On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:02:39 -0700 (PDT), DES
wrote:

Question, can a CB transmit 700 miles?

At the power levels you are suggesting, globally during certain
periods of the sun spot cycle. But that is not terribly different
with legal CB power.

As to his remarking that he wasn't doing anything illegal (CB with
amplification that some smarmy posters here think is perfectly OK); if
that be the case, then you need to fix your problem, because the FCC
does not mandate that a Ham legally using his equipment is obligated
to defer to your TV watching habits.

That fix is going to be the same if power levels don't go down for any
reason (issues of morality notwithstanding). The judicious and
liberal application of Ferrite RFI suppressors will solve a lot of
your suffering.

Look at any of your computer display leads and notice the end of the
cable with the odd bulge before one connector. That is a suppressor.
It is nothing more than a ferrite donut or tube. Ferrite is a
magnetic ceramic (it will break like china if you drop it). It is
made in many forms and appears to be dark gray with a slick to dusty
finish. The Ferrite RFI suppressors available at Radio Shack come
with a plastic clamshell holding one of these tubes that is split
lengthwise so you can open it, insert a wire or wires, and then lock
it shut. This makes it reusable if the problem isn't solved with your
choice of wire(s) or where you apply it.

This last suggests experimentation on your part is necessary. It also
means you are going to need more than one given you have described a
number of issues. For a start, get two or three and see how well they
work on the power cords going to the affected component (TV, radio,
computer) and even with both wires of any speaker. In short, put a
suppressor on any interconnecting cable or wire and see if symptoms
change.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Aug 19, 12:20*pm, Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:02:39 -0700 (PDT), DES
wrote:

Question, can a CB transmit 700 miles?

At the power levels you are suggesting, globally during certain
periods of the sun spot cycle. *But that is not terribly different
with legal CB power.

So, if I'm hearing him on a daily bases speaking to someone that is
700 miles away, then it has to be a Ham?

As to his remarking that he wasn't doing anything illegal (CB with
amplification that some smarmy posters here think is perfectly OK); if
that be the case, then you need to fix your problem, because the FCC
does not mandate that a Ham legally using his equipment is obligated
to defer to your TV watching habits.

He's obviously not legal. He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally, and that we all have our hobbies, but
his was interfering with mine, which at the time was home theater. He
didn't deny that he wasn't illegal, at the time, and he did lower the
power, for a while.

I've approached this guy at least 5 times in the past few yrs, and
every time he has lowered the power, for a while. Not this time,
though, and it is now out of control.

snipped helpful info

He's obviously not legal. He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.


You are probably not going to agree with this Des, but the fact that you
have a problem with your TV and hifi is no indication that the guy with the
transmitter is at fault. Hams are legally allowed to transmit with very high
power and the fact that your equipment is susceptible to these transmissions
is more an indication of your equipment's short comings than the
transmitter's. Unfortunately some manufacturers take few precautions to
prevent this kind of interference getting into audio equipment etc. They
prefer to save money and only deal with complaints when they occur; it is
more cost effective for them!! The selling price is no indication of how
well a TV or hifi will stand up when exposed to strong transmissions.

Home theatre set ups are especially susceptible due to all the long speaker
cables lying about acting as antennas.

Regards
Jeff

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT), DES
wrote:

So, if I'm hearing him on a daily bases speaking to someone that is
700 miles away, then it has to be a Ham?

There is nothing to distinguish a Ham from a CBer here.

He's obviously not legal.

As you came here to make a determination of class of operation, your
statement is clearly a guess, not "obviously" a correct observation.

Simple point in fact is that even for a professional, it is
exceedingly difficult to determine a power level that is not legal.
You, as a citizen, are perfectly empowered to notify the nearest FCC
field office that is equipped to do this, but I wouldn't hold my
breath. Your tax rebate check robbed that agency of enforcement power
funds so you could buy a new TV. You can change that at the ballot
box - expect a higher tax bill if you want government to solve this.

He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally, and that we all have our hobbies, but
his was interfering with mine, which at the time was home theater. He
didn't deny that he wasn't illegal, at the time, and he did lower the
power, for a while.

I've approached this guy at least 5 times in the past few yrs, and
every time he has lowered the power, for a while. Not this time,
though, and it is now out of control.

