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OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
Dear Sierra Club Supporter -
We want first to thank you for taking the time to sign our petition to help protect the Giant Sequoias earlier this year. Thousands of you signed the petition urging President Bush to put an immediate end to U.S. Forest Service plans for commercial logging in the Giant Sequoia National Monument. Because you took the time to voice your concerns on this issue, we want to update you on some great news regarding the status of the Giant Sequoia Monument. Earlier this month, a federal judge shut down a 2,000-acre commercial logging project in Giant Sequoia National Monument because the federal government relied on outdated science to justify a controversial timber sale. The timber industry and U.S. Forest Service had argued that the logging was urgently needed for fire prevention, but the environmental groups showed that this was false and charged that the Forest Service had not taken a hard look at the likely harm to the monument and its wildlife that the extensive logging would cause. This decision helps ensure that the Giant Sequoia Monument will be protected and can continue to inspire visitors for generations to come, and we thank you again for taking the time to voice your opinion. For more information on this latest development, please visit the Environmental Law Program section of our website. Sincerely, Pat Gallagher Environmental Law Program Director Sierra Club |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
David wrote: Dear Sierra Club Supporter - We want first to thank you for taking the time to sign our petition to help protect the Giant Sequoias earlier this year. Thousands of you signed the petition urging President Bush to put an immediate end to U.S. Forest Service plans for commercial logging in the Giant Sequoia National Monument. Because you took the time to voice your concerns on this issue, we want to update you on some great news regarding the status of the Giant Sequoia Monument. Earlier this month, a federal judge shut down a 2,000-acre commercial logging project in Giant Sequoia National Monument because the federal government relied on outdated science to justify a controversial timber sale. The timber industry and U.S. Forest Service had argued that the logging was urgently needed for fire prevention, but the environmental groups showed that this was false and charged that the Forest Service had not taken a hard look at the likely harm to the monument and its wildlife that the extensive logging would cause. This decision helps ensure that the Giant Sequoia Monument will be protected and can continue to inspire visitors for generations to come, and we thank you again for taking the time to voice your opinion. For more information on this latest development, please visit the Environmental Law Program section of our website. Sincerely, Pat Gallagher Environmental Law Program Director Sierra Club - Shoulda cut em down, sell the wood to China To make tooth picks, lawn furniture & wood chips Put up a Strip mall with a 99 cent store & A Chinese Restaurant - Build Prisons on the remaining land |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
"David" wrote in message ... Dear Sierra Club Supporter - We want first to thank you for taking the time to sign our petition to help protect the Giant Sequoias earlier this year. Thousands of you signed the petition urging President Bush to put an immediate end to U.S. Forest Service plans for commercial logging in the Giant Sequoia National Monument. And of course it will be Bushes fault when they burn down now won't it? |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
MnMikew wrote: "David" wrote in message ... Dear Sierra Club Supporter - We want first to thank you for taking the time to sign our petition to help protect the Giant Sequoias earlier this year. Thousands of you signed the petition urging President Bush to put an immediate end to U.S. Forest Service plans for commercial logging in the Giant Sequoia National Monument. And of course it will be Bushes fault when they burn down now won't it? - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expe...uoia.html?acts Three More years . . . |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:47:22 -0400, dxAce
wrote: Yep, at least three more years without some brain stem liberal in the Presidency... You prefer a Nationalist Socialist? Why? |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
David "I don't know a damn thing about shortwave" Rickets wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:47:22 -0400, dxAce wrote: Yep, at least three more years without some brain stem liberal in the Presidency... You prefer a Nationalist Socialist? Why? Did I mention anything at all about a National Socialist, brain stem? Please try to pay attention, at least once in your life. I know it's difficult, but with some medication and some therapy, things might actually work out for you. dxAce Michigan USA |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
