I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original Grundig
box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned with
shipping it the same as I got it from Drake. I am just wondering if UPS or
FEDEX wrecks the radio if I could have insurance problems paying off for
inadequate packing. I think Drake would know how to ship expensive radios
but it sure doesn't seem like enough packing to me. Should I be concerned?
Should I go to the trouble to double box it again? I don't understand why
Drake would not pack it as well as when I shipped it to them. I don't have
the extra packing material so I would have to get it. I don't have the extra
box nor packing since I sent it to Drake.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original
Grundig box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned
with shipping it the same as I got it from Drake. I am just wondering if
UPS or FEDEX wrecks the radio if I could have insurance problems paying off
for inadequate packing. I think Drake would know how to ship expensive
radios but it sure doesn't seem like enough packing to me. Should I be
concerned? Should I go to the trouble to double box it again? I don't
understand why Drake would not pack it as well as when I shipped it to
them. I don't have the extra packing material so I would have to get it. I
don't have the extra box nor packing since I sent it to Drake.


In general, original packing should be adequate to insure safe arrival under
normal shipping conditions, that's what it's designed for. However,
whenever I ship anything that costs more than $100, I will always pack it in
at least one more box in bubble wrap.. it's worth it for the peace of mind.

Curiosity.. how much you thinking of selling the 800 for?

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original
Grundig box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned
with shipping it the same as I got it from Drake. I am just wondering if
UPS or FEDEX wrecks the radio if I could have insurance problems paying
off for inadequate packing. I think Drake would know how to ship expensive
radios but it sure doesn't seem like enough packing to me. Should I be
concerned? Should I go to the trouble to double box it again? I don't
understand why Drake would not pack it as well as when I shipped it to
them. I don't have the extra packing material so I would have to get it. I
don't have the extra box nor packing since I sent it to Drake.


In general, original packing should be adequate to insure safe arrival
under normal shipping conditions, that's what it's designed for. However,
whenever I ship anything that costs more than $100, I will always pack it
in at least one more box in bubble wrap.. it's worth it for the peace of
mind.

Curiosity.. how much you thinking of selling the 800 for?

I have a tuning knob ordered from Mike Maghakian. I'll probably play with it
a bit before I sell it. Max would probably be $350 shipped and insured
without the headphones. I love the size of the radio but I just don't have
room for it. I may pick up an R75. I bought it new from Universal this year.
I have the receipt. Heck I might even do some trading.

Bill

Double boxing in a haphazared manner is not as good as packing it with
proper packing material in a single box. Generally, the original box and
packing is designed to transfer the stress to the item shipped without
damage.

I have received packages that were double boxed, but the packing material
was simply foam pellets with very little spacing. Foam pellets can shift,
or the box can be torn with damange to the contents.

Rigid foam that is form fitted is excellent. Damage is often the result of
mass times acceleration. What packing tries to accomplish is reduce
acceleration - or decelleration.

An SB-220 wrapped in a pair of old pants, or a Johnson Ranger in a
grapefruit box and a banana box with no packing material is not adequate.

Colin K7FM

Bill wrote:
I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original Grundig
box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned with
shipping it the same as I got it from Drake. I am just wondering if UPS or
FEDEX wrecks the radio if I could have insurance problems paying off for
inadequate packing. I think Drake would know how to ship expensive radios
but it sure doesn't seem like enough packing to me. Should I be concerned?
Should I go to the trouble to double box it again? I don't understand why
Drake would not pack it as well as when I shipped it to them. I don't have
the extra packing material so I would have to get it. I don't have the extra
box nor packing since I sent it to Drake.

Bill

Double boxing is overkill IF you pack it correctly in a single-sided
box. The same effect of another box and 2 inches of foam could could
be gotten with a larger single box. Some people feel more comfortable
knowing their new purchase is coming inside 2 boxes, but I think the
comfort is largely illusory.

If you wrap that radio in bubble wrap and fill in with 3 inches of foam
peanuts it will take a lot to damage that relatively light radio.

I worked for Purolator some 30 years ago and if the carton was marked
fragile, there were a lot of employees that would try for the conversion
kick. If they had a hint that anything of value was contained therein .....
it often got written off. The postal employees were even worse!
"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...