Yes, not pleasant at all. Your complaint is neither new, nor original
over the course of 80 years now. In all practicality, your only real
option is to go to Radio Shack and stock up on suppressors. Save
yourself the added postage cost of sending a letter to the FCC and the
delay of bureaucracy waiting for them to tell you the same thing.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally, and that we all have our hobbies, but
his was interfering with mine, which at the time was home theater. He
didn't deny that he wasn't illegal, at the time, and he did lower the
power, for a while.

I've approached this guy at least 5 times in the past few yrs, and
every time he has lowered the power, for a while. Not this time,
though, and it is now out of control.

Well, I have some good news and some bad news for you.

Let's do the bad news first, OK?

As others have pointed out, it's entirely possible that your neighbor
is transmitting legally. If he has a ham license, he could be
transmitting with power levels of up to 1500 watts, in most bands, and
still be entirely within the bounds of his license.

The fact that he "didn't deny" that he was "broadcasting illegally"
isn't proof, by any means. He may simply have not wanted to get into
an argument with a neighbor who was making harsh accusations without
proof or evidence (and, sorry to say, I *am* referring to you here).

Unless you have evidence that he's transmitting without a license, or
in ways which violate whatever license he has, you don't have much
legal leverage, and probably won't be able to persuade anybody to do
anything on your behalf.

As others have pointed out... if a stereo amplifier, or loudspeaker,
or telephone starts picking up and reproducing radio transmissions,
then *this* device is defective/broken/badly-designed. This is a
condition referred to as "undesired operation" - the phone or speaker
is reacting to something (a strong RF field) which is irrelevant to
this device's normal mode of operation.

It is the position of the FCC that such "undesired operation" is a
defect in the device in question, and not the fault of a (legal) radio
transmission. It's is technically possible (and not all that
difficult) to shield and filter devices such as amplifiers and phones
so that they don't react to RF fields. Some manufacturers skimp on
this filtering and shielding, in order to save money... and if the
consumer buys such a device (rather than a more expensive, better-
designed one) then any problems which result are the responsibility of
the consumer and the device's manufacturer.

Many, many consumer electronics devices these days come with a "Part
15" label or advisory, on the device or in the manual. Part of the
wording says these devices "must not interfere" with licensed radio
services, and "must accept" interference from both licensed and
unlicensed radio services "including interference which causes
undesired operation".

That's the bad news.

Now, for the good news.

It's usually possible to add some after-market RF suppression devices
to the affected components, and greatly reduce or entirely eliminate
the interference. You can buy such devices over the counter or by
mail, and they're not expensive.

For phones, a small filter which plugs in between the phone cord and
the wall outlet will often do the trick. Plug-in DSL filters are
commonly available and will probably do the job well enough.

For loudspeakers and stereos - in most cases I've seen, the RF is
being picked up by the wires between the speaker and amplifier or
PC... the wires act as antennas, carry the RF into the amplifier
section, and the amplifier "detects" the RF by accident and converts
it to audio and amplifies it. It is often possible to entirely
eliminate such unwanted pickup by adding an interference suppressor
(a.k.a "choke" or "ferrite") to each speaker wire, right before it
enters the amplifier. The commonest variety is a "snap-on" two-part
ferrite - snap it open, wind the speaker wire through it a few times
(leaving a short stub of wire at the end), snap it closed, and
reconnect the wire to the amplifier/receiver. With amplified speakers
(computer or subwoofer), put a ferrite right at the speaker end of the
wire.

Adding ferrites to the AC power cords of the receiver, amplified
subwoofers, etc. is also a good idea.

For TV interference, you may need a "high-pass filter" connected in
the antenna line right at the TV. This will keep the strong RF signal
from your neighbor's transmitter out of the TV set's receiver.

Ferrites and filters are probably available at your local Radio Shack,
or by mailorder from quite a few suppliers.

For further information about actually solving the problem, I'd
suggest that you look at the ARRL's extensive collection of
information about this issue. Start at

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html

for a table of contents and a good overview of the basic issues
involved. The "Information for neighbors of hams" page is also
worthwhile reading.

Oh... if you want to know whether your neighbor is a ham, you may be
able to find out from:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...rchLicense.jsp

Click "Amateur", then plug in your zipcode and do a search. See if
your neighbor's name comes up.

However, even if your neighbor doesn't have a ham license, and is
transmitting on CB, it's entirely possible that his transmissions
could be getting into your radio even if they were limited to legal
power... and if so, he wouldn't be under any obligation to stop
transmitting or reduce power.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
The fact that he "didn't deny" that he was "broadcasting illegally"
isn't proof, by any means.

