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#1
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
or FAQ depending on how you look at it... I should probably repeat this
regularly on here. This newsgroup should NOT be used as a reference source for concepts or equations regarding fields, waves, transmission lines, or other physical phenomena. Please consult published text books and peer reviewed journals for analysis of technical questions. The regular contributors in this group have a wide variety of misconceptions and erroneous views which they frequently throw in as if they were well known facts. On the lighter side, it can be fun now and then to throw them a simple problem and watch them swarm around like a kicked hornet nest. |
#2
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
"Dave" wrote in message news:ZF6cj.1291$OH6.639@trndny03... or FAQ depending on how you look at it... I should probably repeat this regularly on here. This newsgroup should NOT be used as a reference source for concepts or equations regarding fields, waves, transmission lines, or other physical phenomena. Please consult published text books and peer reviewed journals for analysis of technical questions. The regular contributors in this group have a wide variety of misconceptions and erroneous views which they frequently throw in as if they were well known facts. On the lighter side, it can be fun now and then to throw them a simple problem and watch them swarm around like a kicked hornet nest. The best confession yet :-) Just my two centavos. I enjoy this group because it is not policed by the Gestapo moderator and is open to variety of opinions and allows niiiice loooong threads leading to some conclusions and bringing up points that otherwise would be neglected. It is a mirror of some personalities, uncovering their real repository of knowledge, right or wrong, testing the convictions and stubbornness on sometimes sticking to their false truths. But those with some open mind left can make their own conclusions and learn a thing or two. What a difference to say Towertalk reflector where i.e. W8JI (the great technical imposter - as summed by K7GCO) can decimate opponent of his "gospels" while Gestapo admin will delete any opposition to his "teachings" and leave the last man standing with his fallacies still on his web site. Too bad, because many decent posters get turned off and fade away just disgusted by it. So, thanks to youze guyz for your contributions to the warfare here, it is the best, stimulating and a mirror of various contributors that paint the pictures of themselves with their arguments. I have learned from my burned up Hustler coil mystery all the way to "no power in standing waves" and where all those electrons, photons and other antenna creaters go when I feed them power. Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New 2008! Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV etc |
#3
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
I have learned from my burned up Hustler coil mystery all the way to "no
power in standing waves" and where all those electrons, photons and other antenna creaters go when I feed them power. There's plenty of energy in those standing waves, Yuri, existing as "reactive power" as defined by the IEEE Dictionary (units of VARS from power engineering). When any energy is extracted from a standing wave and used to heat the Hustler coil, it automatically becomes a traveling wave with the voltage and current in phase, not a standing wave with the voltage and current 90 degrees out of phase. Your Hustler coil was burned up by traveling waves, not standing waves. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#4
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Standing morphing to travelling waves. was r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message et... I have learned from my burned up Hustler coil mystery all the way to "no power in standing waves" and where all those electrons, photons and other antenna creaters go when I feed them power. There's plenty of energy in those standing waves, Yuri, existing as "reactive power" as defined by the IEEE Dictionary (units of VARS from power engineering). When any energy is extracted from a standing wave and used to heat the Hustler coil, it automatically becomes a traveling wave with the voltage and current in phase, not a standing wave with the voltage and current 90 degrees out of phase. Your Hustler coil was burned up by traveling waves, not standing waves. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Love those absolute statements, just like my mother in-law used to say: "because..." So can we take it apart? I have a quarter wave resonant, fine tuned, coil loaded Hustler mobile 80m whippy. So far we knew that it is a standing wave circuit. Now Cecil tells me that it automatically becomes traveling wave in/through the coil? Wasaaap? Christmas miracle? We know, saw burning and measured that current decreases towards the top as proportional to the standing wave (current). We know that traveling wave has uniform current along the conductor (coil). That it needs to be terminated in characteristic impedance load somewhere in order to have nice smooth constant current distribution along the conductor (antenna). So far I have learned that, yes, standing wave current can burn the coil (now it is traveling), that sw voltage can burn lossy insulator and create corona. That current through resistance generates heat, consumes real power. That resonant antenna is a standing wave circuit, but standing wave voltage and current, while they are measurable and observable do not have (sw) power. When I pump more power to the antenna, it burns faster. It takes power to burn things, but there is no power, just current and voltage. Normally power is voltage times current, but not in Hustler country. (Use lossless transmission line, dummy :-) "You are right Yuri (finally) because......." So what happened to collapsing E field creating M field and them 90 degrees? How can I proceed to explore standing wave antennas vs. traveling waves if I am stuck here on the Hustler whip and its whims and "no power" burning coils? Must be the messed up equilibrium somewhere :-) Huh? Yuri |
#5
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Standing morphing to travelling waves. was r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
