On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

I used to have the nomenclatures of all those antennas memorized, but, alas,
having gotten away from EMI inspections in 2003 and having fully retired
last year, all I can call to mind is the AS-2815/SSR-1 (your "Drooped Cross
Horizontal")

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

I used to have the nomenclatures of all those antennas memorized, but,
alas,
having gotten away from EMI inspections in 2003 and having fully retired
last year, all I can call to mind is the AS-2815/SSR-1 (your "Drooped
Cross
Horizontal")

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

Hi "Sal"

I'd like to know more about the Drooped Cross
Horizontal"). Do you know the frequency it is designed for?

Jerry KD6JDJ

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:01:10 GMT, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

I used to have the nomenclatures of all those antennas memorized, but,
alas,
having gotten away from EMI inspections in 2003 and having fully retired
last year, all I can call to mind is the AS-2815/SSR-1 (your "Drooped
Cross
Horizontal")

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

Hi "Sal"

I'd like to know more about the Drooped Cross
Horizontal"). Do you know the frequency it is designed for?

Jerry KD6JDJ


Hi Jerry,

I built a model of it, and from by guess and by golly, I presumed it
would be somewhere in the middle of the VHF/UHF Shipboard Band
(225-400 MHz) and made it resonant at 300 MHz (arbitrary selection,
mind you).

Let me know if you want a copy of that file.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:01:10 GMT, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

I used to have the nomenclatures of all those antennas memorized, but,
alas,
having gotten away from EMI inspections in 2003 and having fully retired
last year, all I can call to mind is the AS-2815/SSR-1 (your "Drooped
Cross
Horizontal")

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical
dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on
an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

Hi "Sal"

I'd like to know more about the Drooped Cross
Horizontal"). Do you know the frequency it is designed for?

Jerry KD6JDJ


Hi Jerry,

I built a model of it, and from by guess and by golly, I presumed it
would be somewhere in the middle of the VHF/UHF Shipboard Band
(225-400 MHz) and made it resonant at 300 MHz (arbitrary selection,
mind you).

Let me know if you want a copy of that file.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard

Yes, I sure would like to see your EZNEC file. I'd benefit from seeing
how you modeled it too.
The antenna looks like it iis designed for satellite reception.
It interests me to consider that the "DCA" that I developed would
(perhaps) be a design concept applicable to this operational requirement.

Jerry KD6JDJ

Jerry wrote:

...
Hi Richard

Yes, I sure would like to see your EZNEC file. I'd benefit from seeing
how you modeled it too.
The antenna looks like it iis designed for satellite reception.
It interests me to consider that the "DCA" that I developed would
(perhaps) be a design concept applicable to this operational requirement.

Jerry KD6JDJ

Uhh, those eznec files, they are kinda like a high-school\college friend
recently explained to me in financial terms:

"If you have a sheet of paper claiming a "controlling interest in gold",
all you REALLY have is a sheet of paper! If you are looking at the gold
you are "invested" in, you REALLY HAVE the gold!" wink

But then, it is only when you realize there have been more "certificates
in 'controlling' interests in gold" issued than the amount of gold which
exists in the world, that, you suddenly awaken to a HARSH reality! (like
some have "been had!")

Read about "The Great Depression", I tell 'ya, there are clues to be had
there! I mean, really, it is the same old game, just new "marks!"
chuckle

Regards,
JS

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:01:10 GMT, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:33:28 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

However, returning to my own recent shipboard experience and antennas
there, I will later today post a link to a dozen or so pictures. It
will include shots of Guss' Loops. I dare say several of these
pictures will provoke much head scratching (but only to those few
actually interested in antennas here in this forum).

http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/navy/

I used to have the nomenclatures of all those antennas memorized, but,
alas,
having gotten away from EMI inspections in 2003 and having fully retired
last year, all I can call to mind is the AS-2815/SSR-1 (your "Drooped
Cross
Horizontal")

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical
dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on
an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

Hi "Sal"

I'd like to know more about the Drooped Cross
Horizontal"). Do you know the frequency it is designed for?

