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Jeff Renkin wrote: CW wrote: This whole argument is pointless. The code requirement will be eliminated. No thinking person would dispute that. You would think so, wouldn't you? Yet this thread proves that people are either not thinking, or their way of thinking makes no ****ing sense. (Since the FCC says you can now use the word "****ing" on radio and TV, then we can now use it on newsgroups too.) The only reason we still have it now is international agreement. And that finally is now gone. So the real reason we have it now in the US when other countries got their act in gear and already eliminated it, is that in the US government moves really slow unless it is something unimportant like renaming french fries to freedom fries, that they can move really fast on legislating. I firmly believe that if people feel that a code requirement is necessary, that they should go ahead and require it. Right, those that want to learn the code should by all means learn it. Those that want to use microphones and don't like to use code, don't have to learn it. But what about affirmative action? Since people who didn't want to use code had to learn it all this time, perhaps now the government should make those that want to use code to learn something else they don't like before they can get licenses now. You know, just like the reverse discrimination and racism of affirmative action to make up for the past mistakes. I say if you want to use morse code on HF, you have to learn and be tested on Egyptian Hieroglyphics. You are truely an idiot. |
The point just keeps flying over your head. What if someone kept
saying to you, if you want a driver's license, you have to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? Actually Jeff, you don't get the point. Crap, why the hell can't any of you just concentrate and deal with that point before you avoid it and jump to something else??? When you get the license for HF amateur operation, you get privileges that include code. No, you have the privileges to use code on VHF and UHF if you want to and don't ever have to pass a code test. In case you are not aware, parts of those bands are set aside for code as well. Code proficiency is part of the requirement. It was part of the requirement to get a technician's class license too, wasn't it? But that was dropped, right? It would have been dropped all across the board for every class of license, but the international agreement between countries was the ONLY reason it had to stay with the HF licenses. Now that the world finally got to vote on this, they did away with the requirement. The requirement is NO LONGER. Other countries were quick to remove the requirement from their local laws, the US is just very slow at changing laws. It will happen, it just takes a government like ours months of boring useless discussion to come to an obvious conclusion. Have you ever watched C-span? Then you would know how ****ed up our government is. Code does happen to represent a significant part of HF operation. So does voice. It has to do with demonstrating you know what you are doing in areas that are pertinent to the license. "Knowing what you are doing" is a technical reasoning since you are dealing with equipment that can cause interference and even death if not used properly. Not knowing how to send morse code properly is not going to interfere with any other licensed services or cause anyone to die. Now, try to answer this without avoiding it.... What if to get a driver's license, you had to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? |
Jeff Renkin wrote: The point just keeps flying over your head. What if someone kept saying to you, if you want a driver's license, you have to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? Actually Jeff, you don't get the point. Crap, why the hell can't any of you just concentrate and deal with that point before you avoid it and jump to something else??? When you get the license for HF amateur operation, you get privileges that include code. No, you have the privileges to use code on VHF and UHF if you want to and don't ever have to pass a code test. In case you are not aware, parts of those bands are set aside for code as well. Code proficiency is part of the requirement. It was part of the requirement to get a technician's class license too, wasn't it? But that was dropped, right? It would have been dropped all across the board for every class of license, but the international agreement between countries was the ONLY reason it had to stay with the HF licenses. Now that the world finally got to vote on this, they did away with the requirement. The requirement is NO LONGER. Other countries were quick to remove the requirement from their local laws, the US is just very slow at changing laws. It will happen, it just takes a government like ours months of boring useless discussion to come to an obvious conclusion. Have you ever watched C-span? Then you would know how ****ed up our government is. Code does happen to represent a significant part of HF operation. So does voice. It has to do with demonstrating you know what you are doing in areas that are pertinent to the license. "Knowing what you are doing" is a technical reasoning since you are dealing with equipment that can cause interference and even death if not used properly. Not knowing how to send morse code properly is not going to interfere with any other licensed services or cause anyone to die. Now, try to answer this without avoiding it.... What if to get a driver's license, you had to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? What if to learn Morse code, you finally had to pull your head out of your ass Jeff? The sound would probably equal that of Krakatoa erupting! Steve Holland, MI Proficient in Morse code. |
Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the requirement.
Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a de facto "intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required some committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium). What I think worries everyone is that without this requirement, the bar will be lowered to the extent of becoming glorified Citizens Band radio. And that would be a shame. -- Stinger "N8KDV" wrote in message ... Jeff Renkin wrote: The point just keeps flying over your head. What if someone kept saying to you, if you want a driver's license, you have to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? Actually Jeff, you don't get the point. Crap, why the hell can't any of you just concentrate and deal with that point before you avoid it and jump to something else??? When you get the license for HF amateur operation, you get privileges that include code. No, you have the privileges to use code on VHF and UHF if you want to and don't ever have to pass a code test. In case you are not aware, parts of those bands are set aside for code as well. Code proficiency is part of the requirement. It was part of the requirement to get a technician's class license too, wasn't it? But that was dropped, right? It would have been dropped all across the board for every class of license, but the international agreement between countries was the ONLY reason it had to stay with the HF licenses. Now that the world finally got to vote on this, they did away with the requirement. The requirement is NO LONGER. Other countries were quick to remove the requirement from their local laws, the US is just very slow at changing laws. It will happen, it just takes a government like ours months of boring useless discussion to come to an obvious conclusion. Have you ever watched C-span? Then you would know how ****ed up our government is. Code does happen to represent a significant part of HF operation. So does voice. It has to do with demonstrating you know what you are doing in areas that are pertinent to the license. "Knowing what you are doing" is a technical reasoning since you are dealing with equipment that can cause interference and even death if not used properly. Not knowing how to send morse code properly is not going to interfere with any other licensed services or cause anyone to die. Now, try to answer this without avoiding it.... What if to get a driver's license, you had to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphics first? What if to learn Morse code, you finally had to pull your head out of your ass Jeff? The sound would probably equal that of Krakatoa erupting! Steve Holland, MI Proficient in Morse code. |
Jeff Renkin wrote in message
Actually the lowering of the speed has NOTHING to do with it. If you ARE going to learn the code, it makes more sense to learn it at the fastest speed right away. If you learn it at 5 wpm, it makes it much harder later to go faster with it. Nope, it doesn't. If that were the case, I would be in the same speed league as you. If you are going to take a 20 wpm test, and ditch the code upon passing the test, it might make sense, but to someone that intends to actually use the code, it does not. You would be a "one speed wonder" .. The first person that came along at 9 wpm would cause you to vapor lock. I started at -5 wpm and went up. Quickly. It sure didn't seem to hurt me, being I peaked at my limits of "clean" manual "paddle" keying. My abilty to send cleanly using a paddle determined my real world limit. Not my abilty to receive. I can't send cleanly with a paddle over about 55-60 wpm and thats pushing it to the edge. After that I get too sloppy for my tastes. Being I refuse to use a keyboard, which I hate, that was my limit. If I used the keyboard, I probably could have eventually hit 70-75-80 wpm. The dots are so fast at those speeds, even at 60, that you don't really listen for individual dots. You gauge from the length in ms of the string. It's almost a blur. To be a decent CW operator, you must gradually work through all the speeds. Your theory does not hold water. But to be expected from someone who doesn't work cw. Lowering the speed to 5 wpm was idiotic. As if that made it easier or something. Well, being many upgraded to extra in one fell swoop after they dropped speed, it must have made some difference if the rest couldn't get 13 or 20 wpm. Of course, I suspect the vast majority of those didn't really practice enough. Ever hear of the Farnsworth system? Duh... Learning the code is like learning a language, you hear the musical sounds of the letters and words, slowing it down only makes it harder. Slowing it down only makes it harder to keep track of previously sent letters, if head copying. That makes it harder to make words out of the copy. You have to copy behind a bit. But slowing it down does not make it harder to copy the characters. Trust me, for a rank beginner, it's easier to learn and pass 5 wpm, than it is to learn and pass 20 wpm. That is, unless they alter the proper timing, and leave huge gaps between letters on the test. And thats not 20 wpm any more. The farnsworth method teaches incorrect character spacing, and overall lousy timing. You learn lousy timing from day one, and that is no way to live. Not what I consider good. An *actual* 20 wpm at normal spacing will cause a beginner to vapor lock when they test, if they learned with the improperly spaced farnsworth method. The Farnsworth method is NOT a good method to use for people that intend to use the code in the real world. MK |
