From: "RHF"
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: 23 Apr 2005 05:18:00 -0700
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection

Greg,
.
If you build the Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna
as described in my post.

Okay, thanks RHF. You answered my question about grounding to the household
elec ground. At first I thought you meant it was okay to ground through the
third hole in the outlet. But it's not. So I still have to run a heavy
ground wire from the inside wall to the nearest elec ground, which would be
20 to 25 feet, up through the wall and across part of the attic.

Greg

Jack the Painter wrote:

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground system
are not meant to handle lightning surges.

(Snip)

Well, by "entertaining such ...thoughts" I guess you are referring to my
questioning whether it was safe to ground the antenna to electrical ground
when not in use. As you, and RHF pointed out, it isn't.

Drilling the patio won't help, as I still would have to run the ground wore
across the room. Drilling through the floor? Nope.

So here's the deal - I can put up the antenna, ground the coax (shield) &
"balun" at the far end, run the coax to the AC service ground (& ground
shield to it there), install lightning arrestor, then run the coax through
the attic, down the wall, and out to my NRD-525. so far, piece of cake.
Now, when when thunder storms come, I disconnect the coax from the xcvr and
do what with it? Prob. just let it hang, since the coax pretty well
grounded already?

Thanks Jack, I will check your web site.

Greg
W. Central Fla.
Lightning Capital of the U.S.

"Greg" wrote
Jack the Painter wrote:

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse
my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground
system
are not meant to handle lightning surges.

(Snip)

Well, by "entertaining such ...thoughts" I guess you are referring to my
questioning whether it was safe to ground the antenna to electrical ground
when not in use. As you, and RHF pointed out, it isn't.

Drilling the patio won't help, as I still would have to run the ground
wore
across the room. Drilling through the floor? Nope.

So here's the deal - I can put up the antenna, ground the coax (shield) &
"balun" at the far end, run the coax to the AC service ground (& ground
shield to it there), install lightning arrestor, then run the coax through
the attic, down the wall, and out to my NRD-525. so far, piece of cake.
Now, when when thunder storms come, I disconnect the coax from the xcvr
and
do what with it? Prob. just let it hang, since the coax pretty well
grounded already?

Thanks Jack, I will check your web site.

Greg
W. Central Fla.
Lightning Capital of the U.S.

Greg, you've got it. And yet you still have that dilemma that faces
thousands of hobbyists; what to do with that disconnected coax? Good news!
Since yours will now be shield grounded at the antenna base and the AC
service entrance ground rod, and a lightning arrestor providing center
conductor protection at the AC service ground rod, very little potential
exists at the end of that coax, and it should be left connected to your
radio at all times. Congratulations.

HOWEVER - you should disconnect the radio's AC power supply (from the back
of the radio) before a thunderstorm. This is because there is still a high
probability that damage from a nearby strike would be imposed on your
electrical system. Only installing fairly expensive AC surge protection
equipment can protect against this danger, and they are not available at
WalMart or Circuit City, etc. I'm not saying you can't use cheap
line-protector power strips to power your radios. But do not rely on them to
do anything except cause damage if your powerlines take a hit, or a strike
comes very close to your home, and imposes major energy on your house wiring
itself. My cost to protect from AC surge damage was over $2,000 in labor
and materials, and it cannot be done by the homeowner. So unplugging all AC
power to sensitive equipment remains an important part of lightning
protection, EVEN if you do the very sensible and safe things regarding
antenna grounding, shield grounding, lightning arrestors, etc. That part is
not very expensive at all, and provides a LOT better sleep when you don't
have worry about those feedlines entering your home.

About bonding. You are "bonded" to your home's AC power ground system when
your radio's three-prong power cord is connected. As long as your radios
have no other ground connection, that's fine. But when people bring coax
feedlines into their station, there exists the possibility that a nearby
strike (to a tree next door for instance) will cause massive ground
potential rise around your antenna and radio grounding systems. This can be
drawn up into your shack, and exit out the radios through the AC power line
(including it's third-prong ground connection). That is serious, and can be
avoided only by disconnecting the power cords before a storm. But it can
also be mitigated by running good bonding connectors from the OUTSIDE
shack-ground rod, around the house to the AC service entrance ground. Then,
ground potential rise from a nearby or direct strike will MOSTLY go the low
impedance path to your AC ground rod, and the system remains "balanced" with
no terrible potential existing between any two points. As long as there is
no exit path out the back of the radios (the AC power cord), and your coax
shield grounding is done, and arrestors guard the center-conductors of the
coax, you will be fine.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

If your house/home has any plastic pipeing at all,you can not expect any
grounding at all by grounding to the pipes.And,the water meter(s) are
made of Brass,no grounding at all can be made at those water meters.
cuhulin

wrote in message
...
www.lightningstorm.com There is another real good Lightning watch
website too.I have it in one of my many,many thousands of webtv Save
Folders thingys somewhere,or maybe I emailed it to meself.I have to
watch Fighter Squadon movie on tb now.
cuhulin

TB? Is that short for TBN, Turner Broadcasting Network? As in Ted Turner,
the guy that was married to Jane Fonda for six years? If so, then shame on
you.

From: "Jack Painter"
Organization: Cox Communications
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:13:33 -0400
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection


"Greg" wrote
Jack the Painter wrote:

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse
my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground
system
are not meant to handle lightning surges.

(Snip)

Well, by "entertaining such ...thoughts" I guess you are referring to my
questioning whether it was safe to ground the antenna to electrical ground
when not in use. As you, and RHF pointed out, it isn't.

Drilling the patio won't help, as I still would have to run the ground
wore
across the room. Drilling through the floor? Nope.

