"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:
But good luck with you quest. You'll definately need +60dB of that.

Patrick, I too was going to write something like that, but you did far
better than I could.

The point that was buried in his original posting was that he is building
an "EMP-PROOF" radio to sell to the survivalist market.

SS sets are cheap and easily obtainable.

Even a Happy Harry Home-owner type can cheaply build a
small Faraday cage to keep one in, if anticipating an EMP.

Personally I think it is a fools errand, you can't build a modern radio
similar to the high performing ones of the past at a cost anyone will pay,
since in comparison, you can buy any one of the many old radios that will do,
pay a professional to refurbish and align it, and buy several lifetimes worth
of spare parts for far less.

You'd better invest in a generator and a supply of petrol, too...

Not only that but radio collecting is a well known and liked hobby, nobody is
going to take a second look at that old transoceanic on your shelf, but
many would flip out seeing any firearm.

Your friends are all hoplophobes?

Why would anyone "flip out" when seeing a firearm?
Hell, I have one in my pocket right now, and I can see
two more from where I'm sitting. They don't look all
that spooky to me.

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?


Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far

On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?


Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of
authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to
require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the
cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a
garage sale.

Other states are currently debating this provision.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?


Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority,
today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity
of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction.
Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale.

Other states are currently debating this provision.


It's for the benefit of the *children*.

Many contagious diseases are spread by filthy money and the Brothels
just aren't sterilizing the bills like they used to. The Cocaine pushers
are far better in this respect, as they get their clients to ingest any
product left on the money.

Only anti-American terrorists use cash for purchases.

Next week I will be proposing a new 'Sterility' law which will require
all canned good to be opened for examination before being placed on the
store shelves.

Then, the mandatory installation nation wide of surveillance cameras in
the bathrooms of the Elderly. They fall a lot and the cameras would
assure a swift response by medical teams.

*SAFETY* is paramount.



mike
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On 11/11/2011 9:34 AM, m II wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?


Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority,
today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity
of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction.
Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale.

Other states are currently debating this provision.


It's for the benefit of the *children*.

Many contagious diseases are spread by filthy money and the Brothels
just aren't sterilizing the bills like they used to. The Cocaine pushers
are far better in this respect, as they get their clients to ingest any
product left on the money.

Only anti-American terrorists use cash for purchases.

Next week I will be proposing a new 'Sterility' law which will require
all canned good to be opened for examination before being placed on the
store shelves.

Then, the mandatory installation nation wide of surveillance cameras in
the bathrooms of the Elderly. They fall a lot and the cameras would
assure a swift response by medical teams.

*SAFETY* is paramount.



mike
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ROFLOL ... that is funny ...

But then, quite suddenly, you realize that the world is full of these
irrational imbeciles who really believe this stuff and would vote or
demand it "in."

The only happy point about our civilization facing the possibility of
annihilating itself is the fact it would take these *******s to a place
where they can no longer harm themselves or others ...

Regards,
JS

On Nov 12, 3:45*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?

* *Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of
authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to
require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the
cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a
garage sale.

* *Other states are currently debating this provision.

How about that. I guess the Taxation and Police authorities might like
to know how and where ppl spend their cash.

But I heard that since 911, hundreds of huge and mainly hidden
buildings housing about 2 million workers across the USA have been
quietly built and operate to filter all email traffic and phone
traffic to detect terrorists and possibly anyone other selectable
target, like people trading in OLD STUFF like old radios which consume
the same amount of electricity to run an air con unit, or 500 i-pods.
These spying centers suck in digital data like huge vacuum cleaners,
then apply a filter for key words. One wonders if such centers could
detect the next intended school shooting or Oklahoma Bombing.
The so called BLACK ECONOMY, ie, the flow of cash which can't be
traced and hence isn't taxed is one of the big reasons to try to
outlaw cash, and thus have everyone pay the transaction cost to a 3rd
party by means of the credit card. But here in Oz, cash is still
widely used, and everyone I know does not need to be told to bring
cash when paying me peanut wages for radio repairs. I explain to ppl
that average wages are 60 grand a year now, ie, $1,300 a week for the
46 weeks out of 52 ppl actually work, ie, $32.50c per hour of 40 hrs a
week.
(( Ppl get to "administer" this amount, then have to pay $10 income
tax and maybe 25 other various bribes to banks for mortage payments
and GST, and company profits etc, etc, etc, before keeping $3.25 to
buy bananas to give the banana farmer a similar amount via the system
of banana distribution so he ends up with 10c per banana. Its all far
more complex than a company boss or union rep is willing to
describe )). But a radio might take 120 hrs to fix right, and maybe I
get $600, after giving them a discount of $3,300 off the wages of
$3,900 which should be paid for 120 hours of work. Cash will be around
for awhile yet, but in 20 years perhaps goverments will try to save
money by not printing it. I'll be dead as the species of cash becomes
extinct like the lions, tigers, and elephants, and thousands of lesser
known species. Trouble may come if a government values a radio repair
transaction as being worth say $3,900 instead of $600, and taxes
people on the same rate as those earning average weekly earnings to
discourage anyone offering discounts to compete, or to survive. All
sorts of BS is possible, but so far, afaik, cash is still extremely
popular here. But in 1983, if someone wanted to extend their house,
all work valued above $10,000 had to be "declared" to prevent ppl
hiding un-seen cash income in the form of house improvements. Guess
what. Ppl just did little bits of improvements at a time and still
managed to get their house extensions approved by the govt
authorities. Bundles of notes went out of one pocket and into another
one. But in Greece, there is mastery of the cash economy, and they
have many other devious ways of keeping NOSY PARKER GOVT out of
business, and as a result, you see the mess Greece is in. Two sides to
every story.
Maybe another Great Depression might just happen. The Financial System
BEAST of the world survives because other ppl have a hand in YOUR
pocket whether you like it or not. The Beast extracts a steady trickle
of bucks to make credit flow. The trickle is like food, a small
percentage of body weight needs to be consumed by the Beast each day
to survive and if the trickle feed stops, the Beast gets very sick
indeed, thus giving everyone the ****s in a big way. Departments of
taxation and Criminal control departments of governments around the
world are part of the Beast. Beastly health is mostly desirable, but
colly wobbles can now be heard.

