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#1
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ground and antenna thoughts
Since the fun flame feast we had over lightening
protection, I thought it might be very usefull to newbies to make some points clearer then I think is common. First I don't care if anyone choses to pay the slightest bit of attention to what I say. I am only trying to pass on the help that I received from others in the past. Forget about protecting your radio and electronics. Think instead about keeping your home from burning down, or killing yourself, and your family. Lightning fires can spread as if an accelerant was used. Think about what trouble you might face if your installation was "illegal", found to violate the local or state electrical code and your insurance company may be able to refuse to pay. Refuse to pay anything. I won't bother posting links to the National Electrical Code, they are simple to find. You might want to your insurance agent, or read your insurance policy. Call your local fire department or building inspector and find out who handles electrical inspections. Call them from a payphone if you fear bringing down the harpies of code enforcement upon yourself. And ask what the rules are. Copies should be availble for public inpsection at the planing and zoning commision and/or the local library. All I can say is that in my location, there are strict rules requiring adherence to the NEC. And my insurance has a clause that clearly states that non compliant or non apporoved modifications, additions, "may result in denial of your claim". Yea and the sun might come up Friday. Any takers of a bet that they would pay? The fire marshal told me that if a non conforming installation caused a fire that caused injury or death WOULD face prosecution. Period. No exceptions. That ALL of these prosecutions have resulted in convictions. So at the very least, meet the requirements of the law. I have had two direct hits, the first vaporised the top 2' of my 108" 10mtr whip, the second vaporised my 70' #14 hard drawn antenna, the 9:1 matching tranformer, and blew the metal case to dime sized pieces, and blew holes in my burried coax. It also deprogramed most programable devices in the house, and the rear motion sensor failed. The failure might not have been related as the PIR was ~15 years old. None of my radios, PC or HiFi/TV had any damage (other then requiring BIOS resets, scanner/radio memories reprogramed and the like) I am not saying that you can save your radios,or even save your home. If one of the killer bolts that appear to be so common in FL manage to hit your home, all may be lost. As bad and sad as that would be, it would be worse to face the loss of your home insurance, a fine, and possible trial and going to jail. When I got my first SW my dad insisted that we "put up the antenna correctly, and install a "lightning protector". He went on to warn me that the protector might save the house but the radio would be ruined. And I had to disconnect my antenna anytime I wasn't listening, and to never ever listen during storms. He took the next day off, an unheard of event, the only other time I can remember him taking off was for my sister's birth, and we went to the local radio/tv parts house and bought 100' of "antenna wire" with dog bone insulators. When I married and moved from my parents home, we carefully took the antenna down. It was the antenna that got hit where I we now live. I still have the a 6" piece with the melted blob of copper that I keep on the wall below my first SW QSL card to remind of the joys and sorrows of SWL. My HF receivng antenna is at varaince withthe NEC. The electrical inspector wrote me anice letter that my departure fromt he NEC did not create any additonal risk. I also have a ltter frmo my insurance company, not the local agent, but hte home office sttaing my varience is accepted as long as "woire that enter your home are bonded as required by the NEC." A little extra effort to be sure, but well worth it. If we get nailed tonight and manage to get out alive, I will have teh cold comfort of knowing that I have not only done all I could, but htat I will face no legal of inusarnce problems. Flame me all you want, but if I can motovate one person to take the proper steps to prevent lossing their house, life or freedom I will feel good. Terry |
#2
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My HF receivng antenna is at varaince withthe NEC. The electrical inspector wrote me anice letter that my departure fromt he NEC did not create any additonal risk. I also have a ltter frmo my insurance company, not the local agent, but hte home office sttaing my varience is accepted as long as "woire that enter your home are bonded as required by the NEC." A little extra effort to be sure, but well worth it. If we get nailed tonight and manage to get out alive, I will have teh cold comfort of knowing that I have not only done all I could, but htat I will face no legal of inusarnce problems. I'd keep those letters in a safe deposit box, or at least at a different location from your home, in case the worst does happen and you need proof. |
#3
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#5
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FDR wrote: "Mark S. Holden" wrote in message ... wrote: I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably pessimistic. Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front of the polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm sure a strike could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless. In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of underground coax to get to the house. Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case there is something in there. There are differences, but even though they're insured with different companies in different states, the insurance contracts I've read for homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate form. Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show you made even a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system. The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a specific provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The company sets the terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your favor. On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and saw an antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd need to give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to try reasoning with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort to make sure the system is safe. But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a serious antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a second railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps without noticing the antennas. Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional building code violation is incredible. I'd have to concur. Unless you were so criminally negligent and put others at risk, such as tenants, I see no reason you'd be prosecuted. Also, insurance would pay your claim but then drop you. And some won't pay... not necessarily for a lightening strike but for an auto accident. A word to the wise.. don't insure with AAA. Trust me. dxAce Michigan USA |
