"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jun 29, 11:47 am, (Dave Platt) wrote:
First of all Felix has placed his project into such a 'top secret'
status that even the contract to which one agrees is secret until
after it is agreed to.

I think it's very questionable whether any such "secret contract"
would be enforceable, at least here in the U.S.

One of the crucial elements in a contract is the "meeting of the
minds". That is, the parties who are taking part in the contract must
be in agreement as to what it is that is being agreed to.

Terms which are kept secret from one party to the contract until after
the contract was signed would almost certainly be held to be invalid
and unenforceable.

Felix *could* have a legal and binding contract with buyers of his
antenna which has strict terms that require nondisclosure, forbid
reverse engineering, or insist that buyers do The Dance in public on
alternate Thursdays. However, in order to be enforceable, all of the
terms have to be presented to the buyer *before* the contract is
agreed to.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

I totally agree.He really should supply a graph of frequency versus
SWR then buyers would know what they are getting.

Art

the only time a graph of swr vs frequency is important is for a dummy load.
it is not a measure of antenna performance.

On Jun 29, 2:14 pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Jun 29, 11:47 am, (Dave Platt) wrote:



First of all Felix has placed his project into such a 'top secret'
status that even the contract to which one agrees is secret until
after it is agreed to.

I think it's very questionable whether any such "secret contract"
would be enforceable, at least here in the U.S.

One of the crucial elements in a contract is the "meeting of the
minds". That is, the parties who are taking part in the contract must
be in agreement as to what it is that is being agreed to.

Terms which are kept secret from one party to the contract until after
the contract was signed would almost certainly be held to be invalid
and unenforceable.

Felix *could* have a legal and binding contract with buyers of his
antenna which has strict terms that require nondisclosure, forbid
reverse engineering, or insist that buyers do The Dance in public on
alternate Thursdays. However, in order to be enforceable, all of the
terms have to be presented to the buyer *before* the contract is
agreed to.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

I totally agree.He really should supply a graph of frequency versus
SWR then buyers would know what they are getting.

Boy, that would really tell a buyer all he needs to know about
the antenna/dummy load in question.. :/

Hams are not interested in how it works on ly the extent of
frequencies and the external size of the antenna

Hummm.. This is an interesting comment from a person who
tries to build the smallest antennas he can, and constantly
harps on the perceived wide bandwidth of said devices.. :/

Isn't this what Rhode Island did.

How did Rhode Island get involved?
Yes, Rhode Island is a small state. You could even call it puny
compared to the one I live in, but I think they do have enough
room for a full size dipole or loop.. :/
Maybe even a beverage or two..

Now if the wire is one wavelength
such that radiation cannot occur from the feed line that would be a
welcome addition.

Prey tell.. How will the use of a 1 wavelength element eliminate
feed line radiation?

Albiet a balanced to unbanced windings would be handy
for when coax is used.

Prey tell why? Would the omission of balanced to unbalanced
windings lead to a disturbance in the force?
How would you explain the obvious success of decoupled verticals
using no "windings" at all?

Either way the antenna seems awefull long compared to what it could
be.

He may be trying to avoid dummy load performance from a device
intended to radiate.
I'm sure he'll be happy to let you corner the market in that respect
to avoid any future patent infringements.

On Jun 28, 10:53 pm, Buck wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:34:31 -0700 (PDT), Art wrote:

Not one person has given good reason why the quoted antenna

cannot work as stated, not one. By mathematics or actually making one
since heckling is regarded as a suitable replacement for true
knowledge now in the present hobby of ham radio.

First of all Felix has placed his project into such a 'top secret'
status that even the contract to which one agrees is secret until
after it is agreed to. When I told Felix I might buy his plans (IIRC
they were only $35.00 at the time) but, I would need to first see the
agreement, he cut off communications with me.

I'll ask Felix again, what are the terms of agreement, or why are they
secret until we paid for the plans?

Because of his secrecy of his agreement, I can only speculate that he
is looking for marks, suckers, or fools to buy his antenna plans.
Only a fool would sign a check and turn it over to a stranger to fill
in as he desires.

Personally, I would love for Felix's antenna design to perform
according to his claims. I would be proud to have his ugly pole on
top of my car as I drive down the road working DX if it works as
claimed. ("ugly pole" is not meant to be derogatory, see my car to
understand.)

And Art, the fact is that only Felix has the obligation of proof. As
I see it, this is the issue:
Felix has made certain claims to a product which he is selling. The
evidence he is using to back up his claims doesn't hold up to the
standards set to establish such claims. He may have tried, as in he
tested his antenna against a loop, but there were discrepancies in his
test that would skew the results.

I think everyone knows that at one time, according to the laws of
aerodynamics, a bumble bee could not fly. The laws have been changed
so the Bumble-bee can now fly. Currently, I believe the general rules
of antenna theory say that a properly made 1/4 wave ground plane will
outperform a ground plane less than 1/10th wavelength in size. (I am
sure some of the EEs here can prove this mathematically or offer some
specific scientific law, but I am not trying to go there.) Felix
claims to have an antenna that can defy this rule, therefore, the
burden of proof lies on him, not the EEs in the group.

I will not say that there is not a design that can break the general
rule I stated above, but the evidence Felix is offering is sketchy at
best.

