For a moment I can ignore the capacitive and inductive constituents
of a radiator and concentrate on "skin depth" Ignoring my premise
that the surface is covered with free electrons that are expelled
from a energy storage system. I look at a piece of aluminum
as a raw material which is measured and placed within a vacuum.
Since it is accepted that skin depth is a volume that is decaying
it would appear that the loss of this volume could be a subject of
measurement. By the same token we could remove a radiator from an
array
and also place that part after measurement to quantisize the
.. the amount of decay and compare the differences.
We could then examine the decayed remanants to determine its
properties.
Has this been done and what were the findings?
This would certainly help it determining how the material forming the
skin
got there in the first place!
Question arise whether the skin material comes from the atmosphere
or from a regenerative property of the material itself thus ruling out
the sino soidal applied energy. .( Ignoring the obvious question as
to
how the energy got past the capacitance while retaining it's initial
properties).
Bear in mind that present calculations are based on the understanding
that
a sino soidal current is present at every segment point that can be
chosen
which then allows the presence of a time variant at each and every
point
on a radiator.(This an alternative to my viewing the radiator as a
tank circuit)
Ofcourse if you already know of a book that shows how the skin
surface
materialises from the beginning and methodically replaced as it moves
from the surface to the innards of the radiator, please let me know.
Regards
Art

No !!!!!!!!!
Every thing is known.
It must be in the books of Kraus and you know who.
I keep reading that the theories of radiation is well known
and widely accepted, so what is widely accepted in this area?
Is the "rust" of aluminium called bauxite by any chance?
And is it diamagnetic?
Art

Christopher Cox wrote:
Sputtering?

BTW, lots of luck with that subject, it would seem there is little
understanding on the field of study other than it works.

art wrote in news:09534116-d261-4f5d-aeea-
:

No !!!!!!!!!
Every thing is known.
It must be in the books of Kraus and you know who.
I keep reading that the theories of radiation is well known
and widely accepted, so what is widely accepted in this area?
Is the "rust" of aluminum called bauxite by any chance?
And is it diamagnetic?
Art

Christopher Cox wrote:
Sputtering?

BTW, lots of luck with that subject, it would seem there is little
understanding on the field of study other than it works.


The "rust" on aluminum is aluminum oxide. More related to Corundum
{Al2O3}, sorry can't do subscripts in thunderbird, than Bauxite which is
{Al2O3.2H2O}. The oxide coating forms almost instantly on aluminum when
exposed to air. It is very thin and can be scratched off and will not
form if air is keep away from it which is why clamping works. The oxide
coating is also why soldering to aluminum is hard to do. If soldered in
an atmosphere without oxygen aluminum would solder easily. When aluminum
is exposed to water a white powdery coating forms. That is closer to
Bauxite as it’s a hydrated aluminum oxide of which Bauxite is just one.
Anodizing is process that makes the aluminum oxide coating thicker and
more porous so that dye can be forced into it so it can be colored. And
anodizing also is a good insulator which is why it must be scraped off
where you want to make an electrical connection.

John Passaneau
Penn State University

Thank you for the info John.
I am not very good in the chemical area but I believe that all
diamagnetic materials
form hydroxides where the constituents contain a sinle Oygen and
hydrogen (HO)
Thus materials used for antennas generate a surface where (HO) is a
constituent.
This can produce particles,ions or what have you to congregate on the
surface
but without energy per se but possibly adverse to the high velocity
release
of electrons.
Would that have any accurate deductions derived from the initial (HO)
constituent?
I also see a possibility that all contain a particular static particle
such as dust
that can be obtained from most if not all orbiting mass in the
Universe ( something like
Moon dust that cling to a astronauts outer wear in the effort to join
the H2O of the
human body within) I did read that NASA in an effort to remove moon
dust had partial
success by directing energy from a capacitor release which overcame
the inertia of the dust on clothing.(They have a fear of this dust
entering the space vehicle
and acting as an abrasive substance.)
As you may guess I am trying to determine the action of a pulsatic
release of energy
from a capacitor that will eject "something" from a diagmagnetic
surface from
which a radiator is made.
Again, many thanks
Art Unwin KB9MZ.....xg

John Passaneau wrote:
art wrote in news:09534116-d261-4f5d-aeea-
:

No !!!!!!!!!
Every thing is known.
It must be in the books of Kraus and you know who.
I keep reading that the theories of radiation is well known
and widely accepted, so what is widely accepted in this area?
Is the "rust" of aluminum called bauxite by any chance?
And is it diamagnetic?
Art

Christopher Cox wrote:
Sputtering?

BTW, lots of luck with that subject, it would seem there is little
understanding on the field of study other than it works.


