"dxAce" wrote in message
...


FDR wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


FDR wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
wrote:


I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably
pessimistic.

Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front
of
the
polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm
sure
a
strike
could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless.

In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of
underground
coax to
get to the house.

Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case
there
is
something in there. There are differences, but even though they're
insured with
different companies in different states, the insurance contracts
I've
read
for
homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate
form.

Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show
you
made
even
a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system.

The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a
specific
provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The
company
sets
the
terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your
favor.

On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and
saw
an
antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd
need
to
give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to
try
reasoning
with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort
to
make
sure the system is safe.

But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a
serious
antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a
second
railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps
without
noticing the antennas.

Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional
building
code
violation is incredible.

I'd have to concur. Unless you were so criminally negligent and put
others
at risk, such as tenants, I see no reason you'd be prosecuted.

Also, insurance would pay your claim but then drop you.

And some won't pay... not necessarily for a lightening strike but for
an
auto
accident.

A word to the wise.. don't insure with AAA.

Trust me.

My sympathies.

I actually appreciate that as it's been a real pain in the neck (no pun
intended) for the last (almost two years). But what the heck, it'll only
take
about $30,000 to fix.

Best of luck with that. Sincerely.


dxAce
Michigan
USA

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
running dogg demonstrates why these pictures of the 'primary
protection' system require inspection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....


Many say lights work just fine. Therefore, don't worry. Be
happy. Even the military calls for inspections of these
grounding connections every 5 years or sooner. A homeowner
must take responsibility for his ground connections. The
consequences sometimes can be catastrophic as demonstrated by
multiple examples.

running dogg wrote:
... My grandfather once lived in a rural area where the power
poles didn't have grounds. When lightning hit the pole, foot
long flames came out of the sockets. It ruined everything
electrical, and he had to rewire his house several times, but
it didn't burn down.

FDR wrote:


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
running dogg demonstrates why these pictures of the 'primary
protection' system require inspection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....

Yeah, it does to me too. I doubt that electricity would be transported
back to a transformer via natural gas line. Natural gas is awfully
volatile. Also, if the neutral wire INSIDE one of those huge oil filled
transformers up on a pole failed, how would the homeowner know, much
less act? I suppose that an arcing transformer would cause horrible SW
interference (not sure about MW) but most people don't have SW radios.
In that case only a local SWL or ham would notice.

All new construction around here requires 400 amp household grounds
built into the foundation. Typically the special ground rod is simply
stuck into the concrete. I think it should be actually buried in the
earth, but apparently that's not necessary. Fortunately lightning storms
are rare here, and when they DO happen they're rarely on the scale seen
in Florida. (I never understood why people think Florida is paradise;
they have some NASTY weather there and some really, really bad urban
ghettoes.)



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FDR wrote:

I actually appreciate that as it's been a real pain in the neck (no pun
intended) for the last (almost two years). But what the heck, it'll only
take
about $30,000 to fix.


Best of luck with that. Sincerely.


yeah..those pesky soft tissue injuries. The Ace just admitted that money will
cure his ills. That would be a miracle indeed. If it were ANYONE else other than
the Ace himself, I'd say it was a fraud attempt.



mike

FDR wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


FDR wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


FDR wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
wrote:


I think being careful is a good idea, but you're remarkably
pessimistic.

Last year one of my antennas took a direct hit. Everything in front
of
the
polyphaser was destroyed. Everything in back of it was fine. I'm
sure
a
strike
could have done more damage - but it's not hopeless.

In my case, a strike would need to follow over 300 feet of
underground
coax to
get to the house.

Reading your house insurance policy contract is a good idea, in case
there
is
something in there. There are differences, but even though they're
insured with
different companies in different states, the insurance contracts
I've
read
for
homes in CT, FL and NJ look to be based on the same boiler plate
form.

Insurance companies aren't likely to deny a claim if you can show
you
made
even
a minimal good faith effort to have a safe system.