#6
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"dxAce" wrote in message ... FDR wrote: "Mark S. Holden" wrote in message ... wrote: I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably pessimistic. Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front of the polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm sure a strike could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless. In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of underground coax to get to the house. Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case there is something in there. There are differences, but even though they're insured with different companies in different states, the insurance contracts I've read for homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate form. Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show you made even a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system. The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a specific provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The company sets the terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your favor. On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and saw an antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd need to give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to try reasoning with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort to make sure the system is safe. But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a serious antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a second railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps without noticing the antennas. Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional building code violation is incredible. I'd have to concur. Unless you were so criminally negligent and put others at risk, such as tenants, I see no reason you'd be prosecuted. Also, insurance would pay your claim but then drop you. And some won't pay... not necessarily for a lightening strike but for an auto accident. A word to the wise.. don't insure with AAA. Trust me. My sympathies. dxAce Michigan USA |
#7
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FDR wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... FDR wrote: "Mark S. Holden" wrote in message ... wrote: I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably pessimistic. Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front of the polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm sure a strike could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless. In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of underground coax to get to the house. Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case there is something in there. There are differences, but even though they're insured with different companies in different states, the insurance contracts I've read for homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate form. Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show you made even a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system. The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a specific provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The company sets the terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your favor. On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and saw an antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd need to give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to try reasoning with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort to make sure the system is safe. But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a serious antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a second railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps without noticing the antennas. Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional building code violation is incredible. I'd have to concur. Unless you were so criminally negligent and put others at risk, such as tenants, I see no reason you'd be prosecuted. Also, insurance would pay your claim but then drop you. And some won't pay... not necessarily for a lightening strike but for an auto accident. A word to the wise.. don't insure with AAA. Trust me. My sympathies. I actually appreciate that as it's been a real pain in the neck (no pun intended) for the last (almost two years). But what the heck, it'll only take about $30,000 to fix. dxAce Michigan USA |
#8
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Mark S. Holden wrote:
wrote: Since the fun flame feast we had over lightening protection, I thought it might be very usefull to newbies to make some points clearer then I think is common. First I don't care if anyone choses to pay the slightest bit of attention to what I say. I am only trying to pass on the help that I received from others in the past. Forget about protecting your radio and electronics. Think instead about keeping your home from burning down, or killing yourself, and your family. Lightning fires can spread as if an accelerant was used. Think about what trouble you might face if your installation was "illegal", found to violate the local or state electrical code and your insurance company may be able to refuse to pay. Refuse to pay anything. I won't bother posting links to the National Electrical Code, they are simple to find. You might want to your insurance agent, or read your insurance policy. Call your local fire department or building inspector and find out who handles electrical inspections. Call them from a payphone if you fear bringing down the harpies of code enforcement upon yourself. And ask what the rules are. Copies should be availble for public inpsection at the planing and zoning commision and/or the local library. All I can say is that in my location, there are strict rules requiring adherence to the NEC. And my insurance has a clause that clearly states that non compliant or non apporoved modifications, additions, "may result in denial of your claim". Yea and the sun might come up Friday. Any takers of a bet that they would pay? The fire marshal told me that if a non conforming installation caused a fire that caused injury or death WOULD face prosecution. Period. No exceptions. That ALL of these prosecutions have resulted in convictions. So at the very least, meet the requirements of the law. I have had two direct hits, the first vaporised the top 2' of my 108" 10mtr whip, the second vaporised my 70' #14 hard drawn antenna, the 9:1 matching tranformer, and blew the metal case to dime sized pieces, and blew holes in my burried coax. It also deprogramed most programable devices in the house, and the rear motion sensor failed. The failure might not have been related as the PIR was ~15 years old. None of my radios, PC or HiFi/TV had any damage (other then requiring BIOS resets, scanner/radio memories reprogramed and the like) I am not saying that you can save your radios,or even save your home. If one of the killer bolts that appear to be so common in FL manage to hit your home, all may be lost. As bad and sad as that would be, it would be worse to face the loss of your home insurance, a fine, and possible trial and going to jail. When I got my first SW my dad insisted that we "put up the antenna correctly, and install a "lightning protector". He went on to warn me that the protector might save the house but the radio would be ruined. And I had to disconnect my antenna anytime I wasn't listening, and to never ever listen during storms. He took the next day off, an unheard of event, the only other time I can remember him taking off was for my sister's birth, and we went to the local radio/tv parts house and bought 100' of "antenna wire" with dog bone insulators. When I married and moved from my parents home, we carefully took the antenna down. It was the antenna that got hit where I we now live. I still have the a 6" piece with the melted blob of copper that I keep on the wall below my first SW QSL card to remind of the joys and sorrows of SWL. My HF receivng antenna is at varaince withthe NEC. The electrical inspector wrote me anice letter that my departure fromt he NEC did not create any additonal risk. I also have a ltter frmo my insurance company, not the local agent, but hte home office sttaing my varience is accepted as long as "woire that enter your home are bonded as required by the NEC." A little extra effort to be sure, but well worth it. If we get nailed tonight and manage to get out alive, I will have teh cold comfort of knowing that I have not only done all I could, but htat I will face no legal of inusarnce problems. Flame me all you want, but if I can motovate one person to take the proper steps to prevent lossing their house, life or freedom I will feel good. Terry I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably pessimistic. Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front of the polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm sure a strike could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless. In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of underground coax to get to the house. Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case there is something in there. There are differences, but even though they're insured with different companies in different states, the insurance contracts I've read for homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate form. Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show you made even a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system. The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a specific provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The company sets the terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your favor. On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and saw an antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd need to give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to try reasoning with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort to make sure the system is safe. But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a serious antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a second railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps without noticing the antennas. Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional building code violation is incredible. Theoretically, it COULD happen, if the DA was in a bad mood or something or they needed to make an example out of you. I think it would be more likely that your insurance company would find some way to weasel out of paying for the damage. Ever since insurers lost a bundle of cash speculating on tech stocks they've been finding creative ways to cancel policies, or not pay claims. They've been saying that labrador retrievers look like rottweilers, therefore you have a dangerous dog and that's an unacceptable risk. I figure that if your house burned down because your antenna was hit, they'd say that the antenna was technically illegal, therefore the damage is not covered. That may be true, but I doubt that you'd be thrown in jail for it, unless your entire family died and some bloviating politician wants to make an example out of you for whatever reason. I also don't think that lightning fires spread "as if there was an accelerant". My grandfather once lived in a rural area where the power poles didn't have grounds. When lightning hit the pole, foot long flames came out of the sockets. It ruined everything electrical, and he had to rewire his house several times, but it didn't burn down. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#9
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running dogg demonstrates why these pictures of the 'primary
protection' system require inspection: http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised. But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing. To transport electricity back to the defective transformer, the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house exploded. Many say lights work just fine. Therefore, don't worry. Be happy. Even the military calls for inspections of these grounding connections every 5 years or sooner. A homeowner must take responsibility for his ground connections. The consequences sometimes can be catastrophic as demonstrated by multiple examples. running dogg wrote: ... My grandfather once lived in a rural area where the power poles didn't have grounds. When lightning hit the pole, foot long flames came out of the sockets. It ruined everything electrical, and he had to rewire his house several times, but it didn't burn down. |
#10
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"w_tom" wrote in message ... running dogg demonstrates why these pictures of the 'primary protection' system require inspection: http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised. But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing. To transport electricity back to the defective transformer, the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house exploded. If that doesn't souind like an urban myth.... Many say lights work just fine. Therefore, don't worry. Be happy. Even the military calls for inspections of these grounding connections every 5 years or sooner. A homeowner must take responsibility for his ground connections. The consequences sometimes can be catastrophic as demonstrated by multiple examples. running dogg wrote: ... My grandfather once lived in a rural area where the power poles didn't have grounds. When lightning hit the pole, foot long flames came out of the sockets. It ruined everything electrical, and he had to rewire his house several times, but it didn't burn down. |
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