And there is a gigantic building here worth a billion or two being
built at high speed for ASIO, the Oz branch of CIA equivalent, right
here in town. Maybe it'll have about 3,000 ppl employed to keep a
watch on what everyone else is doing, saying, typing, and sending, and
its only "one small step" to knowing what everyone is thinking, and a
"giant leap for mankind" to control thinking.

From what I see, everyone wants a cheap deal and they don't care about
your wages, just their own.
Ppl don't care about the environment of anyone or anything living more
than 5km away from themselves.
Most ppl don't really mind being spied on.
And many will happily spy on everyone else.
Its going on, and people ain't rioting in the streets about it.

Patrick Turner.

On 11/11/11 17:38 , Patrick Turner wrote:
On Nov 12, 3:45 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?

Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of
authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to
require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the
cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a
garage sale.

Other states are currently debating this provision.

How about that. I guess the Taxation and Police authorities might like
to know how and where ppl spend their cash.


Actually, it's more sinister than that.




But I heard that since 911, hundreds of huge and mainly hidden
buildings housing about 2 million workers across the USA have been
quietly built and operate to filter all email traffic and phone
traffic to detect terrorists and possibly anyone other selectable
target, like people trading in OLD STUFF like old radios which consume
the same amount of electricity to run an air con unit, or 500 i-pods.
These spying centers suck in digital data like huge vacuum cleaners,
then apply a filter for key words. One wonders if such centers could
detect the next intended school shooting or Oklahoma Bombing.
The so called BLACK ECONOMY, ie, the flow of cash which can't be
traced and hence isn't taxed is one of the big reasons to try to
outlaw cash, and thus have everyone pay the transaction cost to a 3rd
party by means of the credit card. But here in Oz, cash is still
widely used, and everyone I know does not need to be told to bring
cash when paying me peanut wages for radio repairs. I explain to ppl
that average wages are 60 grand a year now, ie, $1,300 a week for the
46 weeks out of 52 ppl actually work, ie, $32.50c per hour of 40 hrs a
week.
(( Ppl get to "administer" this amount, then have to pay $10 income
tax and maybe 25 other various bribes to banks for mortage payments
and GST, and company profits etc, etc, etc, before keeping $3.25 to
buy bananas to give the banana farmer a similar amount via the system
of banana distribution so he ends up with 10c per banana. Its all far
more complex than a company boss or union rep is willing to
describe )). But a radio might take 120 hrs to fix right, and maybe I
get $600, after giving them a discount of $3,300 off the wages of
$3,900 which should be paid for 120 hours of work. Cash will be around
for awhile yet, but in 20 years perhaps goverments will try to save
money by not printing it. I'll be dead as the species of cash becomes
extinct like the lions, tigers, and elephants, and thousands of lesser
known species. Trouble may come if a government values a radio repair
transaction as being worth say $3,900 instead of $600, and taxes
people on the same rate as those earning average weekly earnings to
discourage anyone offering discounts to compete, or to survive. All
sorts of BS is possible, but so far, afaik, cash is still extremely
popular here. But in 1983, if someone wanted to extend their house,
all work valued above $10,000 had to be "declared" to prevent ppl
hiding un-seen cash income in the form of house improvements. Guess
what. Ppl just did little bits of improvements at a time and still
managed to get their house extensions approved by the govt
authorities. Bundles of notes went out of one pocket and into another
one. But in Greece, there is mastery of the cash economy, and they
have many other devious ways of keeping NOSY PARKER GOVT out of
business, and as a result, you see the mess Greece is in. Two sides to
every story.
Maybe another Great Depression might just happen. The Financial System
BEAST of the world survives because other ppl have a hand in YOUR
pocket whether you like it or not. The Beast extracts a steady trickle
of bucks to make credit flow. The trickle is like food, a small
percentage of body weight needs to be consumed by the Beast each day
to survive and if the trickle feed stops, the Beast gets very sick
indeed, thus giving everyone the ****s in a big way. Departments of
taxation and Criminal control departments of governments around the
world are part of the Beast. Beastly health is mostly desirable, but
colly wobbles can now be heard.