I agree with you, Dave, but it's the usual case where it sure *looks*
suspicious if someone who's doing something entirely legal doesn't claim as
much when accused of doing something illegal. Something like, "Actually, I'm
a licensed amateur radio operator, and my setup is perfectly legal, although I
don't really care to debate this with you -- good day." is in no way
provocative.

I would suggest that the O.P. contact his local amateur radio club and see if
anyone there has a spectrum analyzer -- that should very quickly resolve the
question of whether he's transmitting on 11m or some ham frequency. If it is
a ham frequency, I would agree that realistically one has to assume he's
transmitting well within his legal rights, as (1) exact power measurements
aren't going to be easy and (2) perfectly legal power levels can still cause
plenty of interference.

I would hope that all hams would be intersted in assisting the O.P. in this
case. While the transmitter may well be a hermit ham operating perfectly
legally, it's certainly in the amateur community's interest (and perhaps even
charter) to help the O.P. out by at least verifying that the transmissions are
plausibly legal, and then providing suggestions on reducing interference (if
they are legal), as you have done.

However, even if your neighbor doesn't have a ham license, and is
transmitting on CB, it's entirely possible that his transmissions
could be getting into your radio even if they were limited to legal
power...

Also true, but highly unlikely, IMO. This can usually be verified by just
listening to the guy for awhile -- pretty much every CB'er I've ever met who
had an amplifier liked to brag about it at some point on the air.
Additionally, if some local ham with a spectrum analyzer can additionally
estimate the gain of the antenna, he can estimate what sort of signal power a
5W CB should produce with a test dipole connected to his analyzer. If he's
getting, e.g., 20dB or more above the estimate, the likelihood that it's a
legal CB transmission is effectively zero.

---Joel

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally,

Bad way to get on someones good side. Usually considered fightin' words.
Some places you can look up the local ham club and ask for help correcting
at your end if you don't point fingers. As for myself and others I was
brought up with, it was standard proceedure to insure cleanliness at our
end, and bend over backward to make sure our neighbors were happy. Things
like this aren't being taught in the seminars, nor is the knowledge getting
through to newer recruits. I also had problems with a neighbor at one point
and described to him exactly how to fix it at his end and due to his
beligerance, he raged for another year before actually taking my advice,
then appologizing and in fact THANKING me for the best TV reception he had
never seen before.

Take the step by step approach. Do away with any antenna Amp if possible
and check for flaky connectors and cables. RG-59 cables should be thrown
out in favor of RG-6 Quad shield for all TV cables including jumpers.

All the the following is your best advise, but I find the snap together type
of ferrites to have marginal results. Use the large Doughnut type that will
allow you to loop the connector through several turns (4-10) for the Speaker
wires and for the TV cable too (but use large loops to avoid kinking) just
before going into the amplifier or stack. This is a good way to tidy up
extra wire. Two or three doughnuts do better if you need extra protection
This keeps the energy from riding along the cable right into the chassis
where unintended bad things happen. With this setup I am able to watch
of-the-air broadcast TV while operating a 500 watt station in the same room.

I haven't bothered with the computer speakers in the next room though. They
pick up the data noise from nearby cellphones but not the ham station... Go
figure!


Well, I have some good news and some bad news for you.

Let's do the bad news first, OK?

As others have pointed out, it's entirely possible that your neighbor
is transmitting legally. If he has a ham license, he could be
transmitting with power levels of up to 1500 watts, in most bands, and
still be entirely within the bounds of his license.

The fact that he "didn't deny" that he was "broadcasting illegally"
isn't proof, by any means. He may simply have not wanted to get into
an argument with a neighbor who was making harsh accusations without
proof or evidence (and, sorry to say, I *am* referring to you here).

Unless you have evidence that he's transmitting without a license, or
in ways which violate whatever license he has, you don't have much
legal leverage, and probably won't be able to persuade anybody to do
anything on your behalf.

As others have pointed out... if a stereo amplifier, or loudspeaker,
or telephone starts picking up and reproducing radio transmissions,
then *this* device is defective/broken/badly-designed. This is a
condition referred to as "undesired operation" - the phone or speaker
is reacting to something (a strong RF field) which is irrelevant to
this device's normal mode of operation.

It is the position of the FCC that such "undesired operation" is a
defect in the device in question, and not the fault of a (legal) radio
transmission. It's is technically possible (and not all that
difficult) to shield and filter devices such as amplifiers and phones
so that they don't react to RF fields. Some manufacturers skimp on
this filtering and shielding, in order to save money... and if the
consumer buys such a device (rather than a more expensive, better-
designed one) then any problems which result are the responsibility of
the consumer and the device's manufacturer.