The "rust" on aluminum is aluminum oxide. More related to Corundum
{Al2O3}, sorry can't do subscripts in thunderbird, than Bauxite which is
{Al2O3.2H2O}. The oxide coating forms almost instantly on aluminum when
exposed to air. It is very thin and can be scratched off and will not
form if air is keep away from it which is why clamping works. The oxide
coating is also why soldering to aluminum is hard to do. If soldered in
an atmosphere without oxygen aluminum would solder easily. When aluminum
is exposed to water a white powdery coating forms. That is closer to
Bauxite as it�s a hydrated aluminum oxide of which Bauxite is just one.
Anodizing is process that makes the aluminum oxide coating thicker and
more porous so that dye can be forced into it so it can be colored. And
anodizing also is a good insulator which is why it must be scraped off
where you want to make an electrical connection.

John Passaneau
Penn State University

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:01:39 -0800 (PST), art
wrote:

As you may guess I am trying to determine the action of a pulsatic
release of energy
from a capacitor that will eject "something" from a diagmagnetic
surface from
which a radiator is made.

Hi Arthur,

This is discussed in most Physics books. Unfortunately, not in the
terms you are expecting - so essentially trash to any invention
purporting to elevate this dust-buster energy to radiation status.

Let's say you want to pulsatic eject "something" from a surface. It
first has to exceed the work function of the material. This is pretty
hard for metals exposed to any environment other than vacuum, and even
more hard if insufficient voltage/temperature is applied.

Given this work function barrier, we would observe it as the cessation
of radiation from an antenna when potentials/temperatures dropped
below a critical level. Given further that many Ham operators collect
QSL cards from all over the planet on Watt power levels, there is no
evidence of this at all (as a Watt power level into a resonant dipole
is insufficient to supply the work function requirement).

Hence, it follows that pulsatic ejection is of no consequence beyond
the illusion of performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

I am beginning to believe that levitation is at hand here.
When a magnetic fiels is imposed particles on the surface of the
radiator
are levitated where they MUST move to the outside of the arbitary
border
from Gauss which encloses the aluminum radiator and the static
particles.
The magnetic field upsets the equilibrium within the confined border
where the border fractures in an effort to retain equilibrium which
allows
for full levitation outside the border Do some articles that are in
the motion of levitation fail to escape when the magnetic fields is
lost and thus return to the radiators surface possibly to replace
particles lost from the "skin" of the radiator. I think we have a
possible avenue here!
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG
art wrote:
Thank you for the info John.
I am not very good in the chemical area but I believe that all
diamagnetic materials
form hydroxides where the constituents contain a sinle Oygen and
hydrogen (HO)
Thus materials used for antennas generate a surface where (HO) is a
constituent.
This can produce particles,ions or what have you to congregate on the
surface
but without energy per se but possibly adverse to the high velocity
release
of electrons.
Would that have any accurate deductions derived from the initial (HO)
constituent?
I also see a possibility that all contain a particular static particle
such as dust
that can be obtained from most if not all orbiting mass in the
Universe ( something like
Moon dust that cling to a astronauts outer wear in the effort to join
the H2O of the
human body within) I did read that NASA in an effort to remove moon
dust had partial
success by directing energy from a capacitor release which overcame
the inertia of the dust on clothing.(They have a fear of this dust
entering the space vehicle
and acting as an abrasive substance.)
As you may guess I am trying to determine the action of a pulsatic
release of energy
from a capacitor that will eject "something" from a diagmagnetic
surface from
which a radiator is made.
Again, many thanks
Art Unwin KB9MZ.....xg

John Passaneau wrote:
art wrote in news:09534116-d261-4f5d-aeea-
:

No !!!!!!!!!
Every thing is known.
It must be in the books of Kraus and you know who.
I keep reading that the theories of radiation is well known
and widely accepted, so what is widely accepted in this area?
Is the "rust" of aluminum called bauxite by any chance?
And is it diamagnetic?
Art

Christopher Cox wrote:
Sputtering?

BTW, lots of luck with that subject, it would seem there is little
understanding on the field of study other than it works.


The "rust" on aluminum is aluminum oxide. More related to Corundum
{Al2O3}, sorry can't do subscripts in thunderbird, than Bauxite which is
{Al2O3.2H2O}. The oxide coating forms almost instantly on aluminum when
exposed to air. It is very thin and can be scratched off and will not
form if air is keep away from it which is why clamping works. The oxide
coating is also why soldering to aluminum is hard to do. If soldered in
an atmosphere without oxygen aluminum would solder easily. When aluminum
is exposed to water a white powdery coating forms. That is closer to
Bauxite as it�s a hydrated aluminum oxide of which Bauxite is just one.
Anodizing is process that makes the aluminum oxide coating thicker and
more porous so that dye can be forced into it so it can be colored. And
anodizing also is a good insulator which is why it must be scraped off
where you want to make an electrical connection.