So far we knew that it is a standing wave circuit. Now Cecil tells me that it automatically becomes traveling wave in/through the coil? Wasaaap? Christmas miracle? No, that's not what I said. What I said is the voltage and current in a standing wave are *always* 90 degrees out of phase and it is impossible to generate heat when the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. Just as soon as heat is detected, we know the cosine of the angle between the voltage and current is 1.0 which tells us it is a traveling wave, not a standing wave. As long as the phase angle between the voltage and current remains at 90 degrees, it is a standing wave, by definition, and heat cannot be extracted. If heat is extracted, it no longer meets the definition of a standing wave. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#6
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Standing morphing to travelling waves. was r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
Cecil Moore wrote:
What I said is the voltage and current in a standing wave are *always* 90 degrees out of phase and it is impossible to generate heat when the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. So then shouldn't one expect coax to be heated uniformly along its length at a high SWR? 73, ac6xg |
#7
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message news:ZF6cj.1291$OH6.639@trndny03... or FAQ depending on how you look at it... I should probably repeat this regularly on here. This newsgroup should NOT be used as a reference source for concepts or equations regarding fields, waves, transmission lines, or other physical phenomena. Please consult published text books and peer reviewed journals for analysis of technical questions. The regular contributors in this group have a wide variety of misconceptions and erroneous views which they frequently throw in as if they were well known facts. On the lighter side, it can be fun now and then to throw them a simple problem and watch them swarm around like a kicked hornet nest. The best confession yet :-) Just my two centavos. I enjoy this group because it is not policed by the Gestapo moderator and is open to variety of opinions and allows niiiice loooong threads leading to some conclusions and bringing up points that otherwise would be neglected. It is a mirror of some personalities, uncovering their real repository of knowledge, right or wrong, testing the convictions and stubbornness on sometimes sticking to their false truths. But those with some open mind left can make their own conclusions and learn a thing or two. What a difference to say Towertalk reflector where i.e. W8JI (the great technical imposter - as summed by K7GCO) can decimate opponent of his "gospels" while Gestapo admin will delete any opposition to his "teachings" and leave the last man standing with his fallacies still on his web site. Too bad, because many decent posters get turned off and fade away just disgusted by it. So, thanks to youze guyz for your contributions to the warfare here, it is the best, stimulating and a mirror of various contributors that paint the pictures of themselves with their arguments. I have learned from my burned up Hustler coil mystery all the way to "no power in standing waves" and where all those electrons, photons and other antenna creaters go when I feed them power. Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New 2008! Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV etc Hello All: I have sent Yuri e-mail telling him how I liked his Razor Antenna and enjoyed his writings and such. But got no reply. Maybe didn't get thru the filter?!?!? This RRAA is a good group as I for one, watch and read, and then reread and look thru a few books. It is a healthy group. And at times real entertaining. As Yuri said it has many different views and considerations not mention in most books and such are presented. Setting back on the side lines and watching. Merry Christmas to all. Jay in the Mojave |
#8
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
Jay in the Mojave wrote:
... Setting back on the side lines and watching. Merry Christmas to all. Jay in the Mojave Merry Xmas Jay. We are kindred spirits in the enjoyment of this group ... Warm regards, JS |
#9
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
John Smith wrote:
Jay in the Mojave wrote: ... Setting back on the side lines and watching. Merry Christmas to all. Jay in the Mojave Merry Xmas Jay. We are kindred spirits in the enjoyment of this group ... Warm regards, JS Hello JS: Yeah Ten-4 hope Christmas was a pleasant day for. I do enjoy reading the group here. But don't have the time to look everyday. Have a Happy and safe New Year. Stay out of jail. (humor) Maybe catch ya on the bands some day. Jay in the Mojave Kreediantilas: Not 2 many |
#10
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r.r.a.a WARNING!!!
Dave wrote:
or FAQ depending on how you look at it... I should probably repeat this regularly on here. This newsgroup should NOT be used as a reference source for concepts or equations regarding fields, waves, transmission lines, or other physical phenomena. Please consult published text books and peer reviewed journals for analysis of technical questions. The regular contributors in this group have a wide variety of misconceptions and erroneous views which they frequently throw in as if they were well known facts. On the lighter side, it can be fun now and then to throw them a simple problem and watch them swarm around like a kicked hornet nest. Now, let me see, to sum that "all up:" 1) Do not think for yourself; only thoughts which have gone before are valid. 2) There is nothing which has been overlooked in prior works. 3) The world is only composed of idiots; if they even read the conversation/debate of others on "possibilities" their lack of mental prowness will be their end. 4) If someone doesn't have a complete and absolute understanding of the "truths" at this point, so be it, they are not to engage in any discussions which will expose their ignorance--else they be less than REAL men/women. 5) Etc., etc., etc. ... Yeah, I have heard it all before ... thanks. Frankly, if there does exist such idiots as you propose--so be it. THREAD PLONK! JS |
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