"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...

there was no place left to avoid those committees within just a few years.

My county just east of Indy has plenty of non CC&R neighborhoods. Oh wait,
how horrible it is to think people would want to live in a 25-30 year old
addition. Everyone wants to live in the 'perfect' place with no strings
attached. That is living in a fantasy world. Like I said, the Indy area is
nice. Plenty of 20-30 year old additions with good homes and no CC&R.
Though you might have to compromise on various issues (almost all these
additions have great school systems).

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:HFayb.256443$9E1.1368062@attbi_s52...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
gy.com...


Contact the ARRL. They have data that shows that antennas have NO
impact on property values.

That is the whole damn point of CC&R. Your property value doesn't mean
jack
if you cannot SELL your home. There are more people willing to look
elsewhere if my damn neighbor has some 20+ foot tower in his/her back
yard.
Again, towers can't hurt 'values' when you can't even get a person to make
an offer.

Same organization has data showing it doesn't affect the sale of homes
either.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:rQayb.257513$275.934642@attbi_s53...

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...

there was no place left to avoid those committees within just a few
years.

My county just east of Indy has plenty of non CC&R neighborhoods. Oh
wait,
how horrible it is to think people would want to live in a 25-30 year old
addition. Everyone wants to live in the 'perfect' place with no strings
attached. That is living in a fantasy world. Like I said, the Indy area
is
nice. Plenty of 20-30 year old additions with good homes and no CC&R.
Though you might have to compromise on various issues (almost all these
additions have great school systems).



Actually many people prefer the 20 to 30 year old suburb as these finally
have trees of decent size. The problem is that in some places in this
country finding an area without CCRs that will mean an unreasonably long
communte to work.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:5Dayb.252403$mZ5.1876750@attbi_s54...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

I'm curious. How much do antennas reduce property values? Is there a
formula for such things?

Why does it have to be about damn property values? I think CC&Rs are more
of a way to help make sure that when I sell my home, my neighbors have not
gotten 'lazy' or 'crazy' over the last 5-30 years and done stupid crap.
Be
it 'get into ham' and erect a stupid looking tower, put cars on blocks, or
paint their house 5 different colors. Everyone thinks that just because
property values have almost doubled (and in some cases went up 10 fold or
more) that the same thing will have in the next 20 years. Again, CC&Rs
are
to protect your investment in your home. You don't gain anything in a
home
sale if you don't sell your home. Would you offer to buy your neighbors
home if they had documented proof your antenna was scaring away buyers?



I don't know where you live, but here we have zoning laws that control
much of the issues you are concerned about; and most towns have
enacted nusiance ordinances to handle less severe problems, such
as uncut grass, etc. BTW, I live in a AAA zoned area, and the ham
tower was not an issue. I kept in at the tree line, in the middle of
the property. Out of sight. Also, at one time I had three towers near
the house. The house next door was sold before it hit the market for
the full asking price.

Pete

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...


The automobile could stay in the open carport for 30 days while being
repaired
(and there was no prohibition against working outside) or 30 days out
of
license. After that, the vehicle was in violation of the
nuisance/eyesore part
of the regs. There were also loopholes that allowed vehicles of
obvious
historical or antique interest more time while in the process of
restoration.
There was no contest of wills; the feller had the mindset of a few in
this
conversation who had absolutely no intention of abiding by what he
signed. And
we DID, by the way, require any real estate agent peddling property in
the
project to give the prospective owner a copy of the current
regulations PRIOR to
signing any binding contract.

We also had the local 8th grade students read the regulations and any
proposed
amendments. If half of the students couldn't tell us exactly what the
regulation said, it went back to the lawyer for rewrite at the
lawyer's expense.



OK, that's more reasonable than "take it away or go to court.".



Nope. And the primary purpose in my mind was NOT a reduction in
property
values. After having been a ham, elmer, and examiner for damn near 50
years, I
still find a huge tower with beam in a small-lot residential
neighborhood ugly.



I think they're cool. But I really like the Eiffel-like towers the
power company uses.



