FDR wrote:


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
running dogg demonstrates why these pictures of the 'primary
protection' system require inspection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....

Yeah, it does to me too. I doubt that electricity would be transported
back to a transformer via natural gas line. Natural gas is awfully
volatile. Also, if the neutral wire INSIDE one of those huge oil filled
transformers up on a pole failed, how would the homeowner know, much
less act? I suppose that an arcing transformer would cause horrible SW
interference (not sure about MW) but most people don't have SW radios.
In that case only a local SWL or ham would notice.

All new construction around here requires 400 amp household grounds
built into the foundation. Typically the special ground rod is simply
stuck into the concrete. I think it should be actually buried in the
earth, but apparently that's not necessary. Fortunately lightning storms
are rare here, and when they DO happen they're rarely on the scale seen
in Florida. (I never understood why people think Florida is paradise;
they have some NASTY weather there and some really, really bad urban
ghettoes.)



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The investigator was a personal friend who we stumbled upon
as he was returning from the exploded house. He immediately
explained what had happened - the broken neutral wire inside
transformer and no building earth ground. It was one of
those, "Of course. I never realized that could happen."
moments. As it would when one is familiar with 'how and why'
buildings and utilities are earthed.

Another event created by a missing earth ground was
continuous ringing of telephones in some adjacent homes. The
offending home was not properly earthed. That house used
other utility wires as a neutral wire. The emergency response
guy borrowed infrared goggles from the fire department to
follow a cable TV wire. Wire was so hot that he could follow
that wire behind walls with infrared goggles.

Basic knowledge of how utilities connect make it obvious
that electricity could use gas lines (or other conductive
materials) as a neutral return - given a failure in the right
spot AND no building earth ground. Feel all you want. But
earth ground is essential for human safety as well as for
other reasons. Facts remain electrical. Feeling has no place
here. Either one can say specifically why that gas line was
not used as a neutral return - or one does not have sufficient
knowledge to respond. Feelings are not sufficient. A
doubting response must be able to say why - using fundamental
electrical principles. Anything less would be junk science
reasoning.

Homeowners have enough in these two discussions to
appreciate why earth ground is essential to human safety AND
why (and how) that earth ground should be enhanced to provide
transistor safety.

FDR wrote:
"w_tom" wrote in message
...
A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....

"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably
pessimistic.

Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front of
the
polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm sure
a
strike could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless.

In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of underground
coax to get to the house.

Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case
there is
something in there. There are differences, but even though they're
insured with different companies in different states, the insurance
contracts I've read for homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the
same boiler plate form.

Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show you
made even a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system.

The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a
specific
provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The company
sets the terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in
your favor.

On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and saw
an antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd
need to give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time
to try reasoning with them if you really have made (or are willing to
make) an effort to make sure the system is safe.

But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a
serious
antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a
second
railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps
without
noticing the antennas.

Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional
building code violation is incredible.
-------------------------
Here in central KY a good frined installed a CNB and din't ground the
mast/antenna. He got luck and a strike set his den on fire. About $5K.
Whne the adjuster came, he saw the remains of the antenna and
looded for a groundrod. Finding none, he asked my frined who replied
witht he truth. The claims was rejected, his policy canceled and the
electricla inspector came around that evening and gave him a citation.
He spent the next week talking to lawyers, and when it came out that
he had't grounded the mast per regs, they told him he was screwed.
So he got to pay for the repair, and go to court where he was fined
$500 being a first time offender.

In a isimalr case 6 or 7 years ago, a guy put a TV antenna on his
roof.
With no ground wire. During a T-storm he got lucky. Set the house on
fire and inspite of the heavy rain it was a complete loss. His wife
died
and the DA was going to press charges. The gent died the day before
the Grand Jury. I have a cousin who is a lawyer, I know, I hang my had
in
shame as I admit this in public, and I asked her about it at the time.

She was of the opinon that not only would he be indicted, but that he
would be convicted. This was before he got extra lucky and died.

Maybe the planing and zoning nannies are sane in your neck of the
woods, but around here they are petty nazis. If they catch you doing
"substantial"
work without a permit, you're screwed. If they find you installed your
own electric water heater, you get a nasty fine, if it is a gas water
heater, you are
really F$#%^. People have gone to jail. If it is your rental property,
you are in real trouble. You can avoid this by having a licensed
electrician or plumber "aprove" your work. They even go around to al
the home centers and get records of everyone who buys a water heaters.
They find a lot of Mr. Smiths and Jones who paid with cash. There was a
reading of a bill that required stores to gather legal IDs but it died
in commite. I am lucky because I have
a plumber and an electrician for friends and can get them to sign off
on my
work. But around here the government is so determined to protect us
they
won't let a little thing like reason or common sense to intrude on
their grand
plans. I don't worry too much about the new world order because it is
here
in central KY. When I retire we are going to move out of this over
protected
locale....Hell they even banned smokining restruaunts. And I don't even
smoke and didn't frequent places that catered to smokers.

Personal freedom and liberty?

Not aroundhere.


And I posed a worst case view. I have had two major hits that destroyed
myantennas and did no damage to my radio gear. I am glad I don't live
in
FL where the lightening strikes must be killer. I mean if MW stations
get
destroyed with the frequency stated in the lightening protection
thread,
it must be nasty down there. I aksed the engineerng staff of several
local MW outlets and none of them have had damage in over 20 years.
And one TV station was damaged by multiple strikes on the power/telco
systems. They lost a lot of PCs telecom gear etc, but their production
and transmission system came through unscathed. Had to use cell
phones for a couple of days. But like I said, my post assumed a worst
case conditino, one where the bolts are so large that protection is
doomed to fail. In such a case, the very least a ham/CBer/SWL should
do is to meet the local codes. Looking at the cable and DBS isntalls I
have seen all over the state, that level isn't all that hard or
expensive.
Run coax into "static" block, run (too thin) ground wire to (sub
standard)ground rod.

Terry

wrote:

snip
-------------------------
Here in central KY a good frined installed a CNB and din't ground the
mast/antenna. He got luck and a strike set his den on fire. About $5K.
Whne the adjuster came, he saw the remains of the antenna and
looded for a groundrod. Finding none, he asked my frined who replied
witht he truth. The claims was rejected, his policy canceled and the
electricla inspector came around that evening and gave him a citation.
He spent the next week talking to lawyers, and when it came out that
he had't grounded the mast per regs, they told him he was screwed.
So he got to pay for the repair, and go to court where he was fined
$500 being a first time offender.

In a isimalr case 6 or 7 years ago, a guy put a TV antenna on his
roof.
With no ground wire. During a T-storm he got lucky. Set the house on
fire and inspite of the heavy rain it was a complete loss. His wife
died
and the DA was going to press charges. The gent died the day before
the Grand Jury. I have a cousin who is a lawyer, I know, I hang my had
in
shame as I admit this in public, and I asked her about it at the time.

She was of the opinon that not only would he be indicted, but that he
would be convicted. This was before he got extra lucky and died.
snip

Terry

I'm guessing you're missing some details about those horror stories.

Not knowing what they are, I've made up some remarkably stupid things someone
might say to the insurance company or a local official. I'm not suggesting any
of these comments were made by the individuals you've mentioned.

1. I knew it was dangerous but I've been busy the last few years.

2. This fire was a stroke of luck - now I can finally afford to remodel that
den.

3. Looks like I saved the cost of a divorce.

On 7 Jun 2005 19:02:14 -0700, wrote:

He took the next day off, an unheard of event, the
only other time I can remember him taking off was for
my sister's birth, and we went to the local radio/tv
parts house and bought 100' of "antenna wire" with
dog bone insulators.


That is absolutely the weirdest way I have ever heard of to
ceebrate the birth of a child. Especially the dog bones part. :-)

k... wrote:

That is absolutely the weirdest way I have ever heard of to
ceebrate the birth of a child. Especially the dog bones part. :-)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Funny, very funny.
He took the next day off, and we went to the local radio/tv
parts house and bought 100' of "antenna wire" with "dog
bone" insulators. The only other time I can remember him
taking off was for the birth of my sister.

Terry