Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

On Apr 23, 6:40 pm, Cecil Moore wrote:

Maybe if I simplified it to V^2/R, you would recognize
it as joules/sec?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

What I said was, V^2 does not have units of Joules per second.
There's nothing to argue about here, Cecil.

ac6xg

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
The context of your remark, which you have now deleted, was "energy
from EM waves". The little capacitors in a charge coupled device store
the light energy until it is read-out and converted to digital.

The context was "EM wave energy that remains unchanged
without being converted to some other form of energy".
If that context was not clear to you, I apologize.

When I say "EM wave energy", I am not talking about extracting
energy from EM waves. I am talking about energy continuing
to exist in the form of EM waves while obeying all the
boundary conditions for EM waves.

The energy in RF standing waves is recovered during the
power-down transient period as EM wave energy, not as
a DC charge on a capacitor. That means that the energy
in the standing waves is not standing still since EM
energy must necessarily move at the speed of light, c(VF).
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Maybe if I simplified it to V^2/R, you would recognize
it as joules/sec?

What I said was, V^2 does not have units of Joules per second.
There's nothing to argue about here, Cecil.

I said:
Squaring both sides of the above equation to obtain
joules/sec:

b1^2 = |s11(a1)|^2 + 2*s11(a1)*s12(a2) + |s12(a2)|^2

you responded:
Voltage squared does not EQUAL joules/sec (still).

Nice CYA, Jim, but the context was the normalized
voltages used in the s-parameter analysis. I posted
the s-parameter equation, b1 = s11(a1) + s12(a2) = 0,
and said that squaring it yields joules/sec. Your
statement was in direct response to that statement
of mine.

If you knew that squaring an s-parameter normalized
voltage yields joules/sec and still made that misleading
statement, you were deliberately engaging in false
implications. Why are you more interested in
obfuscation than in the truth?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Additional Hint: Try storing the energy in a light wave
in a capacitor.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:59:12 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

When I say "EM wave energy", I am not talking about extracting
energy from EM waves.

Hmmm. energy in a light wave is separate and distinct from energy from
EM waves. Must be the subtle distinction between "in" and "from"
waves.

Well, now that Vaudeville is dead, the entertainment value has gone to
hell.

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:
The context of your remark, which you have now deleted, was "energy
from EM waves". The little capacitors in a charge coupled device store
the light energy until it is read-out and converted to digital.

The context was "EM wave energy that remains unchanged
without being converted to some other form of energy".
If that context was not clear to you, I apologize.

When I say "EM wave energy", I am not talking about extracting
energy from EM waves. I am talking about energy continuing
to exist in the form of EM waves while obeying all the
boundary conditions for EM waves.

The energy in RF standing waves is recovered during the
power-down transient period as EM wave energy, not as
a DC charge on a capacitor. That means that the energy
in the standing waves is not standing still since EM
energy must necessarily move at the speed of light, c(VF).


Cecil,

The generally accepted description for energy density in an
electromagnetic field is:

W = 1/2 (E dot D + B dot H)

All the variables on the right side are vectors. The total energy can be
determined by integrating over the volume of interest, of course. This
relationship holds for either static or time-dependent fields. You can
find this equation in virtually any E&M textbook, but I can provide
specific references if needed.

Do you have a definition for "EM wave energy" that differs from the
standard equation? Are there multiple forms of electromagnetic energy?
Is is necessary to convert "to some other form of energy" when the
entire problem is about electromagnetic fields?

Inquiring minds want to know.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Maybe if I simplified it to V^2/R, you would recognize
it as joules/sec?


What I said was, V^2 does not have units of Joules per second.
There's nothing to argue about here, Cecil.


I said:
Squaring both sides of the above equation to obtain
joules/sec:

b1^2 = |s11(a1)|^2 + 2*s11(a1)*s12(a2) + |s12(a2)|^2

you responded:
Voltage squared does not EQUAL joules/sec (still).

Nice CYA, Jim, but the context was the normalized
voltages used in the s-parameter analysis.

CYA?

I posted
the s-parameter equation, b1 = s11(a1) + s12(a2) = 0,
and said that squaring it yields joules/sec. Your
statement was in direct response to that statement
of mine.

Yes. The statement was intended to point out to you that squaring an
equation expressed in units of volts does not convert the expression
to power in units of Joules per second.

If you knew that squaring an s-parameter normalized
voltage yields joules/sec and still made that misleading
statement, you were deliberately engaging in false
implications. Why are you more interested in
obfuscation than in the truth?

You can't possibly believe that the impedances in the problem we're
discussing are all 50 ohms.

ac6xg

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Imin = I1 + I2 +2*SQRT(I1*I2) = 0 equation (16b)


Typo there - should be:

Imin = I1 + I2 - 2*SQRT(I1*I2) = 0 equation (16b)

So, was it also a typo when you squared s11(a1) + s12(a2) = 0 and
claimed that s11(a1)^2 = s12(a2)^2 = 1 Joule/sec? :-)

ac6xg

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

If that context was not clear to you, I apologize.

The context, and your misunderstanding, were both perfectly clear to me.

The apology should be for the unfounded character assaults you
routinely administer to people here on the newsgroup who attempt to
engage you in reasoned discourse.

73, Jim AC6XG

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
Is is necessary to convert "to some other form of energy" when the
entire problem is about electromagnetic fields?

Yes, it is necessary to convert to some other form
of energy if the energy is not moving. EM wave energy
cannot stop moving.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Analyzing Stub Matching with Reflection Coefficients
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
The statement was intended to point out to you that squaring an
equation expressed in units of volts does not convert the expression to
power in units of Joules per second.

But the equation that I squared was *NOT* expressed
in volts. So what was your agenda in implying a
falsehood?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com