So here's the deal - I can put up the antenna, ground the coax (shield) &
"balun" at the far end, run the coax to the AC service ground (& ground
shield to it there), install lightning arrestor, then run the coax through
the attic, down the wall, and out to my NRD-525. so far, piece of cake.
Now, when when thunder storms come, I disconnect the coax from the xcvr
and
do what with it? Prob. just let it hang, since the coax pretty well
grounded already?

Thanks Jack, I will check your web site.

Greg
W. Central Fla.
Lightning Capital of the U.S.

Greg, you've got it. And yet you still have that dilemma that faces
thousands of hobbyists; what to do with that disconnected coax? Good news!
Since yours will now be shield grounded at the antenna base and the AC
service entrance ground rod, and a lightning arrestor providing center
conductor protection at the AC service ground rod, very little potential
exists at the end of that coax, and it should be left connected to your
radio at all times. Congratulations.

HOWEVER - you should disconnect the radio's AC power supply (from the back
of the radio) before a thunderstorm. This is because there is still a high
probability that damage from a nearby strike would be imposed on your
electrical system. Only installing fairly expensive AC surge protection
equipment can protect against this danger, and they are not available at
WalMart or Circuit City, etc. I'm not saying you can't use cheap
line-protector power strips to power your radios. But do not rely on them to
do anything except cause damage if your powerlines take a hit, or a strike
comes very close to your home, and imposes major energy on your house wiring
itself. My cost to protect from AC surge damage was over $2,000 in labor
and materials, and it cannot be done by the homeowner. So unplugging all AC
power to sensitive equipment remains an important part of lightning
protection, EVEN if you do the very sensible and safe things regarding
antenna grounding, shield grounding, lightning arrestors, etc. That part is
not very expensive at all, and provides a LOT better sleep when you don't
have worry about those feedlines entering your home.

About bonding. You are "bonded" to your home's AC power ground system when
your radio's three-prong power cord is connected. As long as your radios
have no other ground connection, that's fine. But when people bring coax
feedlines into their station, there exists the possibility that a nearby
strike (to a tree next door for instance) will cause massive ground
potential rise around your antenna and radio grounding systems. This can be
drawn up into your shack, and exit out the radios through the AC power line
(including it's third-prong ground connection). That is serious, and can be
avoided only by disconnecting the power cords before a storm. But it can
also be mitigated by running good bonding connectors from the OUTSIDE
shack-ground rod, around the house to the AC service entrance ground. Then,
ground potential rise from a nearby or direct strike will MOSTLY go the low
impedance path to your AC ground rod, and the system remains "balanced" with
no terrible potential existing between any two points. As long as there is
no exit path out the back of the radios (the AC power cord), and your coax
shield grounding is done, and arrestors guard the center-conductors of the
coax, you will be fine.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Okay, good information Jack. I do have surge protectors on all the
electronics, but I know that's not the best protection. Our electric
utility will install whole-house surge protection at a nominal charge per
month. I'd better get that done ASAP.

For now I'm using an active antenna in the attic. When I build one outside
I will follow your guidelines for sure.

Thanks,

Greg

From: "Honus"
Organization: Death to Spammers
Reply-To: "Honus"
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:21:53 GMT
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection


wrote in message
...
www.lightningstorm.com There is another real good Lightning watch
website too.I have it in one of my many,many thousands of webtv Save
Folders thingys somewhere,or maybe I emailed it to meself.I have to
watch Fighter Squadon movie on tb now.
cuhulin

TB? Is that short for TBN, Turner Broadcasting Network? As in Ted Turner,
the guy that was married to Jane Fonda for six years? If so, then shame on
you.

TB - telebision. It's a Mississippi thang.

Greg

From:
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:21:13 -0500
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection

Lightning often happens in the best of weather conditions.Lightning is
composed of negative and positive ions in the air.Storms or no
storms,Lghtning happens all the time just like **** happens.Lightning
puts some good things in the Air and on Earth,Nitrogen,or something like
that.
cuhulin

Cuhulin - A few years back a Tampa police detective was struck by lightning
while inside his office. It came through the window. You can bet ****
happened there!

Greg

"Greg" wrote in message
...


From: "Honus"
Organization: Death to Spammers
Reply-To: "Honus"
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:21:53 GMT
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection


wrote in message
...
www.lightningstorm.com There is another real good Lightning watch
website too.I have it in one of my many,many thousands of webtv Save
Folders thingys somewhere,or maybe I emailed it to meself.I have to
watch Fighter Squadon movie on tb now.
cuhulin

TB? Is that short for TBN, Turner Broadcasting Network? As in Ted
Turner,
the guy that was married to Jane Fonda for six years? If so, then shame
on
you.

TB - telebision. It's a Mississippi thang.

Seriously? The TB thing, I mean?

wrote in news:1114144805.607357.167380
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Thanks for the response. We just last night had another thunderstorm,
depositing plenty of noise and lightning nearby. Our house is physically
lower than the houses on either side, and the end of our yard has a very
tall Silver Maple tree, to which my random wire antenna runs from the
house. The wire ends about 7 feet from the tree trunk, and is tied to the
tree with the rubber strip that is used to hold screens in windows frames.
I fear that a strike to the tree will impart more than static to the random
wire antenna.

Perhaps you, RHF, Jack Painter, or others can comment on how to protect the
random wire from transferring a lightning strike to the tree from following
the antenna wire. As I sleep by the radio, I don't with to be awakened
writhing from a lightning strike.

Regards,

Dr. Artaud

The higher the ends above ground, the better.
You have less earth loss. There is no need to
use lightning arresters at the tips of the dipoles
to ground. If the wire were actually close enough
to ground to arc to ground, it will do it, arrester, or
not.................