If the Romans had short wave, they might have started an Empire
Service, to unite their far-flung territories. Or even a Roman Forces
Network, to provide entertainment and information to their legions.
The speculative possibilities are endless.

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
news

"Michael" wrote in message
...

So? My point was about the slow pace of technological development in
slave
societies. Neither the slave nor the slave owner has any strong
incentive
to create newer, better ways of doing things. The slave owner's surest
way
to get richer is to buy more slaves. The slave risks punishment for
failure, but will won't much benefit from success.

More than that, freedom allows far more creative minds to work on a
problem.
I suppose the small percentage of free Roman elites might have someday
devloped shortwave radio. Maybe by the year 3000 or something.

In order to accept that you would have to ignore the fact that the Romans
reigned supreme as the masters of architecture and building materials.


Yeah, but the Egyptians reigned supreme as the masters of ancient
electronics. They had batteries and were electroplating. Big deal. The
art was lost and not rediscovered 'till the after the Romans left the
scene.

The Greeks and Mayans made some impressive stoneworks, as well. If
shortwave radios could be made from piles of stone, they would have done
it
first.

The most complex of Greek architecture does not equal the sophistication of
the most complex of what the Romans built. Not even close. That is not to
diminish the tremendous and positive influence that the Greeks had on the
Romans and ultimately, the world. The Mayans could stack heavy blocks in
nice tall pyramid shapes. There was no room in any of their large
structures because they didn't have the arch or anything like it. They were
hulking piles of stone blocks with tiny rooms at the top that weren't big
enough to live in. The Mayans also out did the Romans in horrific and
bizarre human sacrifices.

Do you honestly believe the pace of innovation of a slave society can
compete with the pace of innovation of a free society? If so, how? Where
is the evidence?

Slave societies hardly innovate in a technological way. Nearly every
worthwhile invention has come in the years since the common man has had a
chance to profit from his own labors.

Yet another reference to slavery is pointless misdirection. I've already
pointed out that the US had the institution of slavery. Do you know how
many patentable inventions there were on the CSS Virginia and the Monitor
??? That was done in a slave country. Is a civilization without slavery
better ??? Yes... Sure is... Does that mean the Romans were all bad ???
No.... Does that take away from what they accomplished and left for the
world ??? According to you, yes. According to anyone else who studies
history... No. Done waste your time arguing against that.


Although they get historic accolades for law and government, they were
also
the worlds master builders. Not of useless and hulking monuments, but of
practical and powerful architecture. The stuff that lasting cultures and
civilizations are built on. A simple example of their mastery: When new
St
Peters Basilica was built, the architects had to study the dome of the
Pantheon to get their bearings.

Modern architects HAD to study the dome? Does that really mean the new
St.
Peter's Basilica couldn't be built if the Pantheon didn't exist?


No, but the fact that they did study the Pantheon speaks volumes about the
level of skill that the Romans had. It wasnt a pyramid shaped stack of
blocks. It was and still is sophisticated archetecture.

Ancient Rome was far more then slavery. You have to admit that. Many
historians feel that the Roman Empire was so successful in transmuting
its
positive components of law, government and civilization that it is
legitimate to say that it didn't really fall. It just morphed.
Fortunately, the components of slavery and blood sport didn't make it
into
Rome Mark Two; post imperial western civilization.

Law and government isn't technological innovation. The greatest advance
is
civilization was the concept that all men are created equal.

All men are not created equal. No two living things have an equal chance.
That is where law and government comes in. Law and government assures that
all men will be given equal and fair treatment under the law. Human rights
are cataloged and driven by law. Assured equality is ENTIRELY legal and
social, not natural.


The ancient world could be brutal in general. What puts the Romans above
their contemporaries is that despite the institution of slavery (and the
US
had it too !!!), they were by far the most socially, racially and
religiously inclusive of any of the ancient civilizations. Not to
mention,
extremely well founded mechanisms of law and government. Add to that,
they
built buildings, public works and founded cites 2,000 years ago that are
still functioning today.

Of course, the Romans built things to last. They had to. They were
technologically ossified.

A useless and fallacious statement.

OK, I don't seem to be making myself clear, so I'll restart from the get-go.
Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong.

Slave states are just plain immoral. The fact that many nations accecpted
the immorality of slavery doesn't make it less immoral. Yes, the US was
part of that immoral group.

Slave states have sloooooooooow technological progress. Give the Romans a
couple of hundred years and they ought to build better buildings than the
Greeks. Big deal. No era in human history has learned as much and has had
as much technological progress as the era which commenced with the beginning
with the antislavery movement in the late 18th century. This movement was
part of a larger movement which believed all people are equal in God's eyes.
Am I wrong about any of that?

If I recall correctly the Confederacy's Virginia/Merrimac was a
technologically simple, hulking ironclad. The Union's Monitor had most of
the actual technological innovations, including a rotating turret. Am I
wrong about that, as well?

Frank Dresser

What the **** is a homophobe? Whatever it is,I don't think it applies to
me.I am going and look it up.Hey,any time you want to see a Freak,just
look in your ****room mirrow.
cuhulin

"GayinCanada" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:30:08 GMT, "Honus"
wrote:


"GayinCanada" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:33:13 GMT, "Honus"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
I would much prefer to own an Italian built Shortwave Radio or any
Italian built Radio than any slant eyed chink built Radio.

Not ten seconds ago I read this from you in another post:

"I do NOT believe in Slavery and I am NOT racist either."



You tell em Honey!

Cuhulin's a homophobe. I don't think he'd appreciate you calling him by
his
pet names in public. In pubic, perhaps.



I was talking to you Horny Honus!

