John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

clifto wrote:

John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Here goes:

In August 2002, Cheney insisted: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that
Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

In a March 2003 address to the nation, Bush said: "Intelligence gathered by
this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to
possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

In April 2003, Fleischer claimed: "But make no mistake--as I said
earlier--we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction.
That is what this war was about and it is about."

In February 2003, Powell said: "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to
keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

But on 24 Feb 2001, Powell made the following statement while in Cairo,
Egypt:

"We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and
I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that
the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but
for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward
developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing
our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that
they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as
important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they
have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to
weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power
against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the
security of the neighbors of Iraq..."

On 15 May 2001, Powell testified before the Foreign Operations, Export
Financing and Related Programs Subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations
Committee.

Senator Bennett: Mr. Secretary, the U.N. sanctions on Iraq expire the
beginning of June. We've had bombs dropped, we've had threats made, we've
had all kinds of activity vis-a-vis Iraq in the previous administration. Now
we're coming to the end. What's our level of concern about the progress of
Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons programs?

Secretary Powell: The sanctions, as they are called, have succeeded over the
last 10 years, not in deterring him from moving in that direction, but from
actually being able to move in that direction. The Iraqi regime militarily
remains fairly weak. It doesn't have the capacity it had 10 or 12 years ago.
It has been contained. And even though we have no doubt in our mind that the
Iraqi regime is pursuing programs to develop weapons of mass destruction --
chemical, biological and nuclear -- I think the best intelligence estimates
suggest that they have not been terribly successful. There's no question
that they have some stockpiles of some of these sorts of weapons still under
their control, but they have not been able to break out, they have not been
able to come out with the capacity to deliver these kinds of systems or to
actually have these kinds of systems that is much beyond where they were 10
years ago.

Condoleeza Rice gets in on the act (29 July 2001, CNN Late Edition with Wolf
Blitzer) and her statement seems to support Powell's position:

"But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country
is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country.
We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been
rebuilt."

Check out the following links:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...aq.wmd.report/

I don't believe that Hussein was able to go on a WMD after the Powell/Rice
statements and managed to obtain a huge aresenal between then and 2003.

JB

John Barnard wrote:
clifto wrote:
Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

Here goes:

In August 2002, Cheney insisted: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that
Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

In a March 2003 address to the nation, Bush said: "Intelligence gathered by
this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to
possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

In April 2003, Fleischer claimed: "But make no mistake--as I said
earlier--we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction.
That is what this war was about and it is about."

In February 2003, Powell said: "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to
keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

On July 21, 2003, Bill Clinton said on the Larry King Show, "People
can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan
or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that
on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of
biological and chemical weapons."

Same day, same show, same Clinton, actually defending Bush: "You know,
everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't
make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in
a while."

I don't believe that Hussein was able to go on a WMD after the Powell/Rice
statements and managed to obtain a huge aresenal between then and 2003.

Even if I were to take your Powell quotes, and disregard that he's a
flaming Bush-bashing liberal, your Powell quotes are a good sample in
that they show how often Powell contradicts himself. In any event, I
trump your flaming liberal Powell with a flaming liberal Clinton.


And even if all your quotes and materials were 100% true and factual,
we still don't have a lie, only bad intelligence relayed to the public.

So keep on chanting about how Bush lied. Just don't do it around
thinking people or people who are affected by reality or facts.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

clifto wrote:

Same day, same show, same Clinton, actually defending Bush: "You know,
everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't
make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in
a while."

Yeah, I guess 2000+ American kids dead, 19,000 American kids mutilated
and tens of thousands of dead innocent civilians is just a little "once
in a while mess up". Shame on us for being so critical of Bunnypants' lies.

Carter-K8VT wrote:

clifto wrote:

Same day, same show, same Clinton, actually defending Bush: "You know,
everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't
make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in
a while."

Yeah, I guess 2000+ American kids dead, 19,000 American kids mutilated
and tens of thousands of dead innocent civilians is just a little "once
in a while mess up". Shame on us for being so critical of Bunnypants' lies.

LMAO at the 'tard who accused me of insurance fraud.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

clifto wrote:

John Barnard wrote:
clifto wrote:
Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

Here goes:

In August 2002, Cheney insisted: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that
Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

In a March 2003 address to the nation, Bush said: "Intelligence gathered by
this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to
possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

In April 2003, Fleischer claimed: "But make no mistake--as I said
earlier--we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction.
That is what this war was about and it is about."

In February 2003, Powell said: "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to
keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

On July 21, 2003, Bill Clinton said on the Larry King Show, "People
can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan
or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that
on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of
biological and chemical weapons."

Same day, same show, same Clinton, actually defending Bush: "You know,
everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't
make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in
a while."

I don't believe that Hussein was able to go on a WMD after the Powell/Rice
statements and managed to obtain a huge aresenal between then and 2003.

Even if I were to take your Powell quotes, and disregard that he's a
flaming Bush-bashing liberal, your Powell quotes are a good sample in
that they show how often Powell contradicts himself. In any event, I
trump your flaming liberal Powell with a flaming liberal Clinton.

Take a look where Rice says that Iraq and WMDs weren't an issue. Does that make
Rice a "flaming liberal" as well? Does anyone that disagrees with the
Chimp-in-Chief make them a "flaming liberal" in your eyes? No way in hell is
Powell a "flaming liberal". You might want to check out the part where Tenet told
Powell a load of bull**** with regards to the WMD issue and that caused a large
rift between the two. Powell, much to his credit, was intelligent to leave the
current ship of fools.



And even if all your quotes and materials were 100% true and factual,
we still don't have a lie, only bad intelligence relayed to the public.

Sorry to bring reality to your attention but Bush took the intel available and
treated it as a menu. In other words, he cherry-picked the intel. If this were a
sports match it would be akin to fixing the outcome and he would have been turfed
a long time ago. Too bad that the Chimp-in-Chief didn't inherit Bush, Sr's
intelligence who appears to have a greater insight into the folly of trying to
remove Saddam (Time, 2 March 1998).



So keep on chanting about how Bush lied. Just don't do it around
thinking people or people who are affected by reality or facts.

So when would you like me to begin reinforcing that the Chimp-in-chief lied
through his teeth around you? If you believe that Powell is a "flaming liberal"
then you aren't thinking at all!

You name wouldn't happen to be Clifto Clavin, would it?

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

JB

From: clifto
Organization: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:00:52 -0600
Subject: the church of bush

John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

All of this comes just as former Marine Corps General and former CENTCOM
commander Anthony Zinni has begun to speak out about the war in Iraq. Zinni
is the subject of a multiple page article in the Washington Post in which he
says "If I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. . . .
I don't care what happens to my career."

Zinni is indeed telling it like it is. To quote the Post:

"Iraq is in serious danger of coming apart because of lack of planning,
underestimating the task and buying into a flawed strategy," he says. "The
longer we stubbornly resist admitting the mistakes and not altering our
approach, the harder it will be to pull this chestnut out of the fire."

Apparently the time that Zinni turned against the Bush Administration (he
endorsed Bush in the 2000 election) was when he saw Vice President Dick
Cheney speak to a VFW convention.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of
mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them
to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Cheney's certitude bewildered Zinni. As chief of the Central Command, Zinni
had been immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar
with the intelligence analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire
weapons of mass destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the
intelligence, and never -- not once -- did it say, 'He has WMD.' "

That's right. Zinni says that "never ‹ not once ‹ did [the intelligence]
say, 'He has WMD.'" It was uncertain. It was always uncertain. Once Cheney
left the stage Zinni was conviced of two things: first, that the Bush
Administration was determined to invade and occupy Iraq. And, second, "These
guys don't understand what they are getting into."

(http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000781.php

Greg

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:46:55 GMT, Greg wrote:



From: clifto
Organization: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:00:52 -0600
Subject: the church of bush

John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

All of this comes just as former Marine Corps General and former CENTCOM
commander Anthony Zinni has begun to speak out about the war in Iraq. Zinni
is the subject of a multiple page article in the Washington Post in which he
says "If I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. . . .
I don't care what happens to my career."

Zinni is indeed telling it like it is. To quote the Post:

"Iraq is in serious danger of coming apart because of lack of planning,
underestimating the task and buying into a flawed strategy," he says. "The
longer we stubbornly resist admitting the mistakes and not altering our
approach, the harder it will be to pull this chestnut out of the fire."

Apparently the time that Zinni turned against the Bush Administration (he
endorsed Bush in the 2000 election) was when he saw Vice President Dick
Cheney speak to a VFW convention.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of
mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them
to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Cheney's certitude bewildered Zinni. As chief of the Central Command, Zinni
had been immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar
with the intelligence analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire
weapons of mass destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the
intelligence, and never -- not once -- did it say, 'He has WMD.' "

That's right. Zinni says that "never ‹ not once ‹ did [the intelligence]
say, 'He has WMD.'" It was uncertain. It was always uncertain. Once Cheney
left the stage Zinni was conviced of two things: first, that the Bush
Administration was determined to invade and occupy Iraq. And, second, "These
guys don't understand what they are getting into."

(http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000781.php

Greg



Why does it always have to be WMD's with you guys? You all seem to
forget the other hundred reasons that we should have kicked his butt!



Usenet'Hole List
---------------------------------
chicken little and his mom!,

Beerbarrel wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:46:55 GMT, Greg wrote:



From: clifto
Organization: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:00:52 -0600
Subject: the church of bush

John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

All of this comes just as former Marine Corps General and former CENTCOM
commander Anthony Zinni has begun to speak out about the war in Iraq. Zinni
is the subject of a multiple page article in the Washington Post in which he
says "If I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. . . .
I don't care what happens to my career."

Zinni is indeed telling it like it is. To quote the Post:

"Iraq is in serious danger of coming apart because of lack of planning,
underestimating the task and buying into a flawed strategy," he says. "The
longer we stubbornly resist admitting the mistakes and not altering our
approach, the harder it will be to pull this chestnut out of the fire."

Apparently the time that Zinni turned against the Bush Administration (he
endorsed Bush in the 2000 election) was when he saw Vice President Dick
Cheney speak to a VFW convention.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of
mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them
to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Cheney's certitude bewildered Zinni. As chief of the Central Command, Zinni
had been immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar
with the intelligence analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire
weapons of mass destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the
intelligence, and never -- not once -- did it say, 'He has WMD.' "

That's right. Zinni says that "never ‹ not once ‹ did [the intelligence]
say, 'He has WMD.'" It was uncertain. It was always uncertain. Once Cheney
left the stage Zinni was conviced of two things: first, that the Bush
Administration was determined to invade and occupy Iraq. And, second, "These
guys don't understand what they are getting into."

(http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000781.php

Greg

Why does it always have to be WMD's with you guys? You all seem to
forget the other hundred reasons that we should have kicked his butt!

Limited mental capacity on the part of the 'tard boy Liberals!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

From: Beerbarrel
Organization: Cox Communications
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:03:00 -0500
Subject: the church of bush

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:46:55 GMT, Greg wrote:



From: clifto
Organization: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:00:52 -0600
Subject: the church of bush

John Barnard wrote:
The war started with lies

Repeating that lie hasn't made it true yet, and it won't. But just for
entertainment purposes, why not cite us one of those lies?

All of this comes just as former Marine Corps General and former CENTCOM
commander Anthony Zinni has begun to speak out about the war in Iraq. Zinni
is the subject of a multiple page article in the Washington Post in which he
says "If I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. . . .
I don't care what happens to my career."

Zinni is indeed telling it like it is. To quote the Post:

"Iraq is in serious danger of coming apart because of lack of planning,
underestimating the task and buying into a flawed strategy," he says. "The
longer we stubbornly resist admitting the mistakes and not altering our
approach, the harder it will be to pull this chestnut out of the fire."

Apparently the time that Zinni turned against the Bush Administration (he
endorsed Bush in the 2000 election) was when he saw Vice President Dick
Cheney speak to a VFW convention.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of
mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them
to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Cheney's certitude bewildered Zinni. As chief of the Central Command, Zinni
had been immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar
with the intelligence analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire
weapons of mass destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the
intelligence, and never -- not once -- did it say, 'He has WMD.' "

That's right. Zinni says that "never ‹ not once ‹ did [the intelligence]
say, 'He has WMD.'" It was uncertain. It was always uncertain. Once Cheney
left the stage Zinni was conviced of two things: first, that the Bush
Administration was determined to invade and occupy Iraq. And, second, "These
guys don't understand what they are getting into."

(http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000781.php

Greg



Why does it always have to be WMD's with you guys? You all seem to
forget the other hundred reasons that we should have kicked his butt!

The subject is Bush's lies. Try to keep up.

Greg