Buck
You are misunderstanding the situation with his antenna. What he is
doing is putting as much wire into the air which old timers still talk
about and then taking on the problem of feeding it. Since an antenna
can be any shape or size when in equilibrium he is following the first
part and getting around the need for equilibrium to get a smaller
antenna. This is somewhat like the Rhode Island antenna where winding
or distortion of a antenna was accepted first and the effort to place
it in equilibrium was taken on later .This was done by including the
transmission line in the antenna system which made a "smaller" antenna
Regards
Art
--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

On 4 Jul., 19:56, Art Unwin wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:53 pm, Buck wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:34:31 -0700 (PDT), Art wrote:

Not one person has given good reason why the quoted antenna

cannot work as stated, not one. By mathematics or actually making one
since heckling is regarded as a suitable replacement for true
knowledge now in the present hobby of ham radio.

First of all Felix has placed his project into such a 'top secret'
status that even the contract to which one agrees is secret until
after it is agreed to. When I told Felix I might buy his plans (IIRC
they were only $35.00 at the time) but, I would need to first see the
agreement, he cut off communications with me.

I'll ask Felix again, what are the terms of agreement, or why are they
secret until we paid for the plans?

Because of his secrecy of his agreement, I can only speculate that he
is looking for marks, suckers, or fools to buy his antenna plans.
Only a fool would sign a check and turn it over to a stranger to fill
in as he desires.

Personally, I would love for Felix's antenna design to perform
according to his claims. I would be proud to have his ugly pole on
top of my car as I drive down the road working DX if it works as
claimed. ("ugly pole" is not meant to be derogatory, see my car to
understand.)

And Art, the fact is that only Felix has the obligation of proof. As
I see it, this is the issue:
Felix has made certain claims to a product which he is selling. The
evidence he is using to back up his claims doesn't hold up to the
standards set to establish such claims. He may have tried, as in he
tested his antenna against a loop, but there were discrepancies in his
test that would skew the results.

I think everyone knows that at one time, according to the laws of
aerodynamics, a bumble bee could not fly. The laws have been changed
so the Bumble-bee can now fly. Currently, I believe the general rules
of antenna theory say that a properly made 1/4 wave ground plane will
outperform a ground plane less than 1/10th wavelength in size. (I am
sure some of the EEs here can prove this mathematically or offer some
specific scientific law, but I am not trying to go there.) Felix
claims to have an antenna that can defy this rule, therefore, the
burden of proof lies on him, not the EEs in the group.

I will not say that there is not a design that can break the general
rule I stated above, but the evidence Felix is offering is sketchy at
best.

Buck
You are misunderstanding the situation with his antenna. What he is
doing is putting as much wire into the air which old timers still talk
about and then taking on the problem of feeding it. Since an antenna
can be any shape or size when in equilibrium he is following the first
part and getting around the need for equilibrium to get a smaller
antenna. This is somewhat like the Rhode Island antenna where winding
or distortion of a antenna was accepted first and the effort to place
it in equilibrium was taken on later .This was done by including the
transmission line in the antenna system which made a "smaller" antenna
Regards
Art

--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

It is incredible , how silly and wrong the comments here are.
- All facts are disregarded and so many wrong things are
told, that I think, you all better remain with your wire antennas
as has been since 100 years ... and you better believe
that the world is flat and that an airplane never can fly,
as scientists teached some time ago ...
Maybe you will understand when the time is ready for that ...
-
I just tell you, that you can read the real facts he
http://home.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm
and
if someone wants to know the contract, he has to sign
before obtaining the plans: Send me an email
and you will get all conditions - nothing is kept secret
as Buck wrote. Probably his mail was lost in the
Internet, and that is not my responsibility. Sorry.
With kind regards: Felix - HB9ABX
--... ...-- = 73

hb9abx wrote:

...
With kind regards: Felix - HB9ABX
--... ...-- = 73

As alway, I remain open to embrace any new
designs/techniques/construction-methods/plans/breakthroughs/etc.

After building/using "it" (your antenna in question) I went back to the
DLM. Granted, I have not figured out how to make a true multi-band
version of the DLM, yet, no problem; I have never been fond of the
"one-size-fits-all" antenna, anyway.

I would encourage other to give it a go--I am not infallible and may
have sloppy or inadequate means to realize the full potential ... I have
made plenty such errors in the past ... :-(

Choice is nice!

Regards,
JS

On Jul 12, 1:48*pm, hb9abx wrote:


It is incredible , how silly and wrong the comments here are.
- All facts are disregarded and so many wrong things are
told, that I think, you all better remain with your wire antennas



What "facts" have been disregarded?
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining..
I have needed test apparatus to be able to tell the difference.
And yes, I'm sure I would be better off sticking with "my"
wire antennas, but that has nothing to do with the issues
at hand. I use only manly full sized antennas designed to
kick butt. It would only be natural that they would be superior
to lesser loaded designs.
Now, don't be confused. I have no real issues with your
antenna. Just the antenna you used as a reference.
I'm sure your antenna is far superior to the Unwin design
which is presently being offered by the wizard of IL.
But don't be confusing yourself that it is equal to a
full size specimen. It's not, and never will be. Ever.