable uses for it.

Regards,
JS

On 10/13/2011 3:50 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:
On 10/13/11 3:35 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 3:30 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:

Thanks for playing. No consolation prizes for you, I'm afraid; those
are only awarded to the trolls who bring their A-game.

- x.

You can read it yourself, in the "original content" ... means the same
now as when I wrote it, and just had to attempt to point out to you,
again ... and even the consistency of your logic prevails here ...

Frankly, you have left me with the opinion you are a 12 year old or a
severely developmentally disabled adult ... either way, I don't see much
difference between you owning a MAC, a PC, or a notepad with a pencil
.... therefore, what you argue is probably correct in "your context."

Aww. Someone needs a hug.

- x.

Well, ask someone else ... I only hug women, and my family ... sorry,
nothing personal ...

Regards,
JS

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is
that
I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business
to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can
for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even
an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always
end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do
not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.

Which you can't as shown by the performance characteristics of the card
indicated.....and 4 generations below that.



Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...E9F579F09&vers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.

And naturally if you don't need it, then no one does.

So why are they selling such cards?

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/12/2011 10:34 PM, Scout wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/12/2011 10:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about "Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's,
is that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can
for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even
an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do
not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...ue&prid=736275


By my count he has to go back 5 FAMILIES of nvidia cards before he finds
one with performance equal or less than what he produced for the Mac.

To spell that out.

GTX 590 - outperforms Mac
GTX 580 - outperforms Mac
GTX 570 - outperforms Mac
GTX 560 - outperforms Mac
GTX 550 - outperforms Mac
GTX 545 - Less performance than Mac

Quadro 4000 - $780
GTX 550 - $130
GTX 590 - $610






Actually, when I purchased my 590's, Best Buy had a sale on them, they
were under $300 a card ... so I got both of them for the price you have
there for one ... just sayin'

Yea, but it's hard to track sales and they are typically regional or
localized so it's hard to make a comparison on sale prices because it's all
but impossible to determine the lowest sale price. Street price on the other
hand is quick and easy to find.

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business
to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can
for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even
an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do
not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

On Oct 13, 4:48*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 4:19 PM, David Barts wrote:

On Oct 8, 5:42 pm, *wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form of
substance.

Actually, they sell reliability and ease-of-use. Macs tend to "just
work" in most cases, including many cases where Linux or Windoze
require endless geekery to get something to work.

Reliability and ease-of-use come at a price. As someone who's an ex
systems support person and completely sick of systems geekery, that
price is worth it to me. If the price isn't worth it to you, don't buy
Apple products. Simple.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA.

I rarely keep a machine beyond two years, then it gets the "pass me
down" to someone ... or the electronics recyclers where they pay me the
grand price of ~0.36 a pound ... video cards, memory and other
components going into the junk drawer for passing out to those in need
... I can't remember a computer ever failing me in that time, nor any
component other than a power supply, now and then, which was abused and
drew too much power through.

Reliability encompasses more than just service lifetime of the
hardware.

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

I was merely responding to "dave"'s inane comment that the only reason
anyone would purchase an Apple product is for fashion or lifestyle
reasons.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA

On 10/13/11 4:37 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 3:50 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:
On 10/13/11 3:35 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 3:30 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:

Thanks for playing. No consolation prizes for you, I'm afraid; those
are only awarded to the trolls who bring their A-game.

- x.

You can read it yourself, in the "original content" ... means the same
now as when I wrote it, and just had to attempt to point out to you,
again ... and even the consistency of your logic prevails here ...

Frankly, you have left me with the opinion you are a 12 year old or a
severely developmentally disabled adult ... either way, I don't see much
difference between you owning a MAC, a PC, or a notepad with a pencil
.... therefore, what you argue is probably correct in "your context."

Aww. Someone needs a hug.

- x.

Well, ask someone else ... I only hug women, and my family ... sorry,
nothing personal ...

That's OK; I wasn't offering. More of an observation, really.

Here, try one of these:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ki/Hug_machine

- x.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 20:01:46 -0400, BAR wrote:

What does open architecture mean?

What is needed is run any application, not just applications purchased
thru amazon.

My wife has a Nook Color and it does just about everything she needs.
The web browser is pretty good.

No computer can run any application.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison