On 12/16/2011 12:23 AM, flipper wrote:
Computers cost around 10x as much as a radio. So the extra cost of
modularising is low in percentage terms for pcs, but high for radios.
And the savings of modularisation for pcs are medium to high, but for
radios are mostly low.


Yeah, I just don't see it but, hey, if someone has the guts and
capital then that's what free enterprise is all about.

NT

Actually, I see a distinct possibility that, that may just happen.

If you examine ebay closely, you will notice the chinese and HK are
direct marketing to the USA, using NO middle man here. Like any
developing industrial nation, the life blood is innovation and "going
where no man has gone before."

Once China realize it has no need to let corps profit, here, from their
sweat there, they will have the equip. and cheap labor in place to bring
communication receivers and xmitters up to the current age, and damn
cheaply ... plus, they wont have the overhead of the "politics" and
proprietary thinking which plagues our present lazy and monopolistic
companies here ... anyway, just a possibility.

Regards,
JS

On 12/16/2011 12:39 AM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:21:58 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/2/2011 7:06 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Bottom line, for the performance/cost ratio you can't beat solid state
and a robot assembling the stuff at warp speed. And it can be done so
cheaply you're better off to chuck it and buy another one assembled at
warp speed.




NT

Yeah, like computers.

Actually, no, and that was the point. They're not 'like computers'.
...

You are gravely mistaken, top of the line contain a CPU, PLL freq
control, dynamic and static data storage (RAM & harddrive), etc., or are
simply computer controlled through USB ... indeed, they only need be a
card on the motherboard of computer ...

But I wouldn't if, like the 'modular TV' brought up elsewhere (or a
radio), each of the 'modular parts' cost darn near as much as the
whole thing. Or, put the other way, I wouldn't if I could buy a
'whole' new one for only a little more than the cost of a hard drive.


Yeah, that is the part which need fixed ...

Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio boards, low to high
end audio, right up to HD ... new dials, new readouts, new 3.0 USB
interface to a computer, etc.

If you're going to replace all that you might as well save the
interface crap and stuff the rest of the parts for a whole radio.


No, a simple receiver only need be a card in my computer, or a USB
dongle --albeit might be a large one.

Not to mention there's no reason to 'right up to' HD when the detector
isn't and the band isn't either. So you have to change all that, which
is a whole blooming radio.


I was talking HD screens on TVs ...

No, modular radio simply would be best for consumer and bad for
manufacturers ... who like very proprietary systems ...

"Like a computer," eh?

they would
scream at having to attempt with a generic radio platform which could be
just am or any combination right up to microwave bands ...

Ah yes, the good ole 'industry conspiracy' crap.

But, you did manage to mention the real truth of why it is not demanded
by consumers ... consumers are simply too stoopid to realize the
benefits and ask for them ... end of story.

I can see you're not going to be in the sales department.

Regards,
JS

Sounds like you suffer "brand loyalty" and proprietary thinking ... what
I am pointing out needs changed ...

Regards,
JS

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:13:50 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 12:39 AM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:21:58 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/2/2011 7:06 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Bottom line, for the performance/cost ratio you can't beat solid state
and a robot assembling the stuff at warp speed. And it can be done so
cheaply you're better off to chuck it and buy another one assembled at
warp speed.




NT

Yeah, like computers.

Actually, no, and that was the point. They're not 'like computers'.
...

You are gravely mistaken, top of the line contain a CPU, PLL freq
control, dynamic and static data storage (RAM & harddrive), etc., or are
simply computer controlled through USB ... indeed, they only need be a
card on the motherboard of computer ...

No, I'm not 'mistaken'. DSPs and microcontrollers are not like the
'modular computer' you were speaking of nor are the reasons and
cost/benefit ratios even remotely similar.


But I wouldn't if, like the 'modular TV' brought up elsewhere (or a
radio), each of the 'modular parts' cost darn near as much as the
whole thing. Or, put the other way, I wouldn't if I could buy a
'whole' new one for only a little more than the cost of a hard drive.


Yeah, that is the part which need fixed ...

Good luck. It's not likely to be because of the component costs,
manufacturing efficiencies, and market demand.

A hard drive, for example, is 'naturally' a 'modular component'
because the platters, motor, head mechanism, read/write electronics,
interface, and air tight enclosure are all necessary for the thing to
function regardless of any 'intent' to make it 'modular'.

On the other end, sound cards and NICs, which used to be your 'modular
components', are usually integrated onto the motherboard these days
and the trend is to do the same with the display card. AMD even
integrates these into their APU processors.

Fact of the matter is large scale integration and automated board
assembly are fantastic cost savers and, using the above examples, by
the time you consider the 'modular cost' of additional board real
estate, connectors, mechanicals, handling, stock and packaging the
on-board sound and NIC are essentially 'free', or less.

Btw, for a large chunk of consumers your 'modular computer' isn't seen
as 'modular' because even replacing the internal hard drive is a
frightening mystery and you might as well ask them to do brain surgery
on themselves as imagine they'll ever replace a motherboard.

Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio boards, low to high
end audio, right up to HD ... new dials, new readouts, new 3.0 USB
interface to a computer, etc.

If you're going to replace all that you might as well save the
interface crap and stuff the rest of the parts for a whole radio.


No, a simple receiver only need be a card in my computer, or a USB
dongle --albeit might be a large one.

Your 'simple receiver' on a card or dongle isn't a 'modular radio' and
people looking for a 'travel' receiver are going to have a hard time
backpacking a PC.

Okay, so "that's not the market." Fine. What *is* the market, how big
is it, what do they really want, and what would they pay for it?

Not to mention there's no reason to 'right up to' HD when the detector
isn't and the band isn't either. So you have to change all that, which
is a whole blooming radio.


I was talking HD screens on TVs ...

You said "Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio
boards... right up to HD"

Look, this is typical, what I call, 'engineers syndrome': fascination
with technology and 'what you could do'. That's a wonderful thing, and
necessary, but what's missing is whether it actually serves a need and
whether people would buy it.

It's also a common 'marketing survey' mistake. "Which of the following
features would you like? check box check box check box check
box " Well, hell yes I'd 'like' all those.

Add "would you pay $x for it" and the answers are usually quite
different.

No, modular radio simply would be best for consumer and bad for
manufacturers ... who like very proprietary systems ...

"Like a computer," eh?

they would
scream at having to attempt with a generic radio platform which could be
just am or any combination right up to microwave bands ...

Ah yes, the good ole 'industry conspiracy' crap.

But, you did manage to mention the real truth of why it is not demanded
by consumers ... consumers are simply too stoopid to realize the
benefits and ask for them ... end of story.

I can see you're not going to be in the sales department.

Regards,
JS

Sounds like you suffer "brand loyalty" and proprietary thinking ...

No, I'm just using my product manager hat and, as I said in another
post, I just don't see it. But maybe that's because everyone makes
little but grandiose generic claims with no specifics.

what
I am pointing out needs changed ...

Says you. The real question is how many would pay good money for what?
And I mean specifically, not "would you like a modular radio?" Hell,
yes, I'd 'like' a modular radio.

"Would you pay $??? for it?"

Well, that's another question.

Regards,
JS

On 12/16/2011 5:17 PM, flipper wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:13:50 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 12:39 AM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:21:58 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/2/2011 7:06 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Bottom line, for the performance/cost ratio you can't beat solid state
and a robot assembling the stuff at warp speed. And it can be done so
cheaply you're better off to chuck it and buy another one assembled at
warp speed.




NT

Yeah, like computers.

Actually, no, and that was the point. They're not 'like computers'.
...

You are gravely mistaken, top of the line contain a CPU, PLL freq
control, dynamic and static data storage (RAM& harddrive), etc., or are
simply computer controlled through USB ... indeed, they only need be a
card on the motherboard of computer ...

No, I'm not 'mistaken'. DSPs and microcontrollers are not like the
'modular computer' you were speaking of nor are the reasons and
cost/benefit ratios even remotely similar.


But I wouldn't if, like the 'modular TV' brought up elsewhere (or a
radio), each of the 'modular parts' cost darn near as much as the
whole thing. Or, put the other way, I wouldn't if I could buy a
'whole' new one for only a little more than the cost of a hard drive.


Yeah, that is the part which need fixed ...

Good luck. It's not likely to be because of the component costs,
manufacturing efficiencies, and market demand.

A hard drive, for example, is 'naturally' a 'modular component'
because the platters, motor, head mechanism, read/write electronics,
interface, and air tight enclosure are all necessary for the thing to
function regardless of any 'intent' to make it 'modular'.

On the other end, sound cards and NICs, which used to be your 'modular
components', are usually integrated onto the motherboard these days
and the trend is to do the same with the display card. AMD even
integrates these into their APU processors.

Fact of the matter is large scale integration and automated board
assembly are fantastic cost savers and, using the above examples, by
the time you consider the 'modular cost' of additional board real
estate, connectors, mechanicals, handling, stock and packaging the
on-board sound and NIC are essentially 'free', or less.

Btw, for a large chunk of consumers your 'modular computer' isn't seen
as 'modular' because even replacing the internal hard drive is a
frightening mystery and you might as well ask them to do brain surgery
on themselves as imagine they'll ever replace a motherboard.

Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio boards, low to high
end audio, right up to HD ... new dials, new readouts, new 3.0 USB
interface to a computer, etc.

If you're going to replace all that you might as well save the
interface crap and stuff the rest of the parts for a whole radio.


No, a simple receiver only need be a card in my computer, or a USB
dongle --albeit might be a large one.

Your 'simple receiver' on a card or dongle isn't a 'modular radio' and
people looking for a 'travel' receiver are going to have a hard time
backpacking a PC.

Okay, so "that's not the market." Fine. What *is* the market, how big
is it, what do they really want, and what would they pay for it?

Not to mention there's no reason to 'right up to' HD when the detector
isn't and the band isn't either. So you have to change all that, which
is a whole blooming radio.


I was talking HD screens on TVs ...

You said "Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio
boards... right up to HD"

Look, this is typical, what I call, 'engineers syndrome': fascination
with technology and 'what you could do'. That's a wonderful thing, and
necessary, but what's missing is whether it actually serves a need and
whether people would buy it.

It's also a common 'marketing survey' mistake. "Which of the following
features would you like?check box check box check box check
box " Well, hell yes I'd 'like' all those.

Add "would you pay $x for it" and the answers are usually quite
different.

No, modular radio simply would be best for consumer and bad for
manufacturers ... who like very proprietary systems ...

"Like a computer," eh?

they would
scream at having to attempt with a generic radio platform which could be
just am or any combination right up to microwave bands ...

Ah yes, the good ole 'industry conspiracy' crap.

But, you did manage to mention the real truth of why it is not demanded
by consumers ... consumers are simply too stoopid to realize the
benefits and ask for them ... end of story.

I can see you're not going to be in the sales department.

Regards,
JS

Sounds like you suffer "brand loyalty" and proprietary thinking ...

No, I'm just using my product manager hat and, as I said in another
post, I just don't see it. But maybe that's because everyone makes
little but grandiose generic claims with no specifics.

what
I am pointing out needs changed ...

Says you. The real question is how many would pay good money for what?
And I mean specifically, not "would you like a modular radio?" Hell,
yes, I'd 'like' a modular radio.

"Would you pay $??? for it?"

Well, that's another question.

Regards,
JS

Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible things"
shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if you say
impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

Regards,
JS

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:27:56 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 5:17 PM, flipper wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:13:50 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 12:39 AM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:21:58 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/2/2011 7:06 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Bottom line, for the performance/cost ratio you can't beat solid state
and a robot assembling the stuff at warp speed. And it can be done so
cheaply you're better off to chuck it and buy another one assembled at
warp speed.




NT

Yeah, like computers.

Actually, no, and that was the point. They're not 'like computers'.
...

You are gravely mistaken, top of the line contain a CPU, PLL freq
control, dynamic and static data storage (RAM& harddrive), etc., or are
simply computer controlled through USB ... indeed, they only need be a
card on the motherboard of computer ...

No, I'm not 'mistaken'. DSPs and microcontrollers are not like the
'modular computer' you were speaking of nor are the reasons and
cost/benefit ratios even remotely similar.


But I wouldn't if, like the 'modular TV' brought up elsewhere (or a
radio), each of the 'modular parts' cost darn near as much as the
whole thing. Or, put the other way, I wouldn't if I could buy a
'whole' new one for only a little more than the cost of a hard drive.


Yeah, that is the part which need fixed ...

Good luck. It's not likely to be because of the component costs,
manufacturing efficiencies, and market demand.

A hard drive, for example, is 'naturally' a 'modular component'
because the platters, motor, head mechanism, read/write electronics,
interface, and air tight enclosure are all necessary for the thing to
function regardless of any 'intent' to make it 'modular'.

On the other end, sound cards and NICs, which used to be your 'modular
components', are usually integrated onto the motherboard these days
and the trend is to do the same with the display card. AMD even
integrates these into their APU processors.

Fact of the matter is large scale integration and automated board
assembly are fantastic cost savers and, using the above examples, by
the time you consider the 'modular cost' of additional board real
estate, connectors, mechanicals, handling, stock and packaging the
on-board sound and NIC are essentially 'free', or less.

Btw, for a large chunk of consumers your 'modular computer' isn't seen
as 'modular' because even replacing the internal hard drive is a
frightening mystery and you might as well ask them to do brain surgery
on themselves as imagine they'll ever replace a motherboard.

Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio boards, low to high
end audio, right up to HD ... new dials, new readouts, new 3.0 USB
interface to a computer, etc.

If you're going to replace all that you might as well save the
interface crap and stuff the rest of the parts for a whole radio.


No, a simple receiver only need be a card in my computer, or a USB
dongle --albeit might be a large one.

Your 'simple receiver' on a card or dongle isn't a 'modular radio' and
people looking for a 'travel' receiver are going to have a hard time
backpacking a PC.

Okay, so "that's not the market." Fine. What *is* the market, how big
is it, what do they really want, and what would they pay for it?

Not to mention there's no reason to 'right up to' HD when the detector
isn't and the band isn't either. So you have to change all that, which
is a whole blooming radio.


I was talking HD screens on TVs ...

You said "Modularized radio and you could have dozens of audio
boards... right up to HD"

Look, this is typical, what I call, 'engineers syndrome': fascination
with technology and 'what you could do'. That's a wonderful thing, and
necessary, but what's missing is whether it actually serves a need and
whether people would buy it.

It's also a common 'marketing survey' mistake. "Which of the following
features would you like?check box check box check box check
box " Well, hell yes I'd 'like' all those.

Add "would you pay $x for it" and the answers are usually quite
different.

No, modular radio simply would be best for consumer and bad for
manufacturers ... who like very proprietary systems ...

"Like a computer," eh?

they would
scream at having to attempt with a generic radio platform which could be
just am or any combination right up to microwave bands ...

Ah yes, the good ole 'industry conspiracy' crap.

But, you did manage to mention the real truth of why it is not demanded
by consumers ... consumers are simply too stoopid to realize the
benefits and ask for them ... end of story.

I can see you're not going to be in the sales department.

Regards,
JS

Sounds like you suffer "brand loyalty" and proprietary thinking ...

No, I'm just using my product manager hat and, as I said in another
post, I just don't see it. But maybe that's because everyone makes
little but grandiose generic claims with no specifics.

what
I am pointing out needs changed ...

Says you. The real question is how many would pay good money for what?
And I mean specifically, not "would you like a modular radio?" Hell,
yes, I'd 'like' a modular radio.

"Would you pay $??? for it?"

Well, that's another question.

Regards,
JS

Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible things"
shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if you say
impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

No one said "impossible" and that's not the question. The question is
would enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is.

Regards,
JS

On 12/16/2011 7:34 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible things"
shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if you say
impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

No one said "impossible" and that's not the question. The question is
would enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is.

Regards,
JS

As the old saying, "The longest journey begins with the first step" --
paraphrased.

So is the "journey into it can't be done", one step at a time, the first
step beginning it, the journey ends with what we have now ...

Regards,
JS

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:48:50 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 7:34 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible things"
shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if you say
impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

No one said "impossible" and that's not the question. The question is
would enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is.

Regards,
JS

As the old saying, "The longest journey begins with the first step" --
paraphrased.

So is the "journey into it can't be done", one step at a time, the first
step beginning it, the journey ends with what we have now ...

Regards,
JS

As the old saying goes, "truth hurts" and the question remains, would
enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is, no matter how
much the arm waving and platitudes.

On 12/17/2011 3:44 PM, flipper wrote:

...
As the old saying goes, "truth hurts" and the question remains, would
enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is, no matter how
much the arm waving and platitudes.

Actually, I have purchased my last SW radio ... unless new life comes
in, somewhere, some time ... others mileage may vary ... most worthwhile
content can now be found on the net -- without static and fading ...

So, actually, you are quite correct, it looks to be a moot point, until
something changes ...

Regards,
JS

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:44:36 -0600, flipper wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:48:50 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 7:34 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible
things" shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if
you say impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

No one said "impossible" and that's not the question. The question is
would enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is.

Regards,
JS

As the old saying, "The longest journey begins with the first step" --
paraphrased.

So is the "journey into it can't be done", one step at a time, the first
step beginning it, the journey ends with what we have now ...

Regards,
JS

As the old saying goes, "truth hurts" and the question remains, would
enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is, no matter how
much the arm waving and platitudes.

On 12/18/2011 4:44 AM, dave wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:44:36 -0600, flipper wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:48:50 -0800, John
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 7:34 PM, flipper wrote:

...
Yeah, everything was once impossible, that number of "impossible
things" shrinks daily ... only one thing is certain in this world, if
you say impossible and live long enough, you will be proven wrong ...

No one said "impossible" and that's not the question. The question is
would enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is.

Regards,
JS

As the old saying, "The longest journey begins with the first step" --
paraphrased.

So is the "journey into it can't be done", one step at a time, the first
step beginning it, the journey ends with what we have now ...

Regards,
JS

As the old saying goes, "truth hurts" and the question remains, would
enough people want to pay the price for whatever it is, no matter how
much the arm waving and platitudes.


What? You found a AAA map with all the medical marijuana dispensaries
depicted on it, routes and location of local bong stores?

GREAT!!!!

Regards,
JS