Bill wrote:
I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it
with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original
Grundig
box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned with
shipping it the same as I got it from Drake. I am just wondering if UPS
or
FEDEX wrecks the radio if I could have insurance problems paying off for
inadequate packing. I think Drake would know how to ship expensive
radios
but it sure doesn't seem like enough packing to me. Should I be
concerned?
Should I go to the trouble to double box it again? I don't understand
why
Drake would not pack it as well as when I shipped it to them. I don't
have
the extra packing material so I would have to get it. I don't have the
extra
box nor packing since I sent it to Drake.

Bill

Double boxing is overkill IF you pack it correctly in a single-sided
box. The same effect of another box and 2 inches of foam could could
be gotten with a larger single box. Some people feel more comfortable
knowing their new purchase is coming inside 2 boxes, but I think the
comfort is largely illusory.

If you wrap that radio in bubble wrap and fill in with 3 inches of foam
peanuts it will take a lot to damage that relatively light radio.

I've resisted jumping into these conversations about shipping, but since I
own an independent "pack & ship" store, have three AMPC certifications in
packing and shipping in the small parcel environment and I'm a ham, I
thought it was time for a comment or two.

Here are a few facts that should influence how you think about packaging:

1) A corrugated cardboard box loses 60% of its strength after one shipment.
For that reason, I almost never ship in a used box, unless the contents are
something like used clothing where strength is less important.

2) The original packaging - especially the styrofoam - is generally
optimized for the particular item. It's good to reuse, but special
attention must be given to the box. Many items are shipped on pallets. The
corrugated boxes used to do so are much less strong that those used for the
small parcel (FedEx, UPS, DHL, USPS) environment. In these cases, I will
used the optimized styrofoam, but will double-box.

3) Not all packaging materials are created equal. In general, air
cushioning works well (bubble wrap, pillow pads), but other times foam is
better. Polystyrene is different than styrofoam. The primary factors are
flex (the ability to absorb impact) and resilience (the ability to return to
shape after impact). Foam-in-place is used in some applications, but it has
poor resilience. For this reason, I don't use it in my store.

4) The small parcel environment is largely automated these days. Items are
barcoded early on in their travels. These barcodes are used to determine
the routing of the parcel. Parcels are generally routed to a sorting center
where they are dumped into a chute and on to conveyor belts. Sorting
equipment scans the barcodes and decides which is the next belt is should be
shifted to . Shifting from one belt to another is accomplished by means of
a steel plate that "shoves" (and not so gently) the parcel to its next belt.

5) For items of average fragility, the accepted standard is that the item
should have at least 2 inches of padding on all sides. The padding used
must take into account the weight of the item and the cushioning curve of
the packaging materials (a little too much to delve into here).
For a ham radio, I would package it by double boxing it. At least 3 inches
of padding on the inside box and at least 2 inches between boxes.

6) As a rule of thumb, I package every item so that it can survive a drop
from 4 feet onto a hard floor.

7) Some items are simply not acceptable for the small parcel environment
because of their size, weight and/or fragility. These items are more
suitable for crating and shipping via truck or a blanket-wrap service.


As far as carriers, I'll share my experience. The store I own is
independent, so I use all carriers. I have no particular axe to grind.
These are my own opinions derived from my own experience:

UPS: Good reliability, but a well-earned reputation for finding any reason
not to pay damage claims. Lower cost to Canada. More expensive for most
ground shipments. Union (teamster) employees.

FedEx Express: Like the old commercial "When it absolutely positively has to
be there overnight...", there's nobody better. If it's mission-critical, I
send it FedEx Express. Expensive, but worth it. Employees, but (I believe)
non-union.

FedEx Ground (formerly RPS): An unmitigated disaster. Almost every time
I've used FedEx Ground, it has been a problem resulting in a refund to an
unhappy customer. FedEx Ground does use independent contractors who buy
both the route and the vehicles and operate as 1099 independents. About a
third of independents responding to an informal survey agreed. The other
two thirds had different experiences. Some were much better. In my
opinion, FedEx Ground is doing untold damage to the FedEx brand name.

DHL (includes the former Airborne): An excellent competitor with a good
delivery history. Actually bigger than FedEx and UPS combined, though much
of their size comes from EU operations. Internationally there's nobody who
can touch them. They're both faster and less expensive than FedEx Express
to almost every international destination. They use some independent
contractors but are moving away from that position. Other employees are
teamsters. For most parcels, DHL is the least expensive alternative.

I hope that adds something useful to the conversation.

Charlie, KS1C

OK you got them all but the USPO. Got an opinion ?

