On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:45:31 -0600, "H Davis" hdavis@(no
spam)ntsource.com wrote:

Hi Harlan,

This seems to be a significant clue:
since the radios do not accept the same plug.

snip

This setup left me able to receive more than I could with about 25 feet of
multistrand, speaker wire tossed out the basement window and anchored up in
a tree next to the window, but it is noisy. Lots of static, but turning off
various things (computers, fluorescent lights, dimmers, etc.) doesn't seem
to reduce the noise. I noticed that when attaching the antenna to the whip,
I was getting pretty good reception and less noise when the alligator clip
was about two inches from the whip. For some reason I decided to wrap about
50 loops of the #14 insulated wire around a piece of 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe
and bare one end of the coil for attachment to the alligator clips. I
slipped the coil over the whip, attached the clip to the bare portion of the
wire forming the coil and I get pretty decent reception with less noise that
with the clip attached directly to the whip. Clipping the alligators to the
insulation on the end of the coil I get even less noise, and still pretty
decent reception.

Why does this work? Is there anything else I can do with the current setup
to improve things? Until spring arrives I'm not even going to think about an
outside antenna. What mistakes did I make? How is the current setup going to
limit reception on various bands? How will it improve reception relative to
just the whip (which is kind of useless in the basement, anyway)?

Did I do anything right? Did I do anything wrong? I see SWL as essentially
experimenting with antenna configurations. Is this a valid way to look at
it?

Harlan

You are on the right path. However, as to the "clue" above. I am not
familiar with the specific models, but I have every suspicion that the
whip antenna is for FM only, and AM/SW is achieved through either a
ferrite bar antenna inside, or an external connection, or both. Your
windings are not really coupling into the whip but rather this
internal antenna, and they are still too far apart. However, barring
a more detailed description, this is just a guess.

Do your receivers have any kind of jack that is not audio or power?
Chances are that is an external antenna connection, especially if
there is a switch nearby. If so, that is the proper way in with your
wire antenna and it will make a significant difference. I say this
because it sounds like the noise is from your having the gain set all
the way up, and what would be strong signals are competing with weak
noise. The reason why the strong signals are not booming in, is you
haven't made a good connection. The other possible answer is that you
are in fact deep in a very noisy environment and your antenna is doing
the best it can.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

Perhaps I led you astray with that comment regarding different plugs. I
should have said that both radios have external antenna plugs, but they
require different types of plugs. The Grundig takes a 1/8 inch mono plug
such as the type usually used for mono earphones. The Sangean takes a
different plug from what I understand, so I decided to compromise and use
the clip and attach the external antenna via the alligator clip rather than
try to switch plugs each time I want to switch radios. By the way, both
radios use the whip and/or the external antenna for SW. If I don't have
access to an external antenna, both radios require the full extension of the
whip for SW.

Richard, in reading all I can about the subject of using alligator clips or
plugs for the external antenna, I got the impression that the clip would
yield a good connection if you couldn't use the plug. I think what you are
telling me is that isn't the case. Of course, it stands to reasons that if
the radios have a provision for plugging in an external antenna, that would
be the ideal connection.

Thanks for commenting, Richard; this is a great forum to learn from others.


Harlan





"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:45:31 -0600, "H Davis" hdavis@(no
spam)ntsource.com wrote:

Hi Harlan,

This seems to be a significant clue:
since the radios do not accept the same plug.

You are on the right path. However, as to the "clue" above. I am not
familiar with the specific models, but I have every suspicion that the
whip antenna is for FM only, and AM/SW is achieved through either a
ferrite bar antenna inside, or an external connection, or both. Your
windings are not really coupling into the whip but rather this
internal antenna, and they are still too far apart. However, barring
a more detailed description, this is just a guess.

Do your receivers have any kind of jack that is not audio or power?
Chances are that is an external antenna connection, especially if
there is a switch nearby. If so, that is the proper way in with your
wire antenna and it will make a significant difference. I say this
because it sounds like the noise is from your having the gain set all
the way up, and what would be strong signals are competing with weak
noise. The reason why the strong signals are not booming in, is you
haven't made a good connection. The other possible answer is that you
are in fact deep in a very noisy environment and your antenna is doing
the best it can.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:24:30 -0600, "H Davis" hdavis@(no
spam)ntsource.com wrote:

Richard:

Perhaps I led you astray with that comment regarding different plugs. I
should have said that both radios have external antenna plugs, but they
require different types of plugs. The Grundig takes a 1/8 inch mono plug
such as the type usually used for mono earphones. The Sangean takes a
different plug from what I understand,

Why don't you go to Radio Shack, and get the two kinds of plugs you
need, and then attach both to the center conductor of your coax, using
a little hook-up wire and solder. Then just plug the antenna directly
into each radio. You seem to be getting too many variables from
clipping onto your whip.