Many, many consumer electronics devices these days come with a "Part
15" label or advisory, on the device or in the manual. Part of the
wording says these devices "must not interfere" with licensed radio
services, and "must accept" interference from both licensed and
unlicensed radio services "including interference which causes
undesired operation".

That's the bad news.

Now, for the good news.

It's usually possible to add some after-market RF suppression devices
to the affected components, and greatly reduce or entirely eliminate
the interference. You can buy such devices over the counter or by
mail, and they're not expensive.

For phones, a small filter which plugs in between the phone cord and
the wall outlet will often do the trick. Plug-in DSL filters are
commonly available and will probably do the job well enough.

For loudspeakers and stereos - in most cases I've seen, the RF is
being picked up by the wires between the speaker and amplifier or
PC... the wires act as antennas, carry the RF into the amplifier
section, and the amplifier "detects" the RF by accident and converts
it to audio and amplifies it. It is often possible to entirely
eliminate such unwanted pickup by adding an interference suppressor
(a.k.a "choke" or "ferrite") to each speaker wire, right before it
enters the amplifier. The commonest variety is a "snap-on" two-part
ferrite - snap it open, wind the speaker wire through it a few times
(leaving a short stub of wire at the end), snap it closed, and
reconnect the wire to the amplifier/receiver. With amplified speakers
(computer or subwoofer), put a ferrite right at the speaker end of the
wire.

Adding ferrites to the AC power cords of the receiver, amplified
subwoofers, etc. is also a good idea.

For TV interference, you may need a "high-pass filter" connected in
the antenna line right at the TV. This will keep the strong RF signal
from your neighbor's transmitter out of the TV set's receiver.

Ferrites and filters are probably available at your local Radio Shack,
or by mailorder from quite a few suppliers.

For further information about actually solving the problem, I'd
suggest that you look at the ARRL's extensive collection of
information about this issue. Start at

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html

for a table of contents and a good overview of the basic issues
involved. The "Information for neighbors of hams" page is also
worthwhile reading.

Oh... if you want to know whether your neighbor is a ham, you may be
able to find out from:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...rchLicense.jsp

Click "Amateur", then plug in your zipcode and do a search. See if
your neighbor's name comes up.

However, even if your neighbor doesn't have a ham license, and is
transmitting on CB, it's entirely possible that his transmissions
could be getting into your radio even if they were limited to legal
power... and if so, he wouldn't be under any obligation to stop
transmitting or reduce power.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Aug 20, 10:22*pm, "JB" wrote:
"Dave Platt" wrote in message

...

He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally,

Bad way to get on someones good side. *Usually considered fightin' words.


Really?

You have no idea about how the conversation transpired.

DES wrote:
On Aug 20, 10:22 pm, "JB" wrote:
"Dave Platt" wrote in message

...

He has been getting louder and louder over
the years to the point of what I described in my earlier post about
the problem with the TV's now.
And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally,
Bad way to get on someones good side. Usually considered fightin' words.


Really?

You have no idea about how the conversation transpired.

He knows enough that you told the neighbor he was broadcasting
illegally. Just like you said.

So okay. Do you want to solve the problem, or do you want to be one of
the stories on Dateline some evening? About the two nieghbors who
couldn't get along, and it escalated into something much worse...
Perhaps it isn't important for you to get along with your neighbors, but
you made it a lot harder to fix the problem.

If this person is a Ham and operating legally, it's your responsibility.
In most cases the Ham is really happy to help, because in most cases,
they just want to be a good neighbor. Oh, but wait, you already poisoned
the waters. After all, He's doing this illegally, eh?

On the other hand, if he is a CB'er using illegal power, you have a
whole lot more leverage. You can turn him in to the F.C.C. and they can
take care of the matter. But wait! He knows exactly who turned him in,
doesn't he?

But your attitude here in the group, where people are actually trying to
help you, indicates that you might be just as worried about "being
right" as you are about having the problem fixed. People try to give
good advice, and you get p***d off at them. Have fun!

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

And even the very first time I approached him, I mentioned that I knew
he was broadcasting illegally,

Bad way to get on someones good side. Usually considered fightin' words.


/Really?

/You have no idea about how the conversation transpired.

Truly... I see you weren't interested in anything else I said. Perhaps
the conversation was worse than I imagined.