Jeff Renkin wrote in message
When you get the license for HF amateur operation, you get privileges that include code. No, you have the privileges to use code on VHF and UHF if you want to and don't ever have to pass a code test. In case you are not aware, parts of those bands are set aside for code as well. In case you are not aware, the international treaty did not include VHF. Code proficiency is part of the requirement. It was part of the requirement to get a technician's class license too, wasn't it? But that was dropped, right? In case you are not aware, it was only dropped because international treaty did not include VHF. Next...MK |
I find my self in agreement with you Stinger. The worth of anything in life
is only how hard was it to obtain? Why would anyone buy a Rolex when a Timex does the exact same thing an order of magnitude cheaper? The Rolex is a sign of achievement by the wearer. Those of us who worked to learn the code hate to see our Rolex turned in to a Timex by a group of people who can't afford a Rolex. I guess in a world where achievement is disdained, because it makes the under-achiever feel bad, the move is not unexpected. Fred W4JLE Ex V3CB V31GR (Hamming for over 47 years and still loving it!) "Stinger" wrote in message ... Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the requirement. Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a de facto "intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required some committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium). |
"w4jle" W4JLE(remove this to wrote in message
Those of us who worked to learn the code hate to see our Rolex turned in to a Timex by a group of people who can't afford a Rolex. It doesn't really bother me. The only bummer part is there will be fewer and fewer CW ops in the next years. I could really care less if they drop the code tests. With 5 wpm, for all practical purposes, they already have. I just can't stand the whiners...Whine, whine, whine....Such a waste of energy, particularly being they are wasting it in the totally wrong direction. They should tell it to the fcc, not other hams, or SWL's on NG's. It's like whining about the broken cruise control in your Ford truck at a J.C. Penny's. :/ We don't have any control over it, so whining to us is a total waste of time. It makes me laugh that someone would spend so much time and energy trying to convince people that have absolutely no control over the matter. Better than the freaking comedy channel if you ask me. MK |
I find my self in agreement with you Stinger. The worth of anything in life
is only how hard was it to obtain? Before you make such a statement, be sure to test it out by thinking first if there are any examples that blow holes through the theory as so many do. Many people would put a high value on their children, even though they were so easy to obtain, many were not even planned for. I put a high value on what I get just from sitting and doing nothing in the middle of nature, and is one of the easiest things to obtain. In fact, with many things, once the way of obtaining something is not worth the reward, no one bothers to put more effort in to something than they can get out of it. For instance, we know this is how MOST people felt about the code requirement as no one was getting licenses anymore, then when the requirement was dropped for the tech class license over a decade ago, there was a flood of new licenses, so many the FCC had a hard time keeping up with it and it took months for some to get their licenses. That is all the proof you need to prove that point. Watch again as soon as the US finally follows the other countries in officially dropping the code from their local wording the flood of applicants upgrading from Technician class directly to Extra Class in one sitting, while the code passing Generals STILL won't be able to get THEIR Extra class licenses because they can't pass the easy written multiple choice tests. Why would anyone buy a Rolex when a Timex does the exact same thing an order of magnitude cheaper? Because those people don't buy a watch so they know what time it is, they buy it to SHOW OFF and try to impress other people. Are you saying this is what people who learn the code are doing? Only an idiot pays the price of a car for a watch, when you can get a great one for under $100. If you really like the Rolex style, you can even get an exact copy for around $20 that is self winding and never needs batteries and keeps excellent time. The real question is, what kind of IDIOT spends thousands on a real Rolex when everyone is going to think it is just a fake $20 one anyway? I don't need the real one OR the fake one, my digital watch provides so much more information, like phone numbers, reminders, and all sorts of things the Rolexes can't do and for much less money. Intelligent people have a knack for reasoning things out and using common sense, something anyone who buys a Rolex is not doing. They are just throwing away a lot of money that could have been used for much better purposes. The Rolex is a sign of achievement by the wearer. Well, we know what category YOU fit in now. :) Those of us who worked to learn the code hate to see our Rolex turned in to a Timex by a group of people who can't afford a Rolex. What a **** poor analogy. How does someone else not learning code make your code learning and use of it, any less in value? See, again you