And there is a gigantic building here worth a billion or two being
built at high speed for ASIO, the Oz branch of CIA equivalent, right
here in town. Maybe it'll have about 3,000 ppl employed to keep a
watch on what everyone else is doing, saying, typing, and sending, and
its only "one small step" to knowing what everyone is thinking, and a
"giant leap for mankind" to control thinking.

From what I see, everyone wants a cheap deal and they don't care about
your wages, just their own.
Ppl don't care about the environment of anyone or anything living more
than 5km away from themselves.
Most ppl don't really mind being spied on.
And many will happily spy on everyone else.
Its going on, and people ain't rioting in the streets about it.


They will. About 2 hours after it's too late.

Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

Eddystone dials are a similar thing.

The market has to be a mix of nostalgia and survival mentality. Yes,
a solid state radio can be made EMP proof, or highly resistant, but it
takes some doing.




As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

As an aside, any "survivalist" with half a brain has buried a couple
of solid state complete radios as well as a pile of surplus
semiconductors useful post-Blast in old ammo cans. A stash of common
bipolar and FETs, silicon diodes, common chips for radios and whatnot,
buried under ground could be more valuable than gold and at a hell of
a lot lower current acquisition price today. Some discussion on which
types would be interesting.

I don't consider myself a survivalist but I have a couple of guns and
some ammo buried along with a couple of full jerry cans of 100LL avgas
(it doesn't go bad) and some electronic stuff, plus some garage sale
Craftsman tools, some spools of wire from a motor shop (short ends),
and a couple things I won't mention. Better safe than sorry I figure.

On Nov 16, 2:18*am, wrote:
*Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

*First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

*Eddystone dials are a similar thing.

*The market has to be a mix of nostalgia and survival mentality. Yes,
a solid state radio can be made EMP proof, or highly resistant, but it
takes some doing.

*As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

*Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

*As an aside, any "survivalist" with half a brain has buried a couple
of solid state complete radios as well as a pile of surplus
semiconductors useful post-Blast in old ammo cans. A stash of common
bipolar and FETs, silicon diodes, common chips for radios and whatnot,
buried under ground could be more valuable than gold and at a hell of
a lot lower current acquisition price today. *Some discussion on which
types would be interesting.

*I don't consider myself a survivalist but I have a couple of guns and
some ammo buried along with a couple of full jerry cans of 100LL avgas
(it doesn't go bad) and some electronic stuff, plus some garage sale
Craftsman tools, *some spools of wire from a motor shop (short ends),
and a couple things I won't mention. Better safe than sorry I figure.

....so all this taken into consideration ... How much will this NEW
TUBED RADIO cost to build ? Ten -to-fifteen grand ?? Or a hell of a
lot more than that ???

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, wrote:

Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

You're making too much of an assumption. The cheap receivers used off the
shelf parts. But better ones used custom parts. Design is a tradeoff,
and using off the shelf bandswitch meant layout was determined by the
switch. Making their own, they could do what was needed for best design,
the cost might be higher but it's offset by ease in the rest of the
layout. Which is why you can't make a bandswitch that will fit all the
receivers from even one manufacturer.

There were Eddystone dials because the company made them for their
receivers and then happened to sell them as parts. Hammarlund made parts,
they were well known for their capacitors. National sort of, but then
they had Millen as a sort of manufacturing arm.

But if you wanted to use the bandswitch from the Hammarlund SP-600, you'd
have to follow the layout and design very carefully, since the turret
bandswitch was a key part of the receiver.

You're stuck with how many bands the receiver had, you're stuck with their
layout, you're stuck with using the same sort of design as the original
receiver.

