wrote:
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:

I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Sounds like a bigger weight would help.

An interesting question, and a fairly good answer within limits. I used
to do a lot of this sort of thing in the special effects industry (why
yes, you CAN launch a refrigerator with bungee cords).

Here are the physics things to think about.

The amount of energy you can put into the projectile is determined by:
a) How far you pull back
b) How hard you had to pull (i.e. spring constant of the tubes)

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Peak Force * distance pulled back

That energy gets transferred to the projectile as kinetic energy.

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Mass * V^2

Then, the energy gets converted back to potential energy (height) and
lost through air drag and pulling the line out. For slow speeds and
small things, the line drag is probably dominant.

By the way, if the pull is about 10 lbs and you pulled back 18", with no
air or line drag, a one ounce projectile will go to about 36 meters (120 ft)

A little bit of line drag makes a huge difference. a one ounce drag,
essentially doubles the weight of your projectile. For the example,
that would change your max height to about 19m (60ft)

If you had a 2 ounce projectile, on the other hand...with no drag, you
get to 19m, but the 1 ounce drag only brings you back to 12.4 m (40ft)


Air drag is a smaller order effect.

force in lbs = area in square feet * v(mi/hr)^2/391.. Your one ounce
weight is moving about 60 mi/hr at launch (9 lb/sf), but is less than a
square inch, so it's about an ounce of drag, but it drops off as the
square, so as the projectile slows, the drag drops off..

A heavier projectile goes slower, so that helps on the airdrag too.

Going back to 1 oz, no line drag, but counting air drag for 1" diameter,
27m or so height (about 2 seconds after launch, as a cross check)
1 oz, 1 oz line drag, air drag, 15.5 m
2 oz, no line, air drag, 1" diam, 18.8 m
2 oz, 1 oz line, air drag, 11.6 m


So this should give you a feel for the relative effects of line drag and
air drag and projectile mass. I did the calculations with a simple
spreadsheet in Excel that numerically integrates the physics equations
with very short time steps.

Jim's calculations have confirmed something I've consistently experienced:
my homebrew EZ-Hang has never really lived up to my expectations, or should
I say the expectations that others have set for the performance of the
thing. (For the record, my homebrew device is an exact copy of the famous
EZ-Hang.)

For the past three Field Days, which is when I've used the thing, the
maximum height I've seemed to attain is around 50 feet-- right in the
ballpark for a 1 oz. weight with line and air drags. No matter what I've
tried, that's the limit of height for the parameters of my situation.

Thanks, Jim.

Al W6LX








"Jim Lux" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:

I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Sounds like a bigger weight would help.

An interesting question, and a fairly good answer within limits. I used
to do a lot of this sort of thing in the special effects industry (why
yes, you CAN launch a refrigerator with bungee cords).

Here are the physics things to think about.

The amount of energy you can put into the projectile is determined by:
a) How far you pull back
b) How hard you had to pull (i.e. spring constant of the tubes)

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Peak Force * distance pulled back

That energy gets transferred to the projectile as kinetic energy.

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Mass * V^2

Then, the energy gets converted back to potential energy (height) and lost
through air drag and pulling the line out. For slow speeds and small
things, the line drag is probably dominant.

By the way, if the pull is about 10 lbs and you pulled back 18", with no
air or line drag, a one ounce projectile will go to about 36 meters (120
ft)

A little bit of line drag makes a huge difference. a one ounce drag,
essentially doubles the weight of your projectile. For the example, that
would change your max height to about 19m (60ft)

If you had a 2 ounce projectile, on the other hand...with no drag, you get
to 19m, but the 1 ounce drag only brings you back to 12.4 m (40ft)


Air drag is a smaller order effect.

force in lbs = area in square feet * v(mi/hr)^2/391.. Your one ounce
weight is moving about 60 mi/hr at launch (9 lb/sf), but is less than a
square inch, so it's about an ounce of drag, but it drops off as the
square, so as the projectile slows, the drag drops off..

A heavier projectile goes slower, so that helps on the airdrag too.

Going back to 1 oz, no line drag, but counting air drag for 1" diameter,
27m or so height (about 2 seconds after launch, as a cross check)
1 oz, 1 oz line drag, air drag, 15.5 m
2 oz, no line, air drag, 1" diam, 18.8 m
2 oz, 1 oz line, air drag, 11.6 m


So this should give you a feel for the relative effects of line drag and
air drag and projectile mass. I did the calculations with a simple
spreadsheet in Excel that numerically integrates the physics equations
with very short time steps.

Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.

My point is that if you use an "EZ Hang" (or a counterfeit)
properly, that thing really works!

Wish you were closer so I could show you. It's a great
gadget!

---------------

News Features wrote:
Jim's calculations have confirmed something I've consistently experienced:
my homebrew EZ-Hang has never really lived up to my expectations, or should
I say the expectations that others have set for the performance of the
thing. (For the record, my homebrew device is an exact copy of the famous
EZ-Hang.)

For the past three Field Days, which is when I've used the thing, the
maximum height I've seemed to attain is around 50 feet-- right in the
ballpark for a 1 oz. weight with line and air drags. No matter what I've
tried, that's the limit of height for the parameters of my situation.

Thanks, Jim.

Al W6LX

SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.

How far back do you pull, and how hard?

Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.

How far back do you pull, and how hard?

With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*

On May 23, 4:21 pm, SWLer wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.

How far back do you pull, and how hard?

With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*

So.. about 30 inches (based on the wrist rocket I have).. care to
guestimate how hard you're pulling? (maybe I can make some
measurements on my old wrist rocket..)

wrote:
On May 23, 4:21 pm, SWLer wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --
I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.
The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.
How far back do you pull, and how hard?
With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*

So.. about 30 inches (based on the wrist rocket I have).. care to
guestimate how hard you're pulling? (maybe I can make some
measurements on my old wrist rocket..)


Again, *Remember I used safety glasses* in case a rubber
snapped. You need to do that.

I didn't measure anything. But, 30 inches sounds about right.
All I did was pull *really* hard on the rubbers and (using a
one-ounce weight as I described) the darned thing went up
like a rocket, up and over the tree.

It amazed me.

So, don't be afraid to pull the rubber bands 30+ inches.
Unless they're old, they won't snap.

73, Fred