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#72
August 19th 03, 10:54 PM
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"erniegalts" wrote in message ... Much worse at AM frequencies, of course. AM band runs from around .53 to 1.6 Mhz, or 530 to 1600 Khz. So for an AM station at 1000 KHz or 1 MHz, the resonant length would be 75/1 = 75 metres. One foot = 0.3048 metres, so 75 * .3048 = 22.86 feet, the length of your resonant vertical, so if you mounted it dead center in the metal roof of your vehicle, the vehicle would have to be 45.72 feet wide. Oops... You got your math backward here.. the correct computation would be 75 (length in meters) x 3.28 (feet per meter)= 246.06 feet for a 1/4 wave radiator at 1 MHz (not adjusting for velocity factor). |
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#73
August 20th 03, 12:57 AM
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined: It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons. That's NOT the FCC says. Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading the entire question pool right now. Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it says: "If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best chance of getting a useful answer" "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." "If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on any frequency to provide assistance." This is all under subelement T1E KB9WFK "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
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#74
August 20th 03, 04:01 AM
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:57:25 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined: It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons. That's NOT the FCC says. Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading the entire question pool right now. Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it says: "If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best chance of getting a useful answer" "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." "If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on any frequency to provide assistance." This is all under subelement T1E KB9WFK There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB or most other two way services. ================================================ To quote from one of my earlier posts: From: Subject: OT: CB Radio's Date: 2000/06/03 Message-ID: #1/1 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:50:15 EST Newsgroups: misc.survivalism ------------------------------------------------ MAYDAY (Distress) = Indicates that a ship, aircraft or other vehicle is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance. PAN (Urgency) Indicates that the calling station has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle, or the safety of a person. SECURTIE (Safety) Indicates that the station is about to transmit a message concerning the safety of navigation or giving important meteorological warnings. ---------------------------------------------- "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' "_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_ (Truth is mighty and will prevail). {erniegalts} {Australia} {misc.survivalism} |
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#75
August 20th 03, 08:32 AM
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:16:59 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, erniegalts whined: There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB or most other two way services. It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. If memory serves me right, the charges were eventually reduced or dropped, but he never did get his equipment back. Whatever the outcome, the FCC made it very clear that transmitting out of band was a bad thing to do and they would make your life miserable for awhile. |
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#76
August 21st 03, 04:41 AM
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"Never anonymous Bud" wrote:
It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
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#77
August 21st 03, 11:14 PM
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That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS. Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES. There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state when out of your state. |
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#78
August 22nd 03, 01:00 AM
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:14:26 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS. Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES. There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state when out of your state. Let me quote again the ARRL reference for taking the FCC test. "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." ***EVEN OUTSIDE THE AMATEUR BANDS*** As this is a Federal law there can be no local or state laws that supercede it. KB9WFK "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
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#79
August 22nd 03, 03:22 AM
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In article , Ross Archer
wrote: I would think that when blacked-out, there would be little need for communicating.  Amen. If one is out of communication, one is out of communication. This focus on how people can "communicate with their loved ones," which is what I hear many here and in the press talking about, is bull****. You'll be home when you get home. Period. Such was it in during the Punic Wars, the Crusades, WW II, and the War Against Some Terrorists. Yeah, those at home may feel some anguish. So? Not a survival issue. If your goal is to just keep in touch with friends and family, a GMRS or even FRS radio may be your only realistic option. Very limited range. Not at all useful when family lives in suburban New Jersey and affected party is in Manhattan. Or familiy is in Riverside and affected party is in downtown LA. Better to just not worry. "I'll be home when I can. Don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, trying to call, when such calls do me no good whatsoever." --Tim May |
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#80
August 23rd 03, 02:07 AM
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:41:15 GMT, Dwight Stewart
wrote: "Never anonymous Bud" wrote: It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Interesting technical & legal point, but the law can be like that. So, for the fun of it, lets introduce more license categories: Assume, for a start, a military radio operator, various amateur license categories, CB licensees, emergency service personnel such as ambulance, police, fire, etc. Just who is or isn't allowed to use available transceivers under various circumstances? No, not trying to be "difficult" here. For practical purposes, it might not make any real difference in a real emergency, but it might be interesting to know how the regulations actually read in various countries and guidelines by the ITU. At the extreme of "any means" does this mean that anyone can rig an untuned spark gap transmitter to "call for help" whether he holds any sort of license or not? Yeah, I know, I specialize in difficult questions, and often being correct. One of the reasons why some people on misc.survivalism hate me. :-) erniegalts Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
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