I think you're better off starting on the right foot and then
expanding as you go along. Start with a Polyphaser and a good ground
line. Then add the rest as you go.



Okay, so I was looking at the ICE model 300/U at
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Produc.../impulse1.html.

There, it is stated that the device "may be mounted on flat surfaces,
grounding bulkheads, or through-mounted using dual stainless steel
grounding screws for mechanical fastening."

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.

Thanks again,

Junius

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

It's just that the quality of the ground line is a huge factor in the
safety of the system. A bulkhead point ground -- called a ground
window -- is the best. Next best is a ground strap. Why? Because
lightning is mostly RF and is subject to "skin effect" -- that is, it
travels mostly on the surface molecules of a conductor. Strap has the
most surface of any kind of wire. A controversial choice is braid,
but I won't go into why here because it's a long diversion. Last is a
simple copper wire to your ground -- in your case, the cold water
pipe.

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:12:35 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

... excerpted

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Well, my point was that if there is no ground nut on the Polyphaser,
there are other options that do not require going through an
expensive, bothersome-to-set-up grounding plate. The ICE device has
grounding nuts for a wire. I know other brands do, too. Whether they
are junk or not is subjective opinion.

I still say the best option, for a casual listener with limited funds,
is to simply disconnect the antenna, the ground wire and the power
line, depending on how stormy the weather is. The lightning arrestors
are pretty, and look neat, but a bolt of lightning can go through them
easily.

If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

Bob Miller wrote:

Well, my point was that if there is no ground nut on the Polyphaser,
there are other options that do not require going through an
expensive, bothersome-to-set-up grounding plate. The ICE device has
grounding nuts for a wire. I know other brands do, too. Whether they
are junk or not is subjective opinion.

Actually, not. They have been tested against each other, and one
particular brand is actually harmful -- that is, its design will
INCREASE the chance of damage to your equipment.

BTW, Polyphaser has a bolt that can be used to secure a ground wire --
it just happens to be there primarily to be bolted to a ground window
instead.


I still say the best option, for a casual listener with limited funds,
is to simply disconnect the antenna, the ground wire and the power
line, depending on how stormy the weather is. The lightning arrestors
are pretty, and look neat, but a bolt of lightning can go through them
easily.

....and I'm saying this isn't so. Lightning behaves in many
counterintuitive ways, but it is just a short, high-duration, damped
RF surge. If your system can handle the current for the short
duration, you're fine.

I speak from personal experience. From repeater sites to my car
(which, yes, does have Polyphaser protection in it!), the antenna and
coax are toast from the strike, but the radio gear survives intact.

Again, this is why commercial sites and broadcasters use Polyphaser,
and are rarely taken off the air by the many strikes their towers
take.


If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:18:23 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:



Again, this is why commercial sites and broadcasters use Polyphaser,
and are rarely taken off the air by the many strikes their towers
take.

True, but they also have ground systems in place, designed by
engineers and costing tens of thousands. Not many swls or hams (myself
included) are all that expert in installing a foolproof ground setup.

bob
k5qwg



If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

Bob Miller wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:18:23 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:



Again, this is why commercial sites and broadcasters use Polyphaser,
and are rarely taken off the air by the many strikes their towers
take.

True, but they also have ground systems in place, designed by
engineers and costing tens of thousands. Not many swls or hams (myself
included) are all that expert in installing a foolproof ground setup.

It doesn't take much money. It DOES take a completely anal attention
to detail.

I guarantee you I don't have tens of thousands in my ground system,
but I trust it against a direct strike and have experienced many close
(less than 500 feet) strikes near my home and one direct hit on my
car. All radio gear made it (except the stereo in the car, but it
wasn't behind a Polyphaser).


bob
k5qwg



If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:12:35 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

It's just that the quality of the ground line is a huge factor in the
safety of the system. A bulkhead point ground -- called a ground
window -- is the best. Next best is a ground strap. Why? Because
lightning is mostly RF and is subject to "skin effect" -- that is, it
travels mostly on the surface molecules of a conductor. Strap has the
most surface of any kind of wire.

One detail I've never seen described is the attachment of the copper
(flashing) strap to a ground rod. Is it adequate to simply tie it in
place with wire or perhaps wrap it around about 270 degrees and clinch
it with a couple of bars and some sort of anti-oxident?

A controversial choice is braid,
but I won't go into why here because it's a long diversion. Last is a
simple copper wire to your ground -- in your case, the cold water
pipe.

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

wrote:

One detail I've never seen described is the attachment of the copper
(flashing) strap to a ground rod. Is it adequate to simply tie it in
place with wire or perhaps wrap it around about 270 degrees and clinch
it with a couple of bars and some sort of anti-oxident?

I've tried clamps, with less than great success.

The "official" way to do it is to use an exothermic weld -- a small
thermite burn contained within molded clay around the ground rod and
strap to melt the two into each other. This has the advantage of no
welding material to break, and it's actually cheap.


--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:36:33 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

wrote:

One detail I've never seen described is the attachment of the copper
(flashing) strap to a ground rod. Is it adequate to simply tie it in
place with wire or perhaps wrap it around about 270 degrees and clinch
it with a couple of bars and some sort of anti-oxident?

I've tried clamps, with less than great success.

The "official" way to do it is to use an exothermic weld -- a small
thermite burn contained within molded clay around the ground rod and
strap to melt the two into each other. This has the advantage of no
welding material to break, and it's actually cheap.

That is pretty slick. After a few moments hesitation googling
the word thermite, (but dammit, that would be letting the terrorists
win,) I found a couple of interesting video clips and the Cadweld
website http://www.erico.com/ which offered ceramic and graphite molds
for a variety of similar applications. What type of clay that would be
appropriate here?

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:53:44 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:12:35 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

"junius" wrote:



One detail I've never seen described is the attachment of the copper
(flashing) strap to a ground rod. Is it adequate to simply tie it in
place with wire or perhaps wrap it around about 270 degrees and clinch
it with a couple of bars and some sort of anti-oxident?

Small U-bolts from the hardware store would be one way to go.

I personally use inexpensive hose clamps like you see on car radiator
hoses. I doubt they meet "code" but they work for my purposes.

bob
k5qwg



A controversial choice is braid,
but I won't go into why here because it's a long diversion. Last is a
simple copper wire to your ground -- in your case, the cold water
pipe.

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Eric

Thanks again,

Junius