John Passaneau
Penn State University

On 15 Nov, 19:51, Christopher Cox
wrote:
I guess Art was implying sputtering. I actually posted the response sort
of "tongue in cheek".

It was my understanding sputtering requires a vacuum and high voltage.

It would appear by Art's response, they figured out all the ins and outs
of sputtering.

Chris



Richard Clark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:01:39 -0800 (PST), art
wrote:

As you may guess I am trying to determine the action of a pulsatic
release of energy

from a capacitor that will eject "something" from a diagmagnetic

surface from
which a radiator is made.

Hi Arthur,

This is discussed in most Physics books. Unfortunately, not in the
terms you are expecting - so essentially trash to any invention
purporting to elevate this dust-buster energy to radiation status.

Let's say you want to pulsatic eject "something" from a surface. It
first has to exceed the work function of the material. This is pretty
hard for metals exposed to any environment other than vacuum, and even
more hard if insufficient voltage/temperature is applied.

Given this work function barrier, we would observe it as the cessation
of radiation from an antenna when potentials/temperatures dropped
below a critical level. Given further that many Ham operators collect
QSL cards from all over the planet on Watt power levels, there is no
evidence of this at all (as a Watt power level into a resonant dipole
is insufficient to supply the work function requirement).

Hence, it follows that pulsatic ejection is of no consequence beyond
the illusion of performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No Chris I know you are not refering to the other use of a 8877 ie
spluttering
as with reed switch contacts. When a time varing current toapplied to
something
that creats radiation I am trying to deduce an alternative to the
thinking that
current can hurdle a capacitor and retain it's time varience.
This is why I view it in the context of adding a time varient to the
laws
of static particles where this action results in a tank circuit.
In that case the pulsatic release of energy serves as a time varient
that satisfies
the laws of Maxwell without the assumption that current can leap frog
a capacitor.
(Roy states that this is something he doesn't understand, as well as
avoiding
mechanical laws since they are irrelavent in the electrical world)
Whether I will be succesful in presenting a realistic alternative to
jumping
currents is moot . But after successfully produced an antenna, not a
system,
that exceeds that which follows printed theories I think I can be
forgiven in
not just accepting but to also pursue an understanding.
Certainly, I must not pursue the idea of distributed capacitance is
completly
devoid of ALL characteristics of a lumped capacitance as the computor
programmers would have us believe !
Food for thought for those without the herd mentallity who tend to
dismiss
the "unlikely" and make their fortune on only betting on polled
favorites at any
racing event....!
I do like the thought of levitation since it fits in the idea of a
Gaussian field
because then the escaping/ ejected particle meet the same conditions
that create
levitation when in the vicinity of a diamagnetic material ala a
radiator.
Question remains tho that particles are removed from the arbitary
field
possibly skin particles. This suggest then than that radiator surfaces
are
resealed on the surface from that provided from the external
capacitor.
All in all something worth while to ponder upon
Best regards
Art Unwin....KB9MZ

Art wrote:
"I am trying to deduce an alternative to the thinking current can hurdle
a capacitor and retain its time variation."

An early demonstration of electroostatic repulsion was via an instrument
called the electroscope. Put a charge on its plates and it opened like a
book. It proved like charges repelled and that repulsion was
proportional to charge.

From that it can be imagined that if you put a charge on one insulated
plate and like charges on an insulated plate nearby have an avenue of
escape to the outside world, you may have produced a capacitor useful
for ac coupling or bypass. It isn`t a hurdle. It is a device capable of
a displacement current which blocks dc but passes ac. It`s a device
formerly called a condenser, now called a capacitor.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

"Richard Harrison" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:
"I am trying to deduce an alternative to the thinking current can hurdle
a capacitor and retain its time variation."

An early demonstration of electroostatic repulsion was via an instrument
called the electroscope. Put a charge on its plates and it opened like a
book. It proved like charges repelled and that repulsion was
proportional to charge.

From that it can be imagined that if you put a charge on one insulated
plate and like charges on an insulated plate nearby have an avenue of
escape to the outside world, you may have produced a capacitor useful
for ac coupling or bypass. It isn`t a hurdle. It is a device capable of
a displacement current which blocks dc but passes ac. It`s a device
formerly called a condenser, now called a capacitor.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


just wait till he tries to tell you that the plates have to be diamagnetic
so his fictional static particles can jump off the plate. i quit watching
his direct responses after he couldn't explain why ferro magnetic plates
wouldn't work when it is well known that they will.

"Christopher Cox" wrote

I guess Art was implying sputtering. I actually posted the response sort of
"tongue in cheek".

It was my understanding sputtering requires a vacuum and high voltage.

It would appear by Art's response, they figured out all the ins and outs
of sputtering.

Chris:
Sputtering and blithering is what Art does best!

Mike W5CHR