On 20 Jan 2006 15:39:41 -0800, "junius" wrote:

They expect you to have your coax going through an expensive
Polyphaser grounding panel at your radio mains entrance, and the
lightning arrestor will automatically be grounded. What, no plate?
Then get another brand of arrestor that has a grounding screw :-)

One brand's as good as another; and none of them will actually do much
if you're directly hit by a good sizzler. Best bet is to disconnect
your antenna when it gets stormy. Or use an indoor antenna.

bob
k5qwg

Okay, so quite a few folks here have heaped praise on Polyphaser's
lightning protection devices, so I decided to have a look see at their
website. My interest in such devices is limited exclusively to
receive-only applications. I have a few questions which I hope that
someone here might be able to help me out on:

First off, up to now, the lightning protection units I've used were of
the variety that I would simply connect a grounding wire to the device.
Looking at the Polyphaser website, I'm seeing it specified that
Polyphaser's IS-50 units "should be mounted to a bracket or a flat
single point grounding panel." So, is it really required that these
units be "mounted" to something? Optimally, maybe I should have one,
but I'm afraid I don't have a "grounding panel" as such. Is it
inadequate simply to have a grounding wire connected to the device, as
might be done with a Transitrap or Zap Trapper unit?

Secondly, what exactly do they mean when it is stated that "This unit
is used primary on HF, UHF, and VHF radios that do not use a DC
voltage." Is this something pertaining specifically to ham
applications?

Thirdly, what are the differences between the IS-50 series and the B50
series. (I guess this gets into this mounting issue again?).

Thanks in advance for any help on these questions,

Junius

Bob Miller wrote:

On 20 Jan 2006 15:39:41 -0800, "junius" wrote:

They expect you to have your coax going through an expensive
Polyphaser grounding panel at your radio mains entrance, and the
lightning arrestor will automatically be grounded. What, no plate?
Then get another brand of arrestor that has a grounding screw :-)

One brand's as good as another; and none of them will actually do much
if you're directly hit by a good sizzler. Best bet is to disconnect
your antenna when it gets stormy. Or use an indoor antenna.

As a volunteer on several mountain-top repeater sites, I'd just like
to say that that is bull. Polyphaser and I.C.E. have good designs.
Other companies don't. I suggest you use Google to look up posts by
one Gary Coffman to explain the science behind it.

I think you're better off starting on the right foot and then
expanding as you go along. Start with a Polyphaser and a good ground
line. Then add the rest as you go. A ground window is nothing more
than a conductive plate -- get a sheet of aluminum or copper
elsewhere. Use copper flashing for strap. But don't confuse
Polyphaser for some Mississippi junk or greek-letter junk -- they
aren't in the same league.


OBTW, do your TV stations go off the air in lightning storms? The
ones here (excluding one *very* poorly run one) do not. Commercial
stations? nope. There's a reason for that -- they get hit all the
time, but their grounding systems handle the strikes just fine.


bob
k5qwg

Okay, so quite a few folks here have heaped praise on Polyphaser's
lightning protection devices, so I decided to have a look see at their
website. My interest in such devices is limited exclusively to
receive-only applications. I have a few questions which I hope that
someone here might be able to help me out on:

First off, up to now, the lightning protection units I've used were of
the variety that I would simply connect a grounding wire to the device.
Looking at the Polyphaser website, I'm seeing it specified that
Polyphaser's IS-50 units "should be mounted to a bracket or a flat
single point grounding panel." So, is it really required that these
units be "mounted" to something? Optimally, maybe I should have one,
but I'm afraid I don't have a "grounding panel" as such. Is it
inadequate simply to have a grounding wire connected to the device, as
might be done with a Transitrap or Zap Trapper unit?

Secondly, what exactly do they mean when it is stated that "This unit
is used primary on HF, UHF, and VHF radios that do not use a DC
voltage." Is this something pertaining specifically to ham
applications?

Thirdly, what are the differences between the IS-50 series and the B50
series. (I guess this gets into this mounting issue again?).

Thanks in advance for any help on these questions,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert

I think you're better off starting on the right foot and then
expanding as you go along. Start with a Polyphaser and a good ground
line. Then add the rest as you go.



Okay, so I was looking at the ICE model 300/U at
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Produc.../impulse1.html.

There, it is stated that the device "may be mounted on flat surfaces,
grounding bulkheads, or through-mounted using dual stainless steel
grounding screws for mechanical fastening."

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.

Thanks again,

Junius

Mississippi junk? I will have y'all KNOW Brickwall Surge Protectors are
Manufactured in San Diego,California,Made in America and Guaranteed for
Life.Mississippi junk? Do y'all know where the new USS New York Ship is
being made right now? I am Born and Raised in MISSISSIPPI,dont call ME
Mississippi junk!!!!
cuhulin,MISSISSIPPI

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

It's just that the quality of the ground line is a huge factor in the
safety of the system. A bulkhead point ground -- called a ground
window -- is the best. Next best is a ground strap. Why? Because
lightning is mostly RF and is subject to "skin effect" -- that is, it
travels mostly on the surface molecules of a conductor. Strap has the
most surface of any kind of wire. A controversial choice is braid,
but I won't go into why here because it's a long diversion. Last is a
simple copper wire to your ground -- in your case, the cold water
pipe.

