Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or such...
only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of C++
and assembly...

John

"John S." wrote in message
ups.com...
Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds.....

Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the
power, java can be pressed into a functional use...

However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands
with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run
scripted and byte code...

Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real
programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java,
it is a moot point...

John

"MnMikew" wrote in message
...

"beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:03:14 -0500, "MnMikew"
wrote:


"beerbarrel" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:29:47 -0500, "MnMikew"

wrote:


"dxAce" wrote in message
...


John Plimmer wrote:

I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test.
It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa.
It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin
in high
school
and have at least two courses in Latin for their law
degree.
That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests
from the
dinosaurs.
Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever
before with
high
quality judges and advocates.
The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty
no
longer
spew
out
Latin quotations = R.I.P.

Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is
diminishing by
the
year
and the once crowded ham bands are now empty.
We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into
this
wonderful
hobby.

Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards
learn
the
code? If
so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code?

If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is
so
different
today?

Laziness?

It's like being certified in COBOL when you work on MSSQL, it's
a
waste
of
time.



But COBOL is still a viable language....

True, but it's popularity is waning.




I do have a buddy that programs for Loctite amd makes well up into
6
figures. It's still used pretty heavily in the business world.

Sure is. My shop is finally moving away from cobol to all java in
the next
few years.

In article ,
John Smith wrote:
Tell me, what is/are a legitimate argument(s) to keep CW a
requirement, which any sane man/woman could argue with real and
logical conviction?

The real reason for the Morse requirement was, (three quarters of a
century ago or so, after WW I), to maintain a pool of people that could
be inducted into the military in times of war to maintain communications
on the battlefield. Learning Morse is not a natural act. Nor, for more
than a small percentage of the population, very easy. Getting a bunch
of Signal Corps cannon fodder to train themselves was a great boon.

Back about 20 years ago, when Digital Signal Processor ICs were first
coming out, I did a bunch of library research on the possiblity of
building a box that could match the performance of a human operator.
The newest paper I could find on the actual use of CW, in the open
literature, was from 1959. They were no longer interested in using it.
It takes too long to train an operator, and the data transmission capacity
is too low. And if the radio operator gets shot...

(There was, reportedly, a lot of expertise in the NSA and its military
affiliates in automated CW intercepts, as the Soviet Union and third
world still had a lot of tactical comm. in CW at that time).

But at that same time, 20 years ago, I got some insight, (at a job
interview), into what the miltary was planning for the future. It was
automating an entire infantry division with packet radio. Not much
reason to learn Morse code when the field radios had 20 kbps (?) packet
modems built in, and the field officers could just plug the Grid portable
into them.

So the military no longer has any need and it's taken 40 years
for the ham "community" to figure this out.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the
power, java can be pressed into a functional use...

However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands
with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run
scripted and byte code...

Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real
programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java,
it is a moot point...

Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like
Websphere or Weblogic.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or such...
only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of C++
and assembly...

Now that's funny.

beerbarrel wrote:
On 22 Jul 2005 10:28:47 -0700, "John S." wrote:

Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds.....



But good ones still make good money...

Oh yeah, somebody has to keep those old legacy systems running. The
ones that do the job so well because they are simple for end users.

Oh really, funny? Well, yah, funny the cobol'ers/fortran'ers don't
get a clue...

But then look at ham radio, took up till now for CW to be dropped,
with the "religious fanatic following" screaming right up till the
last moment that CW would live forever.

Now they stand looking like "dumbkoffs" and worse...

Does it surprise anyone that there are groups like this on the subject
of computer languages? Well, I suppose so, but "dumbkoffs" exist
there too...

John


"MnMikew" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or
such...
only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of
C++
and assembly...

Now that's funny.

"beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:14:13 -0500, "MnMikew"
wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the
power, java can be pressed into a functional use...

However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands
with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run
scripted and byte code...

Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real
programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java,
it is a moot point...

Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like
Websphere or Weblogic.



Yep...I think he programs on a AS400 if memory serves me...

ahhh yes, the good ol green screens. Our applications still run on the good
ol AS400, though that may change once we make the switch.

Who are you talking to?

I am C++/assembly on the IBM platform here (mostly, there is always
some old code someone wants to maintain, somewhere)...

Sure in the past I have done COBOL, pascal, fortran, snobal, visual
basic, basic, etc, etc... but years ago now...

I realized the first time I seen "C" that it was the future, however,
took me a bit to accept that openly (month or two while I picked up
the syntax, back in the 90's)

COBOL is as dead as CW, but old farts still use it...


Java can do most all of what perl can do, perl just does it better...
for a "compiled script language" perl rocks...

John

"MnMikew" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or
the
power, java can be pressed into a functional use...

However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your
hands
with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run
scripted and byte code...

Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real
programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to
java,
it is a moot point...

Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like
Websphere or Weblogic.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:56 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Difference is 'tard boy... I'm not a dx-idiot!

You could've fooled me...