We discussed politely but firmly. We didn't tell anybody what to do.
We simply
explained what the man already knew and said what we intended to do
about it.
There was no telling anybody anything.




Jesus. Can we spell b i g o t ?????


Jim

Oh sure. And bigotry itself is still legal in the US, as it should be
in a nation which allows freedom of thought. But bigoted actions are
limited. As I understand, the courts will do nothing to enforce a race
related restrictive covanant, even if the buyer and the seller and the
local community support such restrictions. And that comes to my real
problem with Homeowner's Associations. It's not really about antennas
or old cars or knee high grass. That stuff is dealt with every day with
codes and municipal ordinances.

A Homeowner's Association is an extraconstitutional government. I have
no doubt that nearly all Homeowner's Associations are run by decent
people, including yours. But not always:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b5efc12221e.htm#38

http://www.ccfj.net/HOAartflag.html

As far as I'm concerned, any attempt to restrict such fundamental rights
as a respectful religious display or display of the US Flag ought to get
laughed out of court, just as an attempt to enforce a racial restrictive
covanant.

Frank Dresser

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:5Dayb.252403$mZ5.1876750@attbi_s54...


Why does it have to be about damn property values? I think CC&Rs are
more
of a way to help make sure that when I sell my home, my neighbors have
not
gotten 'lazy' or 'crazy' over the last 5-30 years and done stupid
crap. Be
it 'get into ham' and erect a stupid looking tower, put cars on
blocks, or
paint their house 5 different colors. Everyone thinks that just
because
property values have almost doubled (and in some cases went up 10 fold
or
more) that the same thing will have in the next 20 years. Again,
CC&Rs are
to protect your investment in your home. You don't gain anything in a
home
sale if you don't sell your home. Would you offer to buy your
neighbors
home if they had documented proof your antenna was scaring away
buyers?


OK, I'm missing something here. First I read:

"Why does it have to be about damn property values?"

Then:

"Again, CC&Rs are to protect your investment in your home."

I'm trying to see the important distinction between "property values"
and "your investment in your home".

Frank Dresser

Midwest Kid wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
gy.com...


Contact the ARRL. They have data that shows that antennas have NO

impact on property values.

That is the whole damn point of CC&R. Your property value doesn't mean jack
if you cannot SELL your home. There are more people willing to look
elsewhere if my damn neighbor has some 20+ foot tower in his/her back yard.
Again, towers can't hurt 'values' when you can't even get a person to make
an offer.

There are people that won't take a second look at your home if it isn't
the right shade of beige that would like.

You need to be living in a development where every thing is spelled
out. Others do not.

- Mike KB3EIA -

What I read into this thread is there are people in our FREE country
that have a serious need to control other people. Those people like
another poster said are classified as HOA Cops.

When it comes to controlling them they revolt.

What is an AAA zoned area?

I live in a community where the county put in zoning laws many years ago
so the members of the HOA decided to turn over our roads to the county
for maintenance, dissolve the HOA entirely. We figured why pay dues for
road upkeep and some over zealous HOA officer/member who wants to take
his/our neighbor to court for stupid things. We already pay taxes for
road up keep but the county would not enter our plan because it was
considered private property. The only county services we had where
police, fire, ambulance. Now things are going much better. We have all
the services we where paying for but didn't receive before, the HOA Cops
are gone forever and the home owners seem to getting along much better.
There are no junk cars sitting around, no one painted their house bright
pink or any other crazy color, the grass in the yards are trimmed nice,
in fact nothing has changed in that respect. There are two 25 foot
towers now, one with a small beam the other a vertical in the plan, one
is mine. Both are hams and both are involved in emergency communications
during major storms. The neighbors call or stop and get weather updates
so they can make the necessary plans. Not one person has complained
about either of the towers, not one.

By the way, the HOA ex-official moved out about 6 months after the
county took over. He found out this is America, the land of the free.
Factually speaking, his neighbors refused to have anything to do with
him because of his over powering attitude. His friends soon followed him
down the road.

God Bless our "FREE" America.




