"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Pilotbutteradio wrote:

Al, I am not militant KJV only.

But MANY are.

Yes indeed.




"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...

Now, If God can so perfectly provide, protect, and promote His Word in
the KJV why can He not do the same with some other version? Also, if


He certainly can. The question is if He did, or wanted to.

It's possible some of the translations are the "strong delusion" we are
told of. However, many KJO folks throw the baby out with the bath water.


the KJV is the alpha and omega of God's Word why not tell the Wycliffe
translators to get their butts back home and save all that mission /
translation money. If the heathen want to come to God bad enough


Ah....money. I think you are on to something here.


Yes, and it goes a lot further than "a lot of folks making money off those
'perversion versions'". It might be some woman making money off selling
her KJO literature.

There are those who think this whole KJO thing goes a LOT deeper. Perhaps
by going KJO it will keep many away from ALL the other versions, including
the NASB and the Septuagint. Some think it is mainly to keep folks away
from the Septuagint.






they'll learn the English language of 1611 (almost 400 years old) so they
can read it. Never mind that some of them don't even have THEIR OWN
language in written form!


That is really the only translation work that is still needed.
Translation of the Textus Receptus into other languages. It is my
understanding that the KJV has been translated into 100's of languages
already. I don't think we need to translate Wescott and Hort or Nestle
Aland into the same languages.

Sounds like you have been reading Gail's book. Do you realize she uses
witchcraft at the very front of that book - and other places? Also that
MANY of her references are lies, at least by omission, and some by out and
out telling things that are not true?


I read the book years ago. I would not argue that she goes over the top in
places. But as you said, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater
either. I would argue for the things in the book that ARE valid and
supported elsewhere. Like the points I made above. We do have to be good
stewards, rightly dividing the word of truth.



Before God pulled me out of my rutt, I did not understand much of the
bible no matter what version I read.

Do you realize that Gail NEVER capitalizes Bible in her book - just as you
did not then?


Okay, Bible. My appologies. This is not about Gail. The Bible is spiritually
discerned. Regardless of the version, and regardless of what Gail says or
does not say in her book. If God wants you to understand it, you will. If He
does not want you to, you won't.







I read the KJV (duh...). I have spent hours with my son (11) studying
God's word in the KJ version. My son goes to a Lutheran school and is
required to learn verses in the NIV.

The NIV, though very "popular", is far from the most accurate. This is
the one Gail quotes the most but she is really after the NASB and
Septuagint.



God's truth does not change.

But words used to translate God's Word / Truth so change. Remember when
"gay" meant happy? When "get down" meant to actually get down off
something?

Yes, agreed. Just as I addressed in my previous post.




Ask the people who were closest to the action for the most accurate
account of what words meant then.

Are we trying to reach 400 year old people? Good luck. I suspect we
should be, like David, serving our own generation. I Cor. 13 speaks of
"charity" but it meant "love" when it was written. Today one thinks of a
hand out as charity.

Yes it meant love "in action".

The archaic language in the translation was not the point. The reference was
to the manuscripts and the meaning of the Greek words. Not the changed
meaning of words used to translate the manuscripts.

I have yet to see an example of where an old word in the KJ has obscured
the meaning of an important issue in the Bible. I would like to hear an
example if you have one. I do hear many who claim to be Christians, making
excuses about why they won't read the Bible. I suspect the problem lies in
the heart, not the text.



What troubles me is the REMOVAL of words and entire passages, in
addition to the items of Greek translation I mention above, and the way
the KJV is demeaned in the preface of some translations. The fact that in
just the NIV alone, there are many different versions. Some omitting this
and some qualifying that.

Yep. That's the NIV for you. Seems they have come out with a queer bible
(yes, I used lower case in THAT case) which I'm sure will leave out many
more -- and possibly add in a few. But that is THOSE Bibles. You still
don't need to throw out the good with the bad. You need to CULL.

I have an NASB here that I use as a secondary source. This is one where when
I hear things worded differently than the KJ, I have investigated the words
in question. Every time I have found the KJ to be correct IMHO. That would
include looking at the received Greek text, and Greek text based on late
1800's variety.
Again, just IMHO.




I am sad to say this truth about modern versions. There is always a
"better, more understandable" version on the bookstore shelf. Why?
Because if we copyright it, we can sell it.

This is another of Gail's and Texxe's arguments! Do you think they GIVE
their books away. NO. They are COPYRIGHTED! There are people who always
accuse you of what THEY are guilty of, and if you've been been properly
bewitched, enchanted, mesmerized, you'll never realize it.


Well I am certainly a capitalist. But I do have trouble with all of the
Christian stores around today, and you do have a point about selling other
related books. It would be hard for me to know where to draw the line there.
The commercialization of the Christian faith is sickening to me. More
because I know so many of the people involved to be pretending, and not
changed.

You must be subscribed to some Christian oriented newsgroups. Can you
recommend some?





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Pilotbutteradio wrote:


The archaic language in the translation was not the point. The reference was
to the manuscripts and the meaning of the Greek words. Not the changed
meaning of words used to translate the manuscripts.

I think if you really study it out you'll find that the Textus Receptus
/ Received Text is not all it is made out to be. Didn't someone say if
one could control history they could control the future. Part of
"history" was controlled in that manuscript.


I have an NASB here that I use as a secondary source.

That is the one I read the most. However, I also use the KJV, and
others. I'm not against the KJV, just against the idea that it is the
ONLY version that is God's Word. I also use the Amplified for its
different shades of meanings; i.e. synonyms. I read the Septuagint
because that is probably the most accurate of all the older versions and
is the one that Christ and the disciples quoted from when they quoted
the old testament - though some would have us believe it didn't come
along until 200 or 300 years after Christ. The Farrar Fenton Bible has
some very interesting aspects to it - including calling the land of
Shinar (I think this is what the KJV calls it) the Bush country, and
capitalizes Bush. He also seems to know that the "Jews" in the current
nation of "Israel" do not constitute the whole of the 12 (? 13 with
Joseph's two sons) tribes of Israel.


Well I am certainly a capitalist. But I do have trouble with all of the
Christian stores around today, and you do have a point about selling other
related books. It would be hard for me to know where to draw the line there.
The commercialization of the Christian faith is sickening to me. More
because I know so many of the people involved to be pretending, and not
changed.

Hollywood, and the movies, is full of "actors" who were first called
hypocrites. . . . Interesting!



You must be subscribed to some Christian oriented newsgroups. Can you
recommend some?

Nope. I participated some with the group that pulled out from Stair's
group. They appeared to be more interested in pulling Stair down than
lifting Christ up. If one even proposed that he preached a lot of
truth, along with all the other stuff, they were considered a "traitor"
to the group and assumed to be a spy for Stair. :-(

I did a search of the newsgroups that I have access to and came up with
65 groups that have the word "Christian" in it. I don't know of any of
them that I can recommend. They're probably mostly all taken over by
the enemies of the truth and Truth! ;-)

Interesting thoughts. I had not heard of the Farrar Fenton. My preference
will be to be able to fluently read the Bible in Greek. I am not there yet,
but there is still hope! I don't think it is particularly necessary, but I
do think it will provide some additional angles. I think you and I would
agree much more than disagree on matters of translations.

Though I have not been into any groups of late, my previous experiences were
not very satisfying. I found mostly very immature people both spiritually
and in general. Young people defending sinful behavior etc. Perhaps I should
poke around in a few and see what I find. Please let me know if you find
anything of substance in a newsgroup. Till then, there are sure plenty of
good websites to dig through, and of course the best place to be is in His
word (and His Word) ;-)


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...


Pilotbutteradio wrote:


The archaic language in the translation was not the point. The reference
was to the manuscripts and the meaning of the Greek words. Not the
changed meaning of words used to translate the manuscripts.

I think if you really study it out you'll find that the Textus Receptus /
Received Text is not all it is made out to be. Didn't someone say if one
could control history they could control the future. Part of "history" was
controlled in that manuscript.


I have an NASB here that I use as a secondary source.

That is the one I read the most. However, I also use the KJV, and others.
I'm not against the KJV, just against the idea that it is the ONLY version
that is God's Word. I also use the Amplified for its different shades of
meanings; i.e. synonyms. I read the Septuagint because that is probably
the most accurate of all the older versions and is the one that Christ and
the disciples quoted from when they quoted the old testament - though some
would have us believe it didn't come along until 200 or 300 years after
Christ. The Farrar Fenton Bible has some very interesting aspects to it -
including calling the land of Shinar (I think this is what the KJV calls
it) the Bush country, and capitalizes Bush. He also seems to know that
the "Jews" in the current nation of "Israel" do not constitute the whole
of the 12 (? 13 with Joseph's two sons) tribes of Israel.


Well I am certainly a capitalist. But I do have trouble with all of the
Christian stores around today, and you do have a point about selling
other related books. It would be hard for me to know where to draw the
line there. The commercialization of the Christian faith is sickening to
me. More because I know so many of the people involved to be pretending,
and not changed.

Hollywood, and the movies, is full of "actors" who were first called
hypocrites. . . . Interesting!



You must be subscribed to some Christian oriented newsgroups. Can you
recommend some?