Ah, I know. I was just busting Cuhulin's chops a little. I see he hasn't
responded to my post. What a shame.I was really looking forward to some fun.

There...how's -that- for a straight line for you, Gay? (BTW...I still say
you aren't.)

wrote in message
...
What the **** is a homophobe?

Oh Lord. If I laugh any harder, I'll tear something internally! Either that,
or I'll soil myself.

Down, GayinCanada, down!

Here you go, my friend:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=homophobe

Whatever it is,I don't think it applies to
me.I am going and look it up.

I'm dying to hear what you think. Do you owe me an apology?

Hey,any time you want to see a Freak,just
look in your ****room mirrow.

Well, at you least you capitalized the word. Although coming from you, I'm
sure it was an accident and not an acknowledgement of my freaking
superiority.

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...
OK, I don't seem to be making myself clear, so I'll restart from the
get-go.
Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong.

Slave states are just plain immoral. The fact that many nations accecpted
the immorality of slavery doesn't make it less immoral. Yes, the US was
part of that immoral group.

Yes, you are 100 % correct here. I'm with you all the way on that one.

Slave states have sloooooooooow technological progress. Give the Romans a
couple of hundred years and they ought to build better buildings than the
Greeks. Big deal. No era in human history has learned as much and has
had
as much technological progress as the era which commenced with the
beginning
with the antislavery movement in the late 18th century. This movement was
part of a larger movement which believed all people are equal in God's
eyes.
Am I wrong about any of that?

I'm glad slavery is gone. 100 %. A slave state is a defective and immoral
state. No question. But to deny the accomplishments of a state or culture
because it had slavery is to murder the truth. When I speak of the ancient
Romans, it is always nice to remember who their contemporaries were and who
came before and after them. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Parthian, Huns
and the entire hose of other ancient cultures including just about every
classic Mesoamerican civilization had slavery. Get it ??? We are talking
about the ancient world. They all had slavery. The Romans also happened to
have a lot of positive and influential components to their civilization.

If I recall correctly the Confederacy's Virginia/Merrimac was a
technologically simple, hulking ironclad. The Union's Monitor had most of
the actual technological innovations, including a rotating turret. Am I
wrong about that, as well?

Your correct about that. The Monitor was by far the more innovative and
technical of the two. The revolving turret was the primary innovation. I'm
also going to point out, that the south developed the first "modern"
submarine called the CSS Hunley. May naval historians consider the Hunley
to be the most remarkable naval weapons development of the entire war. Sure
it killed everyone that served on it, but it was a remarkable piece of
technology. Please done insinuate me into the position of being pro
slavery. That is as far from the truth as is possible. My point is that
you cant write off chunks of history just because they came from cultures or
states that were defective. Yes, they were defective, indeed, but in the
case of the Romans, remember the times they came from and dont bother trying
to burry volumes of recorded history.

Slavery is not good. It never was and never will be. Free societies are
more conducive to technological growth. Regardless, the Romans made a huge
contribution to the future. If they never fell, it is likely that they
would have abolished slavery. During that later part of the empire, blood
sports were banned, slavery would have been too. The US abolished slavery.
Do you think that all other cultures are arrested and incapable of positive
social growth ???

Now, let me ask you.... Should we just burry the accomplishments and
influences of the Roman Republic/Empire ??? If we did that, Europe as we
know it would be a totally different place. There would be no French
language, no Italian language, no Spanish.. etc. There would also be no USA
without the Roman Republic/Empire to precede it.

And, no, I dont like slavery.

Michael

America (the name) is an Italian female name.America is the female
version of Americus,Americus Vespuci (I probally didn't spell it right)
was a map maker and nevigator on one of the Ships Christopher Columbus
was one.Christopher actually discovered Haiti and then he turned around
and sailed back to Spain.There were four Ships but one of them sank in a
storm.
cuhulin

Honus wrote:

"GayinCanada" wrote in message

There...how's -that- for a straight line for you, Gay? (BTW...I still say
you aren't.)


I understand it's Steve doing exploratory work on something he's
always been prone to. The use of alter egos to experiment with
deviation is quite common...and NO, I didn't mean to imply being
*Canadian* is in any way deviant.

He's been fascinated with both Canada and the homosexual lifestyle
ever since his stint in the US Navy. He developed his trademark "
'tard " affliction while enlisted.

It would appear that trying to yell "GUARD" while your palate is
otherwise employed is almost impossible, resulting in the muffled,
almost illegible sounding 'tard he now subconsciously uses.

I've stopped noticing it because he is unaware he's doing it. It's a
subliminal effort to get help for urges he knows he can no longer
control. Living in the Tulip Capital of the US doesn't help matters much.

Poor Steve.





mike

m II wrote:

Honus wrote:

"GayinCanada" wrote in message

There...how's -that- for a straight line for you, Gay? (BTW...I still say
you aren't.)

I understand it's Steve doing exploratory work on something he's
always been prone to. The use of alter egos to experiment with
deviation is quite common...and NO, I didn't mean to imply being
*Canadian* is in any way deviant.

He's been fascinated with both Canada and the homosexual lifestyle
ever since his stint in the US Navy. He developed his trademark "
'tard " affliction while enlisted.

It would appear that trying to yell "GUARD" while your palate is
otherwise employed is almost impossible, resulting in the muffled,
almost illegible sounding 'tard he now subconsciously uses.

I've stopped noticing it because he is unaware he's doing it. It's a
subliminal effort to get help for urges he knows he can no longer
control. Living in the Tulip Capital of the US doesn't help matters much.

Poor Steve.

Yeah, and you're still just a poor 'tard boy in CanaDuh who hasn't the sense to
figure out that you're not actually responding to me.

Go tote it, 'tard.

dxAce
Michigan
USA