It's also possible the proper plugs came with each radio, no need to
go to Radio shack.

Learning about plugs is a part of SWLing :-)


Bob
k5qwg

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:24:30 -0600, "H Davis" hdavis@(no
spam)ntsource.com wrote:

Richard:

Perhaps I led you astray with that comment regarding different plugs. I
should have said that both radios have external antenna plugs, but they
require different types of plugs. The Grundig takes a 1/8 inch mono plug
such as the type usually used for mono earphones. The Sangean takes a
different plug from what I understand, so I decided to compromise and use
the clip and attach the external antenna via the alligator clip rather than
try to switch plugs each time I want to switch radios. By the way, both
radios use the whip and/or the external antenna for SW. If I don't have
access to an external antenna, both radios require the full extension of the
whip for SW.

One question that is unanswered: is there a switch near either of
those input jacks? Might be labeled local/dx.

Richard, in reading all I can about the subject of using alligator clips or
plugs for the external antenna, I got the impression that the clip would
yield a good connection if you couldn't use the plug. I think what you are
telling me is that isn't the case. Of course, it stands to reasons that if
the radios have a provision for plugging in an external antenna, that would
be the ideal connection.

Thanks for commenting, Richard; this is a great forum to learn from others.


Harlan

Hi Harlan,

The variation of where you clip it to the whip suggests the whip is
not directly connected to the SW path (because it simply doesn't go
there, or this switch I have supposed, is in the wrong position, or
both).

Anyway, I will offer a list of stations I can get here, in Seattle,
that come in full tilt boogie. If you couldn't duplicate this
experience, you have a switch/path problem (and I doubt both sets
would suffer identically unless your wire was broken one foot from the
clip).

Anyway, in the form of a quote, my ad-hoc log:

Our time 9 AM (1600 UT) for an hour
on 11650 KHz (or 11.650 MHz)
Radio Australia (noted by its interval signal of "Waltzing Matilda").

10 AM (1700 UT)
on 11710 KHz
Japanese Language program

10 AM (1700 UT)
on 11750 KHz; 11795 KHz; 11945 KHz; 11995 KHz
Far Eastern music mixed with other signals (less so at 11945)

10 AM (1700 UT)
on 11880 KHz
Radio Australia

10:30 AM (1730 UT)
on 9505 KHz; 11970 KHz
Swing music and talk about genetically modified corn in corn chips from Radio Japan (NHK)

10:45 AM (1745 UT)
on 17605 KHz
French language program

11 AM (1800 UT)
on 17640 KHz
Far Eastern music program

11:30 AM (1830 UT)
on 17705 KHz
Spanish language program

11:30 AM (1830 UT)
on 17785 KHz
French language program (probably VOA)

12 PM (1900 UT)
on 17860 KHz
German language program (DW)

12 PM (1900 UT)
on 17870 KHz
French language program (Radio Canada)

12 PM (1900 UT)
on 17895 KHz
Mixed music program (VOA)

12 PM (1900 UT)
on 21590 KHz
Interview program about helicopters (Radio Netherlands)

12 :30 PM (1930 UT)
on 117850 KHz
Far eastern music

======== Now at a later time, in the evening he

8 PM (0300 UT)
on 5950 KHz
news in english from Radio Taiwan

8 PM (0300 UT)
on 5960 KHz
Japanese language program (NHK)

8 PM (0300 UT)
on 5975 KHz
health program from BBC

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 5950 KHz
news in Spanish from BBC

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 9450 KHz
program in Russian (possibly Radio Moscow or VOA)

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 9460 KHz
program in mid eastern music

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 9575 KHz
news in english for western pacific from VOA

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 9590 KHz; 9640 KHz
news in German (CBC, Radio Canada)

8:30 PM (0330 UT)
on 9640 KHz
program in German (possibly DW)


73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC, WPE0EPH