Nope. I participated some with the group that pulled out from Stair's
group. They appeared to be more interested in pulling Stair down than
lifting Christ up. If one even proposed that he preached a lot of truth,
along with all the other stuff, they were considered a "traitor" to the
group and assumed to be a spy for Stair. :-(

I did a search of the newsgroups that I have access to and came up with 65
groups that have the word "Christian" in it. I don't know of any of them
that I can recommend. They're probably mostly all taken over by the
enemies of the truth and Truth! ;-)




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"Pilotbutteradio" wrote in message
...
Interesting thoughts. I had not heard of the Farrar Fenton. My preference
will be to be able to fluently read the Bible in Greek. I am not there
yet,
but there is still hope! I don't think it is particularly necessary, but I
do think it will provide some additional angles. I think you and I would
agree much more than disagree on matters of translations.

Though I have not been into any groups of late, my previous experiences
were
not very satisfying. I found mostly very immature people both spiritually
and in general. Young people defending sinful behavior etc. Perhaps I
should
poke around in a few and see what I find. Please let me know if you find
anything of substance in a newsgroup. Till then, there are sure plenty of
good websites to dig through, and of course the best place to be is in His
word (and His Word) ;-)

Why don't you guys get a room?

In article kymbd.2875$vJ.2483@trnddc05, honus1
@earthlink.net.is.invalid says...

"Pilotbutteradio" wrote in message
...
Interesting thoughts. I had not heard of the Farrar Fenton. My preference
will be to be able to fluently read the Bible in Greek. I am not there
yet,
but there is still hope! I don't think it is particularly necessary, but I
do think it will provide some additional angles. I think you and I would
agree much more than disagree on matters of translations.

Though I have not been into any groups of late, my previous experiences
were
not very satisfying. I found mostly very immature people both spiritually
and in general. Young people defending sinful behavior etc. Perhaps I
should
poke around in a few and see what I find. Please let me know if you find
anything of substance in a newsgroup. Till then, there are sure plenty of
good websites to dig through, and of course the best place to be is in His
word (and His Word) ;-)

Why don't you guys get a room?




You owe me a keyboard! LOL.

BDK

I misspelled his first name. It is Ferrar Fenton. Translated direct
from the original Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek languages. It, along with
lots of other interesting materials, is available from Destiny
Publishers, Merrimac, Massachusetts, 01860.

http://www.destinypublishers.com/

=======================

Pilotbutteradio wrote:

Interesting thoughts. I had not heard of the Farrar Fenton. My preference
will be to be able to fluently read the Bible in Greek. I am not there yet,
but there is still hope! I don't think it is particularly necessary, but I
do think it will provide some additional angles. I think you and I would
agree much more than disagree on matters of translations.

Though I have not been into any groups of late, my previous experiences were
not very satisfying. I found mostly very immature people both spiritually
and in general. Young people defending sinful behavior etc. Perhaps I should
poke around in a few and see what I find. Please let me know if you find
anything of substance in a newsgroup. Till then, there are sure plenty of
good websites to dig through, and of course the best place to be is in His
word (and His Word) ;-)

Pilotbutteradio wrote:
So is it then safe to say that you read the New World Translation?

I have. So far it's the best translation out of those I've seen.

Not affiliated with the group that publishes it, BTW.

--
Most dying mothers say, "I love you, son," or "Take care of your sister."
Why were the last words of Kerry's mother a lecture on integrity?

But you can't take the New World Translation back to the original text
with the Strong's concordance which will clear up the KJV translation
errors.
Dale

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:56:14 GMT, clifto wrote:

Pilotbutteradio wrote:
So is it then safe to say that you read the New World Translation?

I have. So far it's the best translation out of those I've seen.

Not affiliated with the group that publishes it, BTW.



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For those who'd like to learn more about the Ferrar Fenton Bible the url
is: http://ferrarfenton.com/

Wow, that is interesting. You read it but are not affiliated with the group
that publishes it. You are a first in that respect for me.

My experience with the NWT was a cursory pass to find all of the places that
it removes references to the diety of Christ. Those places are highlighted
in my copy.

Are you aware of any other translation that adds the article in John 1:1 ?
Also, are you aware of any other translation that removes references to
Christ's diety? Do you know what greek text those versions are based on?

I also wonder why you consider the NWT to be the best you have seen?
I do not want to debate the definite article here. However, I do study
different views on Christianity, and would like to hear a little more about
where you are comming from.



"clifto" wrote in message
...
Pilotbutteradio wrote:
So is it then safe to say that you read the New World Translation?

I have. So far it's the best translation out of those I've seen.

Not affiliated with the group that publishes it, BTW.

--
Most dying mothers say, "I love you, son," or "Take care of your sister."
Why were the last words of Kerry's mother a lecture on integrity?




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