Charlie wrote:
I've resisted jumping into these conversations about shipping, but since I
own an independent "pack & ship" store, have three AMPC certifications in
packing and shipping in the small parcel environment and I'm a ham, I
thought it was time for a comment or two.

Here are a few facts that should influence how you think about packaging:

1) A corrugated cardboard box loses 60% of its strength after one shipment.
For that reason, I almost never ship in a used box, unless the contents are
something like used clothing where strength is less important.

2) The original packaging - especially the styrofoam - is generally
optimized for the particular item. It's good to reuse, but special
attention must be given to the box. Many items are shipped on pallets. The
corrugated boxes used to do so are much less strong that those used for the
small parcel (FedEx, UPS, DHL, USPS) environment. In these cases, I will
used the optimized styrofoam, but will double-box.

3) Not all packaging materials are created equal. In general, air
cushioning works well (bubble wrap, pillow pads), but other times foam is
better. Polystyrene is different than styrofoam. The primary factors are
flex (the ability to absorb impact) and resilience (the ability to return to
shape after impact). Foam-in-place is used in some applications, but it has
poor resilience. For this reason, I don't use it in my store.

4) The small parcel environment is largely automated these days. Items are
barcoded early on in their travels. These barcodes are used to determine
the routing of the parcel. Parcels are generally routed to a sorting center
where they are dumped into a chute and on to conveyor belts. Sorting
equipment scans the barcodes and decides which is the next belt is should be
shifted to . Shifting from one belt to another is accomplished by means of
a steel plate that "shoves" (and not so gently) the parcel to its next belt.

5) For items of average fragility, the accepted standard is that the item
should have at least 2 inches of padding on all sides. The padding used
must take into account the weight of the item and the cushioning curve of
the packaging materials (a little too much to delve into here).
For a ham radio, I would package it by double boxing it. At least 3 inches
of padding on the inside box and at least 2 inches between boxes.

6) As a rule of thumb, I package every item so that it can survive a drop
from 4 feet onto a hard floor.

7) Some items are simply not acceptable for the small parcel environment
because of their size, weight and/or fragility. These items are more
suitable for crating and shipping via truck or a blanket-wrap service.


As far as carriers, I'll share my experience. The store I own is
independent, so I use all carriers. I have no particular axe to grind.
These are my own opinions derived from my own experience:

UPS: Good reliability, but a well-earned reputation for finding any reason
not to pay damage claims. Lower cost to Canada. More expensive for most
ground shipments. Union (teamster) employees.

FedEx Express: Like the old commercial "When it absolutely positively has to
be there overnight...", there's nobody better. If it's mission-critical, I
send it FedEx Express. Expensive, but worth it. Employees, but (I believe)
non-union.

FedEx Ground (formerly RPS): An unmitigated disaster. Almost every time
I've used FedEx Ground, it has been a problem resulting in a refund to an
unhappy customer. FedEx Ground does use independent contractors who buy
both the route and the vehicles and operate as 1099 independents. About a
third of independents responding to an informal survey agreed. The other
two thirds had different experiences. Some were much better. In my
opinion, FedEx Ground is doing untold damage to the FedEx brand name.

DHL (includes the former Airborne): An excellent competitor with a good
delivery history. Actually bigger than FedEx and UPS combined, though much
of their size comes from EU operations. Internationally there's nobody who
can touch them. They're both faster and less expensive than FedEx Express
to almost every international destination. They use some independent
contractors but are moving away from that position. Other employees are
teamsters. For most parcels, DHL is the least expensive alternative.

I hope that adds something useful to the conversation.

Charlie, KS1C

A few months ago I mailed a Satellit 800 to The Netherlands via USPS Airmail
Parcel Post. Used the original box and packing exactly as I received it from
Grundig / Eton... nothing else. Arrived in perfect shape in about 10 days.

The radio should have arrived from Grundig in a color product box that's
within a heavy brown outer carton... so Grundig does double box them.

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..

I shipped my Grundig SAT 800 to Drake for updates. I double boxed it with
plenty of packing. When I got it back it came with only the original
Grundig box and packing. I'm thinking of selling my 800 and am concerned
with shipping it the same as I got it from Drake.

Hprecdocks,

The inner 'box' is called the Retail Display Box.

The Other "Box" is call the Distribution Shipping Box.

This 'dual' packaging Box System is designed to work
together for both Store-to-Store Shipping and then
In-Store Display of the available stock.

jm2cw ~ RHF