are only concerned with OTHER people and not your OWN use for the code and the enjoyment you may have had learning it. Nothing is going to take that away. If I produce and build a beautiful radio with my own hands, and no one else has to build one, that doesn't take away the value of my radio to me at all. "by a group of people who CAN'T AFFORD a Rolex" This quote AGAIN shows us what type of person you are. Those that don't have rich parents like you must of had are not worth anything in life to you. We need high prices and morse code restrictions so that we can keep most of the public out of our exclusive clubs of elite snobs. God forbid that a commoner should be allowed into our hobby that didn't have to go through the "eating live goldfish" stunts first to be initiated into the jackass club at your high cost club. Again, there are many watches that do an exceptional job of keeping time for much less money, and those that foolishly waste and throw away money based on expensive name brands are idiots with no intelligence. People don't buy Bose speakers because they are good, Bose speakers SUCK! People buy them so when others LOOK at them, they will know how much money they spent (and what boobs they are that they don't know how ****ty they sound and could have gotten much better speakers for much less money! :) I guess in a world where achievement is disdained, because it makes the under-achiever feel bad, the move is not unexpected. In the old days, you didn't need to get a license to ride a horse. We didn't make licenses for cars to keep most of the public from driving a car, or pad it with worthless extra tests so that most could not pass it, but on the contrary, we make it easier for everyone (now even illegal alien criminals) to get a driver's license because the test is just so you know the rules of the road, not how to use morse code or something that you will never even use when driving. There would be no test at ALL for a driver's license if not for a few things you really do need to know before getting behind the wheel. The same thing applies to ham radio. If not for the fact that ham operators are allowed to build their own equipment and can use transmitters that are over Part 15 rules regarding output power and whatnot, there would be NO test at all!!! There is no test for CB, family service radios, or even GMRS!! Yes you need a license for GMRS, but there is no written OR code test, just send away for the license! Why? Because those people are only going to be using FCC approved equipment instead of playing around with making their own or using power outputs that are as high as what hams can use. We only need be tested on the dangers of the power we are playing with, and how to safeguard from interfering with other licensed services, and how not to kill birds and other life with our dangerous equipment. Otherwise, it would just be sending in a check and getting your ham license like with GMRS. Not knowing code doesn't seem to have anything to do with operating CB, FRS, or GMRS and it doesn't have anything to do with being able to use ham radio either. Ham radio can be used for remote control model aircraft, sending computer data, sending VIDEO pictures, and so many things that we are not tested on before getting the license. Once we have the license, if we are interested in learning one of the many areas of ham radio like using morse code, or using RC planes, we will learn them as we use them. No sense in testing EVERYONE in RC planes and Morse Code just to get the license, only the RULES and SAFETY need to be learned, the fun and games that have nothing to do with the dangers of operating RF need not be a requirement before the license is issued. You can use a morse code key incorrectly, and you won't kill anyone or cause any interference that using the code key properly wouldn't have done. But the transmitter you are using the code key with, you need to know a few things about that before turning it on and using it! We don't get tested before getting a driver's license on how to use the car to go out in the country for a picnic, or use it at a drive in movie, just the important SAFETY and RULES that go along with operating the vehicle which can be dangerous if not used properly. If there was no danger in operating a car, there would be no test, you would just pay the fee for your license. The testing is not to make it harder for people to get a driver's license!! The economy would crumble and people would not be able to get to work if there was a morse code requirement before you could get a driver's license!! And right now, in the time we can expect many more terrorist attacks on our soil (thanks to Bush) we need as many ham operators to assist in those times as they did during 9/11. The MORE hams the better! Silly worthless restrictions to keep qualified hams from helping is doing nothing more than HELPING THE TERRORISTS!! Ask any terrorist that hate the US and I am sure they will be for keeping the code requirement too! They don't want a surplus of hams being able to provide communications and aiding what they are trying to take down. The other countries are already on the ball and have dropped the code requirement, but the one country that should have been the first to do so, really seems to like endangering our lives. If not, they wouldn't keep terrorizing the middle east and getting them to retaliate on us so much. |
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