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

Would you PLEASE shut up and go away, you inbred,
too-stoopid-to-use-a-computer mental midget and take all your rambling
nonsense with you?

This guy is looking for genuine help and YOU. AREN'T. HELPING.


wrote:

Mississippi junk? I will have y'all KNOW Brickwall Surge Protectors are
Manufactured in San Diego,California,Made in America and Guaranteed for
Life.Mississippi junk? Do y'all know where the new USS New York Ship is
being made right now? I am Born and Raised in MISSISSIPPI,dont call ME
Mississippi junk!!!!
cuhulin,MISSISSIPPI

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:12:35 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

... excerpted

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Well, my point was that if there is no ground nut on the Polyphaser,
there are other options that do not require going through an
expensive, bothersome-to-set-up grounding plate. The ICE device has
grounding nuts for a wire. I know other brands do, too. Whether they
are junk or not is subjective opinion.

I still say the best option, for a casual listener with limited funds,
is to simply disconnect the antenna, the ground wire and the power
line, depending on how stormy the weather is. The lightning arrestors
are pretty, and look neat, but a bolt of lightning can go through them
easily.

If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

Bob Miller wrote:

Well, my point was that if there is no ground nut on the Polyphaser,
there are other options that do not require going through an
expensive, bothersome-to-set-up grounding plate. The ICE device has
grounding nuts for a wire. I know other brands do, too. Whether they
are junk or not is subjective opinion.

Actually, not. They have been tested against each other, and one
particular brand is actually harmful -- that is, its design will
INCREASE the chance of damage to your equipment.

BTW, Polyphaser has a bolt that can be used to secure a ground wire --
it just happens to be there primarily to be bolted to a ground window
instead.


I still say the best option, for a casual listener with limited funds,
is to simply disconnect the antenna, the ground wire and the power
line, depending on how stormy the weather is. The lightning arrestors
are pretty, and look neat, but a bolt of lightning can go through them
easily.

....and I'm saying this isn't so. Lightning behaves in many
counterintuitive ways, but it is just a short, high-duration, damped
RF surge. If your system can handle the current for the short
duration, you're fine.

I speak from personal experience. From repeater sites to my car
(which, yes, does have Polyphaser protection in it!), the antenna and
coax are toast from the strike, but the radio gear survives intact.

Again, this is why commercial sites and broadcasters use Polyphaser,
and are rarely taken off the air by the many strikes their towers
take.


If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:18:23 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:



Again, this is why commercial sites and broadcasters use Polyphaser,
and are rarely taken off the air by the many strikes their towers
take.

True, but they also have ground systems in place, designed by
engineers and costing tens of thousands. Not many swls or hams (myself
included) are all that expert in installing a foolproof ground setup.

bob
k5qwg



If an arrestor it is to be, I notice http://www/thewireman.com has the
ICE arrestors with a device to attach them directly to a ground rod.
(Good place to buy antenna stuff.)

bob
k5qwg



Eric

Thanks again,

Junius

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:12:35 -0700, Eric F. Richards
wrote:

"junius" wrote:

So, in the last specified installation method -- "through-mount[ing]"
w/the grounding screws -- are we basically talking about the same sorta
installation as we would do with a Zap Trapper or Transitrap (i.e.
connecting the grounding wire to the device at the grounding screws)?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; would just like to confirm whether
I've got this right or not, since I'd rather not purchase something
that my present listening location would prevent me from being able to
appropriately install.


Either the Polyphaser or the I.C.E. can be connected to a ground line.

It's just that the quality of the ground line is a huge factor in the
safety of the system. A bulkhead point ground -- called a ground
window -- is the best. Next best is a ground strap. Why? Because
lightning is mostly RF and is subject to "skin effect" -- that is, it
travels mostly on the surface molecules of a conductor. Strap has the
most surface of any kind of wire.

One detail I've never seen described is the attachment of the copper
(flashing) strap to a ground rod. Is it adequate to simply tie it in
place with wire or perhaps wrap it around about 270 degrees and clinch
it with a couple of bars and some sort of anti-oxident?

A controversial choice is braid,
but I won't go into why here because it's a long diversion. Last is a
simple copper wire to your ground -- in your case, the cold water
pipe.

Bottom line: Given the same type of ground (in your case, a wire),
the Polyphasers and the I.C.E. will outperform the others.

Go ahead and use an I.C.E. or Polyphaser with a ground wire.

Eric

Thanks again,

Junius