Uncle Peter wrote:

I don't know where you live, but here we have zoning laws that control
much of the issues you are concerned about; and most towns have
enacted nusiance ordinances to handle less severe problems, such
as uncut grass, etc. BTW, I live in a AAA zoned area, and the ham
tower was not an issue. I kept in at the tree line, in the middle of
the property. Out of sight. Also, at one time I had three towers near
the house. The house next door was sold before it hit the market for
the full asking price.

Pete

JW,

"Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the
rules, either don't move in or once you move in then try to
change them. If a majority of your neighbors agree, it is
changed. That's the way I learned that this country works."

DITTO THAT "JW" !

suyb... ~ RHF
- - - Simply Use Your Brain... Before Using Your Mouth !
..
..
= = = "Stinger"
= = = Wrote in message ...

Well said, Jim.

-- Stinger

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
I spent five years on the board of, and two years as the president of, a
721
home development board of directors. We had a few blowhards who, like
many in
here, told us to go to hell and parked cars on blocks and the like.

It wasn't rocket science. We voted a 30 day "take it away or go to
court." We
were impolitely told to go to hell. We didn't go to hell, we went to
court.
Not a big deal. Between the court costs and our lawyer's fees, the
blowhard had
a thousand dollar junk car project to remove. Three or four cases like
that in
the first couple of years and things got remarkably quiet, and we all got
along
like neighbors respecting the wishes of each other.

I took perverse satisfaction in stringing copper tape under the eaves of
the
house, strangely just long enough to make a quarter wave dipole for forty
meters. But it was painted with exactly the same shade that the eaves
were
painted, run with a quarter-gallon with adequate filtering, matched to the
n'th
degree, and worked the world on everything from forty on up. You could
walk
right up to it and not detect that there was an antenna of any sort.

Not to mention the 2-meter groundplane disguised as a chimney strap.
Painted
wrought-iron black and strangely so, 19 inches long. Coax? Run down a
mortar
seam and painted mortar grey. From five feet away, it was
indistinguishable
from the mortar.

I laugh at you blowhards telling us how you will do what you damn well
please
when and where you damn well please to do it. I note that none of you
have
tried it.

Clever works. Big mouths don't. And, if you don't like the rules, either
don't
move in or once you move in then try to change them. If a majority of
your
neighbors agree, it is changed. That's the way I learned that this
country
works.

Jim




..

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:HFayb.256443$9E1.1368062@attbi_s52...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
gy.com...


Contact the ARRL. They have data that shows that antennas have NO
impact on property values.

That is the whole damn point of CC&R. Your property value doesn't mean
jack
if you cannot SELL your home. There are more people willing to look
elsewhere if my damn neighbor has some 20+ foot tower in his/her back
yard.
Again, towers can't hurt 'values' when you can't even get a person to make
an offer.



A buyer is not always a rational person. They may walk away because they
don't like the landscaping or the paint job or whatever. Can you see HV
powerlines from the back yard? Want to bet how many people are certain those
cause cancer? Can you see a cellular tower nearby? Buyers don't want
"radiation". What about a next-door ham antenna? Why not be afraid of that
too? What if that big antenna blew off in a storm? It could hit your house!
And when hams transmit, they make radiation! Who wants to move in next to
some guy who makes radiation for fun?!

You can't talk power levels and ionizing versus non-ionizing, because the
buyer walks before you get that chance. Your neighbors know this, and this
makes them fearful of what might happen to them if they wanted to sell. They
don't care about your right to squirt RF into the world, all they care about
is safeguarding their own families' (perceived) health and protecting the
viability of their one big investment in life.

Some people will give up some of their personal freedom to buy into an area
that has CC&R's, so they can have some assurance that bizarre (by their
perception) things won't happen near their family and investment. And if
they enter this kind of society, they have the right to expect their HOA to
enforce the CC&R's fairly and without exception.

And, just like the USA, a HOA is not a democracy; it is much more like a
constitutional republic. Once again, the homeowner doesn't vote on each and
every issue (democracy). Rather, a board (acting for the homeowners; i.e., a
republic) is elected, and they enforce the CC&R's (the constitution). So
let's not have any more babbling about how a HOA isn't fair because it's not
a democracy.

Ed
WB6WSN