A bandswitch is troublesome, and bulky, and in good receivers, expensive.
Which is why when solid state came along, there was a trend to do as much
bandswitching through DC as possible so the switch just had to control DC
and didn't have to be near the circuitry. Hence diodes were used as
switches. Relays sometimes. People saw that the cost of an active device
was so low, it was cheaper to duplicate oscillators than use a bandswitch
to switch coils and crystals. There again, it looks like a bad move cost
wise, but if the benefits are sufficient, then it's a good move. The
bandswitch becomes simpler (so no special part needed), the layout becomes
simpler.

Ray Moore once had an article in Ham Radio about receiver design. It was
nominally a description of a mostly AM broadcast band receiver he'd built.
But he made the point that a commercial receiver has to cut costs, since
each component is multiplied by however large the run is. For someone
making their own receiver, the cost of an extra bypass capacitor is only
five cents, or whatever, and no overhead on that extra capacitor. It's
simpler to add components if it makes the design simpler, rather than cut
components and deal with the issues. So having three IF stages rather
than two is not that big a deal cost wise for the home builder, but having
those three stages running at less gain than if there were two makes
layout simpler.




As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

Those are horrible models for the homebuilder.

They were exceptional receivers, but they are also built like tanks. The
more expensive the receiver, the more shielding there is inside (in part
because it's good design, but likely also a reflection of their more
complicated design). Some of those receivers are awful to repair, since
you have to pull out layers and layers of pieces to get to the section you
need to deal with. Some of that is fallout from the need for a central
bandswitch.

You can't duplicate them unless you are willing to make copies, which are
beyond what most are capable of.

Michael

You're making too much of an assumption. *The cheap receivers used off the
shelf parts. *But better ones used custom parts. *Design is a tradeoff,
and *using off the shelf bandswitch meant layout was determined by the
switch. *Making their own, they could do what was needed for best design,
the cost might be higher but it's offset by ease in the rest of the
layout. *Which is why you can't make a bandswitch that will fit all the
receivers from even one manufacturer.

There were Eddystone dials because the company made them for their
receivers and then happened to sell them as parts. *Hammarlund made parts,
they were well known for their capacitors. *National sort of, but then
they had Millen as a sort of manufacturing arm.

But if you wanted to use the bandswitch from the Hammarlund SP-600, you'd
have to follow the layout and design very carefully, since the turret
bandswitch was a key part of the receiver.

You're stuck with how many bands the receiver had, you're stuck with their
layout, you're stuck with *using the same sort of design as the original
receiver.

Which was good, basically. Hallicrafters was profitable-see Ed
Romney's discussion in his book. We want 500 kHz to 30 MHz in four or
five bands, which was de rigeur for general coverage receivers.


A bandswitch is troublesome, and bulky, and in good receivers, expensive.
Which is why when solid state came along, there was a trend to do as much
bandswitching through DC as possible so the switch just had to control DC
and didn't have to be near the circuitry. *Hence diodes were used as
switches. *Relays sometimes. *People saw that the cost of an active device
was so low, it was cheaper to duplicate oscillators than use a bandswitch
to switch coils and crystals. *There again, it looks like a bad move cost
wise, but if the benefits are sufficient, then it's a good move. *The
bandswitch becomes simpler (so no special part needed), the layout becomes
simpler.

Ray Moore once had an article in Ham Radio about receiver design. *It was
nominally a description of a mostly AM broadcast band receiver he'd built..
But he made the point that a commercial receiver has to cut costs, since
each component is multiplied by however large the run is. *For someone
making their own receiver, the cost of an extra bypass capacitor is only
five cents, or whatever, and no overhead on that extra capacitor. *It's
simpler to add components if it makes the design simpler, rather than cut
components and deal with the issues. *So having three IF stages rather
than two is not that big a deal cost wise for the home builder, but having
those three stages running at less gain than if there were two makes
layout simpler.

Can you cite the article? It'd be informative. I can get it from the
library.


As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

Those are horrible models for the homebuilder.

They were exceptional receivers, but they are also built like tanks. *The
more expensive the receiver, the more shielding there is inside (in part
because it's good design, but likely also a reflection of their more
complicated design). *Some of those receivers are awful to repair, since
you have to pull out layers and layers of pieces to get to the section you
need to deal with. *Some of that is fallout from the need for a central
bandswitch.

You can't duplicate them unless you are willing to make copies, which are
beyond what most are capable of.

* * Michael

The S/Line was not "built like a tank", but it was innovative and of
good quality. The R-390s and the A-line approach that designation much
more closely, as do Stoddart RI-FI measuring receivers and certain
Mackay Marine and Racal sets. S/Line was inspired by Art Collins'
purchase of a M series Leica camera, well built but also stylish and
compact. There was in fact a company that DID clone S/Line, except the
cabinetwork was kludgy by comparison. This is analogous to the Hickok
and Jetronix clones of Tek tube scopes-they weren't quite as good but
still way better than service grade scopes.