Jerry KD6JDJ


Hi Jerry,

I built a model of it, and from by guess and by golly, I presumed it
would be somewhere in the middle of the VHF/UHF Shipboard Band
(225-400 MHz) and made it resonant at 300 MHz (arbitrary selection,
mind you).

Let me know if you want a copy of that file.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard

That is an interesting antenna (AS-2815/SSR-1). I didnt know how to feed
it, but I see how you did it.
If that *is* used to communicate with polar orbiting satellites, I'd
expect the DCA to outperform it.
I have demonstrated fairly well that the DCA outperforms the Quad Helix
for reception from NOAA polar orbiting satellites. I'd be curious to know
what the Navy would think of the DCA for a replacement of that
AS-2815/SSR-1.

Jerry KD6JDJ

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:31:31 GMT, "Jerry"
wrote:

Hi Richard

That is an interesting antenna (AS-2815/SSR-1). I didnt know how to feed
it, but I see how you did it.
If that *is* used to communicate with polar orbiting satellites, I'd
expect the DCA to outperform it.
I have demonstrated fairly well that the DCA outperforms the Quad Helix
for reception from NOAA polar orbiting satellites. I'd be curious to know
what the Navy would think of the DCA for a replacement of that
AS-2815/SSR-1.

Jerry KD6JDJ

Hi Jerry,

Well, I got most of the structural details down OK. However, the feed
is by guess and by golly. In the pictures you can catch a hint of it
(especially when you compare to my file), but this does not say if
there is a phasing harness hidden inside the stanchion tube.

As for the Navy being interested in your DCA, I've been on the vendor
list for years, and worked with their RFPs the same time. It is not
for someone who isn't ready to seriously commit a lot of time to
paperwork.

As for the others following this about crossed antennas, helical
antennas, there is one model the Navy uses that has interesting design
(Art will probably claim it proves what ever flavor theory he is
selling today) the AS-2227/SRN-9:
http://www.combatindex.com/hardware/...v/as-2227.html
http://www.combatindex.com/hardware/...as-2227_01.jpg

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Jerry" wrote in message
...
..

Hi "Sal"

I'd like to know more about the Drooped Cross
Horizontal"). Do you know the frequency it is designed for?

Jerry KD6JDJ

Yes. Its nomenclature is AS-2815/SSR-1A. It was designed for the UHF
satellite "Fleet Broadcast," 240 - 315 MHz, but I have seen it used only in
a narrower range, more like 248 - 262 MHz. The pattern is semi-omni,
essentially taking in a view of the entire sky.

The system is receive-only and has been a mainstay of fleet comms for
decades. The version I grew up with had a 1200 bps digital mux of fifteen
74 baud TTY signals (100 WPM). It may have advanced since then; I don't
know the capabilities of the -A version. (I hope they made it more
idiot-proof.)

Ships are usually fitted with three or four antennas, strategically placed
so that at least one of them is clear of blockage. The system uses what is
called "pre-detection integration," whereby the strongest signal is
demodulated, on the presumption that it's the best quality. It's a form of
diversity reception.

The original AN/SSR-1 system downconverted the received signal to a 19.95
MHz first-IF out on deck, a few feet from the antenna. I believe the
AN/SSR-1A amplifies the received signal and it goes all the way to the radio
room at the d/l frequency. Maybe somebody will know for sure whether that's
right, but I think so.

"Sal"
(KD6VKW)

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:35:02 -0700, "Sal M. Onella"
wrote:

You zeroed in on some cryppie antennas. I rocognize the biconical dipole,
an HFDF antenna and a Rubicon antenna. They're often found together on an
Aegis cruiser. (Makes me want to put on my coveralls and get back out
there -- or maybe not.)

There were more antennas to select from for posting, but they
inhabited higher frequencies and had less obvious structural elements
- like one I stood next to while the crew manned the rails. Not
crypto, per sé, but one of those spook traffic sniffers that was the
size of an industrial washing machine, sitting on the weather deck of
the forward superstructure. The CT Chief standing next to me pointed
it out.

The shipboard shots were either the USS Bunker Hill, or the USS
Princeton, AEGIS cruisers as you have already said.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC