wrote in message
oups.com...

[snip]

Here in Los Angeles, we've implemented HD Radio on AM 1110, Radio
Disney - a children's formatted music station. I would describe the
aural result as "startling" - 14 kHz stereo, very low noise, no
obviously noticable artifacts, no multi-path in an automotive
environment - in short, it's *very* hard to believe you're hearing an
AM station.

Compare this to a *typical* AM receiver (not necessarily a Drake R8B or
Eton E1/XM) with a mono 3.5 kHz response and loud buzzes evey time you
drive under a power line, and you can see the attractivness to the
Broadcasting community. "Here, finally is a way to compete with new
technologies" [programming issues aside!].


[snip]

Yes, but as you suggest, higher priced analog -- or older, as in
boatanchor -- radio technology outperforms the newer analog radios. But
people seem more interested in a radio's price rather than quality. Sharper
skirted filters, low distortion detectors and real noise limiters could now
be mainstreamed into current radios, if people were willing to pay a little
extra.

And things might have changed, but most people don't seem to have even half
an audiophiles interest in good sound. FM took a generation to catch up
with AM. AM stereo faded away. People are moving from CD quality to MP3
quality.

Good enough is plenty good as long as it's cheaper and more convienient.

Frank Dresser

wrote:
As has been discussed, HD Radio is not currently authorized on AM
stations at night, ("night is *not* defined as 6 AM to 6 PM, but rather
varies with a station's geographic location and the time of year)
though a serious lobbying effort is on to change this. Hence, at this
point it does not seriously impact DX opportunities, since most
long-range reception is a nighttime phenomenon (when the IBOC signals
are off).

From FCC Public Notice DA-03-831:
(http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/DA-03-831A1.pdf)

"Until further notice, AM stations must restrict IBOC operation to
daytime hours. An AM station with authority to operate between 6 a.m.
and local sunrise (pre-sunrise hours) and between local sunset and 6
p.m. (post-sunset hours) may operate its hybrid IBOC system during those
periods. "

As I read that, AM stations that are authorized to operate in analog
between the hours of 6am and 6pm are also authorized to operate IBOC
during those hours. Admittedly those two sentences could have been
worded a lot better!

That is indeed a different definition of "night" than the one the FCC
uses for determining whether a station should be on nighttime power
and/or antenna pattern. Mike's KDIS is required to reduce power from
50kw to 20kw at night, and that change is required to take place at
4:45pm. (for the next two days; it slips to 5pm on the 1st of January)
But as I read it, they can leave the IBOC on - on the lower power and
night directional pattern - until 6:00.

Again, my sense is that broadcasters are thinking that the analog
technology that served us well in the 20th Century has run its course,
and that to remain a viable medium a transition to digital *must* take
place. The trouble is that there are (probably) a half-billion analog
receivers in the USA alone capable of receiving analog AM / FM, and
these can't be abandoned overnight. The Station's around the country
are now in the first phase of implementing digital radio, in the form
of IBOC / HD Radio. And my bet is that it's *not* going to go away.

We are finding in TV just how slowly old receivers are being dropped.
In TV we have the advantage of cable and satellite operators doing the
downconversion for us in 85% of households - and the fact that a given
household has a relatively small number of TV receivers. Also, by using
an "in-band separate channel" conversion scheme, the new digital TV
signals result in little or no interference to existing analog service.
Even so it appears the transition will take more than ten years.

Radio doesn't have most of those advantages. Nobody will be
downconverting HD to analog for old receivers. Most households have
handfuls of radios - far more than they have TVs. For the millions of
us in outer suburbs (and the millions in lightly-populated and rural
areas), the interference will not be negligible. Especially on AM.

FM IBOC is certainly an upgrade for those who listen to mainstream
stations *and* live (and commute) in the core of the market. It is
likely to be a major unpleasant surprise for those who live in outer
suburbs and outlying towns.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Audio,good sound? www.pricewheeler.com Click on,Site Map and then
scroll down and click on,Audio Sites.Yes,I do own and use a Brickwall
surge filter,lifetime guarantee,you can't buy better than Brickwall,in
my opinion.
cuhulin

Kristoff Bonne wrote:

Gegroet,

dxAce schreef:
... FM IBOC is a headache as far as trying to receive rimshot stations
on first and second adjacent channels.

It's just like DRM... It's QRM!

And the same argument applies as for DRM. What is radio-bandwidth for?
For people to listen to a radio-station or for DX-ers to receive some
far-away station?

Far more people are interested in better audio-quality or additional
stations then DXing.

As far as there is no conflict between these two groups of people, no
problem; but if -as is now the case- the gouvernement has to chose
between one or the other; the choise is pretty easy.

And you can post "DRM = QRM" or "'tart boy" as much as you like; this
will not change the situation.

There's a new one... tart boy...

Think I'll use it.

Thanks,

dxAce
Michigan
USA

KB,

The same applies to the limited number of former High Powered
"Clear Channel" 50KW Radio Stations.

Many more Local 1KW, 5KW and 10KW Radios Stations serve more
People (Radio Listeners) and produce more Local Jobs and Revenue
plus Local Taxes that aggregate into a larger National Economy then
a Few Clear Channel Big Stations.

After all it is "The Broadcasting Business" and a Corporation with
a Hundred Local Radio Stations can make more Money; then a
Corporation with a Few High Powered Clear Channel Radio Stations.

jm2cw ~ RHF

www.krud.com
cuhulin

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:25:48 -0600, wrote:

www.krud.com
cuhulin

www.kdil.com

"Kristoff Bonne" wrote in message
...
Gegroet,

dxAce schreef:
... FM IBOC is a headache as far as trying to receive rimshot stations
on first and second adjacent channels.

It's just like DRM... It's QRM!

And the same argument applies as for DRM. What is radio-bandwidth for? For
people to listen to a radio-station or for DX-ers to receive some far-away
station?

Far more people are interested in better audio-quality or additional
stations then DXing.

As far as there is no conflict between these two groups of people, no
problem; but if -as is now the case- the gouvernement has to chose between
one or the other; the choise is pretty easy.

I can't speak for or against DRM, as I've never heard it. However, IBOC
*IS* a bad source of interference. And not just to DX'ers. Not everyone
lives in a big city, many (most?) live in suburbs or rural areas where there
is no 'local' radio station. These people of necessity must listen to what
are referred to as 'rimshots'. These are stations which are considered to
be on the far rim of a city's coverage area. Many of these are at only 400
KHz spacing from the stations in the cities, and are very prone to
interference from the IBOC digital signals from those second-adjacent
channels.

Even IN the cities, if someone likes to listen to a station in the next city
that has programming unavailable in their own city, this is now nearly
impossible.

As far as AM IBOC is concerned, it not only degrades reception of first and
second adjacent channels, it degrades reception of it's own analog on
channel signal, especially on radios designed with wider than 3 KHz IF
bandwidths (which includes most radios made in the 70's and before, of which
there are still tens of millions in use).

wrote:

Just because I am weird doesn't mean I am crazy.I just finished watching
The Great Escape movie on tv,A Bridge Too Far movie has just now started
on tv.I am trying to figure if I am weird enough to stay awoke and watch
that movie tonight.Nahhh,soon as I finish this cigarette,I am cutting
the light and hitting the sack.


You should start smoking in bed. Think of the convenience!






mike

In article .com,
wrote:

Snip

Here in Los Angeles, we've implemented HD Radio on AM 1110, Radio
Disney - a children's formatted music station. I would describe the
aural result as "startling" - 14 kHz stereo, very low noise, no
obviously noticable artifacts, no multi-path in an automotive
environment - in short, it's *very* hard to believe you're hearing an
AM station.

Compare this to a *typical* AM receiver (not necessarily a Drake R8B or
Eton E1/XM) with a mono 3.5 kHz response and loud buzzes evey time you
drive under a power line, and you can see the attractivness to the
Broadcasting community. "Here, finally is a way to compete with new
technologies" [programming issues aside!].

Snip

This is my main contention that this digital technology does not sound
better. It is still way to low a bit rate for me to call it "good
sounding." Yes, you don't get the static and power line noise but the
trade off is low quality sound filled with digital artifacts. Basically
you trade background noise and interference where it exists and trade
it for low quality sound all the time. Other trades are drop outs
instead of selective fading for example. This is just a mixed bag of
good and bad at the cost of obsoleting all receivers made since radio
began. I can't think of a worse trade off and it is just plain stupid to
try and cram it down the general publics throat.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California