The courts would rule against them unless they could point to a
specific
provision in your policy allowing them to deny coverage. The
company
sets
the
terms of the contract, so anything in doubt will be decided in your
favor.

On the other hand, if an insurance company inspected your house and
saw
an
antenna they might decide they don't want to insure you - but they'd
need
to
give you time to correct the problem - and you'd have some time to
try
reasoning
with them if you really have made (or are willing to make) an effort
to
make
sure the system is safe.

But frankly, I doubt antennas are on their minds. A friend with a
serious
antenna farm got a letter threatening to drop him if he didn't put a
second
railing on his back steps. Hard to imagine they could see the steps
without
noticing the antennas.

Your concern someone could be tossed in jail for an unintentional
building
code
violation is incredible.

I'd have to concur. Unless you were so criminally negligent and put
others
at risk, such as tenants, I see no reason you'd be prosecuted.

Also, insurance would pay your claim but then drop you.

And some won't pay... not necessarily for a lightening strike but for
an
auto
accident.

A word to the wise.. don't insure with AAA.

Trust me.

My sympathies.

I actually appreciate that as it's been a real pain in the neck (no pun
intended) for the last (almost two years). But what the heck, it'll only
take
about $30,000 to fix.

Best of luck with that. Sincerely.

TNX

dxAce
Michigan
USA

m II wrote:

FDR wrote:

I actually appreciate that as it's been a real pain in the neck (no pun
intended) for the last (almost two years). But what the heck, it'll only
take
about $30,000 to fix.


Best of luck with that. Sincerely.

yeah..those pesky soft tissue injuries. The Ace just admitted that money will
cure his ills. That would be a miracle indeed. If it were ANYONE else other than
the Ace himself, I'd say it was a fraud attempt.

Soft tissue? Actually it's a bone injury. You ever had a boner? Ah... probably not,
you're a Canuck.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

wrote:

snip
-------------------------
Here in central KY a good frined installed a CNB and din't ground the
mast/antenna. He got luck and a strike set his den on fire. About $5K.
Whne the adjuster came, he saw the remains of the antenna and
looded for a groundrod. Finding none, he asked my frined who replied
witht he truth. The claims was rejected, his policy canceled and the
electricla inspector came around that evening and gave him a citation.
He spent the next week talking to lawyers, and when it came out that
he had't grounded the mast per regs, they told him he was screwed.
So he got to pay for the repair, and go to court where he was fined
$500 being a first time offender.

In a isimalr case 6 or 7 years ago, a guy put a TV antenna on his
roof.
With no ground wire. During a T-storm he got lucky. Set the house on
fire and inspite of the heavy rain it was a complete loss. His wife
died
and the DA was going to press charges. The gent died the day before
the Grand Jury. I have a cousin who is a lawyer, I know, I hang my had
in
shame as I admit this in public, and I asked her about it at the time.

She was of the opinon that not only would he be indicted, but that he
would be convicted. This was before he got extra lucky and died.
snip

Terry

I'm guessing you're missing some details about those horror stories.

Not knowing what they are, I've made up some remarkably stupid things someone
might say to the insurance company or a local official. I'm not suggesting any
of these comments were made by the individuals you've mentioned.

1. I knew it was dangerous but I've been busy the last few years.

2. This fire was a stroke of luck - now I can finally afford to remodel that
den.

3. Looks like I saved the cost of a divorce.

The investigator was a personal friend who we stumbled upon
as he was returning from the exploded house. He immediately
explained what had happened - the broken neutral wire inside
transformer and no building earth ground. It was one of
those, "Of course. I never realized that could happen."
moments. As it would when one is familiar with 'how and why'
buildings and utilities are earthed.

Another event created by a missing earth ground was
continuous ringing of telephones in some adjacent homes. The
offending home was not properly earthed. That house used
other utility wires as a neutral wire. The emergency response
guy borrowed infrared goggles from the fire department to
follow a cable TV wire. Wire was so hot that he could follow
that wire behind walls with infrared goggles.