In fact, giant sequoias need fairly frequent fires (at least a few a
century, if not more often) to propagate their progeny. Without the heat of a fire, the scales of their cones will not open to release the seeds, and the mineral soil and open forest they require to germinate will not be available. Sequoia trees are not only generally unharmed by fire due to their thick and only lightly flammable bark, their existence depends upon the heat of the flames. Intense fuel reduction in their groves is tantamount to forced local extinction. Similar cases are true for other kinds of trees; Sequoiadendron Giganteum is just the most dramatic example. The Giant Sequoia National Monument, which is an entirely different entity from Sequoia National Park, is also run in a different way. Unlike the park, which is run by NPS/Dept. of the Interior, whose mission and goal is to protect the resource unimpaired, it is run by the Forest Service, which has traditionally been a multiple-use and harvesting agency (except in wilderness areas, where preservation policies are generally stronger). The monument, which preserves most of the remaining sequoia groves not in the parks, also contains a good deal of intermixed and buffer forest, normally the Forest Service's bread and butter when it comes to harvest. I do not envy the Forest Service's resource specialists in this monument - they have a tougher time in many ways than the Park Service, who merely has to protect, or the regular national forests, where preservation is rarely practiced ona large scale and rapacious harvest can often be done with impunity. In the Monument, resource specialists have the balancing act of their lives when they must protect the Sequoia groves *and* provide for some level of harvest. These two conflicting goals give them an overwhelming management obstacle, both politically and in terms of the resource itself. When walking through some of the the groves in the Monument, it gives an odd feeling to walk among standing sequoia trees with little in between but low shrubs and grasses, compared to what one finds in the fully protected groves such as Giant Forest or Grant Grove or Redwood Mountain Grove. One wonders how much the longevity of the sequoia is owed to the presence of a forest around it to protect from the battering of strong winds in Sierra storms or the direct baking summer sun upon its entire root system. Time will tell, I suppose. One of the oddest groves is Converse Basin, where the Boole Tree, a very large old sequoia named for the foreman of the lumber company, stands alone among a few 100-year old trees and bushes. It is about the most incongruous sight I have seen, only matched by a few similar spots in the Pacific Northwest where single old giant redcedars have been preserved in the midst of what looks like a war zone. Other recently-established national monuments, including Mt. St. Helens National Volcanic in WA and Grand Staircase-Escalante in UT, have been modelled on similar frameworks, although St. Helens gets a stronger preservation component than some. If you have never been to these three National Monuments, I urge you to go - they are spectacular, fascinating and have enormous rewards to offer. Bruce Jensen |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
wrote in message oups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really
think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. Mike - Sequoia trees really do withstand fires beautifully - it takes a particularly bad fire to kill one, and most lightning-caused forest fires that naturally sweep through a grove every 10 to 50 years does not reach an intensity to do much more than superficially scorch the big trees. And, as I've already explained, their reproduction cannot occur without it. No, they will not chop down any large trees (which is defined, IIRC, as trees greater than about 60" diameter at breast height) - they are all protected under the Monument designation. It is the trees between the big ones that would be taken, mostly firs and sugar pines. Problem is, a sequoia forest is more than sequoia trees - it is an elaborate fabric of living things, many of which depend upon each other for support, biologically, chemically and physically. Just like you require oxygen to breathe, food with various nutrients to grow and survive, and mechanical support structures to clothe and house you, so do the things in the forest require similar and analogous features. You can argue and name-call if you like, but no living thing survives without the input and support of dozens, hundreds, thousands of others both far and near. Sequoia trees may seem so big and sturdy and durable that they could survive on their own (they certainly can withstand most fires) - and sometimes, people feel the same about themselves - but at some point, pulling enough bricks out of the house will make it fall. This isn't eco-nazi stuff - it happens every year in places around the world. Bruce Jensen |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
MnMikew wrote: wrote in message oups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... . And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. Her'e how it's done.. They clearcut everything; mile after mile after mile Up steep slopes, down into valleys, rught up to the highways.. where they leave a strip of trees.. They might leave a tree or two " for reseeding " the area. These just blow down, lacking the protection of the rest of the forest. When it rains, the whole thing turns into Mud, crashing into towns at the base of slopes, clogging streams, polluting reservoirs, washing out highways.. along with the houses of the very people hired to do the clearcutting; and anyone inside said house. And who picks up the Bill? The taxpayers. "Eco Nazis " ? - You don't know what your talking about.. http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/clearcut.jpg |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0500, "MnMikew"
wrote: wrote in message roups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. You are a tool. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
David wrote: On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: wrote in message roups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. You are a tool. You are a stem. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:05:43 -0400, dxAce
wrote: You are a stem. I'll cop to that. What does it mean, anyway? |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
BpnJ - Nice Description of Walking Among the Big Trees ~ RHF
The Few - The Proud - The Brave - The Sequoias ! { Once There Were Giants ! - That Stood Among Us. } |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
DaviD - Better a 'national' socialist who is an american first;
then an "International" Socialist who would subjugate the USA to the will of the UN and the other so called People's Democracies like China, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Vietnam to name a few ~ RHF |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:09:31 -0400, dxAce
wrote: David "I don't know a damn thing about shortwave" Rickets wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:47:22 -0400, dxAce wrote: Yep, at least three more years without some brain stem liberal in the Presidency... You prefer a Nationalist Socialist? Why? Did I mention anything at all about a National Socialist, brain stem? Jeez, some parrot taught dzArse a new insult -- now he has four to use in each posting. Please try to pay attention, at least once in your life. I know it's difficult, but with some medication and some therapy, things might actually work out for you. Why? It did nothing for you, brainless stem. dxAce Michigan USA |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
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OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
I own some Chainsaws,electric and gas.Come cut down that 70 foot tall
Pecan Tree in front of my house that is threating to fall over on my house and cut down that tall Pecan Tree in my back yard behind my bedroom that is threating to fall over on my bedroom and you can hug them Trees to your hearts content. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
sierra club is a Commie left wing outfit.
cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
There is a Bristlecone Tree in California that they say is over three
million years old. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:04:48 GMT, David wrote:
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. You are a tool. You are a fool. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On 3 Oct 2005 17:02:02 -0700, "RHF"
wrote: DaviD - Better a 'national' socialist who is an american first; then an "International" Socialist who would subjugate the USA to the will of the UN and the other so called People's Democracies like China, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Vietnam to name a few ~ RHF . . You are a very dangerous parrot. You are throwing the country away because you lack the courage necessary for healthy self-examination. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:51:18 -0500, wrote:
sierra club is a Commie left wing outfit. cuhulin Anyone who interferes with the raping of America is a commie organization. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
You are a stem.
I'll cop to that. What does it mean, anyway? I think, in this case, it refers to the brainstem, which includes the medulla oblongata but neither the cerebral cortext nor the cerebellum. It's an evolutionary...thing. Bruce Jensen |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On 4 Oct 2005 06:54:54 -0700, "bpnjensen" wrote:
You are a stem. I'll cop to that. What does it mean, anyway? I think, in this case, it refers to the brainstem, which includes the medulla oblongata but neither the cerebral cortext nor the cerebellum. It's an evolutionary...thing. Bruce Jensen Lizard brain? Sure, I got one. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
ok,call me a fool too.I don't care.
y'all play nice now,big brother is watching.haw haw haw. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
I want them two wimmins next door to "examine" me.oooops.
cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
U.S.fed govt IS a Commie Fascist Terrorist organization.I am not a
terrorist,I am not the enemy.I am only a fat old toothless 63 year old fat slop cussin out U.S.fed govt and all politicians with every breath I take and listening to the JT and Dave radio talk show on 97.3 FM on www.supertalkms.com and watching an old Robert Mitchum,Jean Simmons,Arthur Hunnicutt 1954 movie,She Couldn't Say No,on tv radio. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
BpnJ - Nice Description of Walking Among the Big Trees ~ RHF
The Few - The Proud - The Brave - The Sequoias ! { Once There Were Giants ! - That Stood Among Us. } RHF - IIRC, you spent a bit of time up in the Sierra foothills (maybe still do ?) Did you go up to Calaveras Big Trees at all? The South Grove there is very wild and splendid. A couple of those trees would be a fine place to hang a really long quiet wire (relevancy to topic ;-) Maybe a 4,000-footer between the Agassiz tree and Old Columbus...you'd hear the Big Bang with that set-up. Bruce Jensen |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
"bpnjensen" wrote in message ups.com... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. Mike - Sequoia trees really do withstand fires beautifully - it takes a particularly bad fire to kill one, and most lightning-caused forest fires that naturally sweep through a grove every 10 to 50 years does not reach an intensity to do much more than superficially scorch the big trees. And, as I've already explained, their reproduction cannot occur without it. No, they will not chop down any large trees (which is defined, IIRC, as trees greater than about 60" diameter at breast height) - they are all protected under the Monument designation. It is the trees between the big ones that would be taken, mostly firs and sugar pines. Problem is, a sequoia forest is more than sequoia trees - it is an elaborate fabric of living things, many of which depend upon each other for support, biologically, chemically and physically. Just like you require oxygen to breathe, food with various nutrients to grow and survive, and mechanical support structures to clothe and house you, so do the things in the forest require similar and analogous features. You can argue and name-call if you like, but no living thing survives without the input and support of dozens, hundreds, thousands of others both far and near. Sequoia trees may seem so big and sturdy and durable that they could survive on their own (they certainly can withstand most fires) - and sometimes, people feel the same about themselves - but at some point, pulling enough bricks out of the house will make it fall. This isn't eco-nazi stuff - it happens every year in places around the world. Bruce Jensen Yes Bruce, but logging a few trees is not going to damage the forest. The forestery practices of today are much less invasive. We need wood, period. It has to come from somewhere. Ask the people in California how particulary bad their fires have been as late. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
wrote in message ups.com... Her'e how it's done.. They clearcut everything; mile after mile after mile Up steep slopes, down into valleys, rught up to the highways.. where they leave a strip of trees.. That isnt used much these days, especially in designated forests. This probably does happen on Potlatch owned land though they dont leave a few trees to reseed, the replant millions of new trees. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
"David" wrote in message ... On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: wrote in message roups.com... - Giant Sequoias have unusually thick bark, which makes them fire resistant... Resistant isn't quite the same as fireproof now is it. And do you really think they would chop down the last of the big ones? More sensationalism from the rabid eco-nazis. You are a tool. and your a fool chicken little. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
Have you hugged your tree today? Not me,I am not a tree hugger.Robert
Mitchum movie,,, She Couldn't Say No,,,, How far is it to Progress,Arkansas? [about five gallons] Well,give me five gallons then. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
wrote:
Jeez, some parrot taught dzArse a new insult -- now he has four to use in each posting. He may be developing some personal hygiene. |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
Used to be,, used to be,,, All the way from the East Coast of America
all the way to the Mississippi River,,, everything was very,very dense Forest,, except for the Indian Trails and Indian settlements.Trees so high,, you couldn't hardly see the Sun. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
I love Trees as much as anybody else.My home State of Mississippi has
more Forest than any other State in America. www.devilfinder.com Mississippi Trivia (but,I am not a greenie,I am not a tree hugger) cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
Cut down some Trees (but,leave certain Trees alone) and plant new Tree
Seedlings.Guess what? It Works. cuhulin |
OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
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OT Score One For The Tree Huggers
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:33:05 -0500, "MnMikew"
wrote: Yes Bruce, but logging a few trees is not going to damage the forest. The forestery practices of today are much less invasive. We need wood, period. It has to come from somewhere. Ask the people in California how particulary bad their fires have been as late. The fires here are scrub brush. When we do have forest fires they are made much worse by beetle weakened pine trees which go up like an incendiary bomb. The beetles are spreading due to climate change. For many years we have been seeking federal help to remove the dead trees. It's cheaper than making people whole after a wild fire. |
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