Basic knowledge of how utilities connect make it obvious
that electricity could use gas lines (or other conductive
materials) as a neutral return - given a failure in the right
spot AND no building earth ground. Feel all you want. But
earth ground is essential for human safety as well as for
other reasons. Facts remain electrical. Feeling has no place
here. Either one can say specifically why that gas line was
not used as a neutral return - or one does not have sufficient
knowledge to respond. Feelings are not sufficient. A
doubting response must be able to say why - using fundamental
electrical principles. Anything less would be junk science
reasoning.

Homeowners have enough in these two discussions to
appreciate why earth ground is essential to human safety AND
why (and how) that earth ground should be enhanced to provide
transistor safety.

FDR wrote:
"w_tom" wrote in message
...
A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....

w_tom wrote:

The investigator was a personal friend who we stumbled upon
as he was returning from the exploded house. He immediately
explained what had happened - the broken neutral wire inside
transformer and no building earth ground. It was one of
those, "Of course. I never realized that could happen."
moments. As it would when one is familiar with 'how and why'
buildings and utilities are earthed.

Another event created by a missing earth ground was
continuous ringing of telephones in some adjacent homes. The
offending home was not properly earthed. That house used
other utility wires as a neutral wire. The emergency response
guy borrowed infrared goggles from the fire department to
follow a cable TV wire. Wire was so hot that he could follow
that wire behind walls with infrared goggles.

Basic knowledge of how utilities connect make it obvious
that electricity could use gas lines (or other conductive
materials) as a neutral return - given a failure in the right
spot AND no building earth ground. Feel all you want. But
earth ground is essential for human safety as well as for
other reasons. Facts remain electrical. Feeling has no place
here. Either one can say specifically why that gas line was
not used as a neutral return - or one does not have sufficient
knowledge to respond. Feelings are not sufficient. A
doubting response must be able to say why - using fundamental
electrical principles. Anything less would be junk science
reasoning.

Homeowners have enough in these two discussions to
appreciate why earth ground is essential to human safety AND
why (and how) that earth ground should be enhanced to provide
transistor safety.

Suddenly we're worried about transistor safety?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
The investigator was a personal friend who we stumbled upon
as he was returning from the exploded house. He immediately
explained what had happened - the broken neutral wire inside
transformer and no building earth ground. It was one of
those, "Of course. I never realized that could happen."
moments. As it would when one is familiar with 'how and why'
buildings and utilities are earthed.

I'm sorry, but if the neutral broke then there could be no return current
for the single phase legs. Power would go out at the house.




Another event created by a missing earth ground was
continuous ringing of telephones in some adjacent homes. The
offending home was not properly earthed. That house used
other utility wires as a neutral wire. The emergency response
guy borrowed infrared goggles from the fire department to
follow a cable TV wire. Wire was so hot that he could follow
that wire behind walls with infrared goggles.

Basic knowledge of how utilities connect make it obvious
that electricity could use gas lines (or other conductive
materials) as a neutral return - given a failure in the right
spot AND no building earth ground. Feel all you want. But
earth ground is essential for human safety as well as for
other reasons. Facts remain electrical. Feeling has no place
here. Either one can say specifically why that gas line was
not used as a neutral return - or one does not have sufficient
knowledge to respond. Feelings are not sufficient. A
doubting response must be able to say why - using fundamental
electrical principles. Anything less would be junk science
reasoning.

Homeowners have enough in these two discussions to
appreciate why earth ground is essential to human safety AND
why (and how) that earth ground should be enhanced to provide
transistor safety.

FDR wrote:
"w_tom" wrote in message
...
A household earth ground (another earth ground) is essential
also for human safety. The neutral wire failed inside a
transformer. Building's earth ground had been compromised.
But since the lights still worked, the homeowner did nothing.
To transport electricity back to the defective transformer,
the house use a natural gas line. Fortunately no one was home
when gas line gaskets finally failed at the meter; the house
exploded.

If that doesn't souind like an urban myth....