(jaroslav lipka) wrote in message . com...
Hi Art

it is my experience that people with the greatest mastery of
the queen's english use it with great effect to deflect questions and
to avoid giving straight answers,and to change the subject without you
realising that they have done so. Politicians and Richards 1and 2
being good examples. What i have witnessed going on in your last
couple of threads has not led me to change my opinion.

Your tenacity and conviction in the face of the opposition on
this group is admirable. Stick to your guns, for what it is worth my
money is on you.

Jaro.

What I can't fiqure out is why he even cares what anyone on here
thinks.
Why doesn't he just build the things and use them? Why the need to
convince us of anything? Heck, I know from modeling that what he
describes can work as far as the tuning device being able to tune the
dipole. "loop/cap/dipole combo. "
I tuned his 20m loop/dipole thing on all bands 20m-10m. I know the
exact cap values needed for each band.
Big deal....
But it's no different than any other dipole as far as pattern or gain.
It's no different than using an autotuner at the feed, T match, or
whatever. His loop and cap is a matching device. Nothing more, nothing
less. And it radiates very little as far as disturbing the dipole
pattern, regardless of what Art seems to think. Also, it doesn't tune
well below the resonant 1/4 wave frequency of the dipole, without
added inductance. All he is doing is placing a tuning network at the
feedpoint of the antenna.
Again, Big deal....I don't see what the fuss is...
I think the main problem he has is that many on this group don't or
won't automatically embrace his design as the best thing since sliced
bread.
But why would they? His antenna is cumbersome, overly complicated,
probably a royal pain to set up,"the patented version", and the gains
over just feeding the dipole or array with say low loss ladder line
and tuner are miniscule, if any. His antenna is just not practical for
*most* people. I sure wouldn't have any use for it at all. I use full
size resonant antennas for the most part. Why would I want to
downgrade?
The way I see it is he has an unhealthy need to *prove* this design.
Seriously.
The guy is obsessed over the thing, and this is not very healthy.
I think he will end up in a rubber room before it's over with, the way
this seems to bother him. Myself, if I were him, I would ignore all,
build it and use it, if thats what he wants. He'll never convince too
many on here of the merits of his antenna, because to most of us, it
has none over what most of us currently use. Any of my 160m antennas
will totally thrash his current small "hi-Q" device. But if it's handy
for him, more power to him. MK

nm5k@w
t.net (Mark Keith) wrote in message

Mark, I cannot stand by while the pack readies itself to attack this
gut
purely because he does not conform with the general group
I will bare myself to the group and then open another thread where you
can renue the assaults on me.
I was a child in England on Sept3 1939,scooling was not an issue, when
war swirles around you the public is rallied to stories of old glories
where England has fought many battles in its history and how in the
corner of any battle fields there lies a mound that contains a piece
of England. When things go wrong then we are reminded of how things
can go wrong in the story of how the king fled from a battle field on
a fiery horse and from which the poetry spills about how for the sake
of a nail a shoe was lost.
After the war I embarked on schooling at night even tho I was also
working but at that time they had raised the school leaving age to 15
so in a way I was lucky. More than a decade later I finally passed all
the examinations required of a professional enginner and was invited
to the U.S. to partake in the good life.
As with all people there is an aging process and you are prone to
things happening that never occured before, mine was a heart attack,
lots of people have those, but in my case a projectile somehow got
loose in my brain severing all the communication wires that had taken
half a century to grow. This phenomina forced me back to near
childhood where one starts the learning proces by toutching and
watching and seeing. Sounds simple but taking that course allowed me
to get of the bed and pursue things. In my case it was to first get my
memory going so I could read ( no I did not make such a logical choice
this is inbuilt human instincts. Eventualy I turned to antennas as it
allowed me to go out on the land and piddle with antennas even tho I
was so, so at evrything
but I was not being judges. To move on quicker, the idea that Brown
had with a loop to detune errant transmissions and over a few years
was rewarded when I read the Moxon book. Here he showed a combination
loop dipole that could be used
for at least three bands. What was important to me was the impotance
of coupling
which brings up the issue that no where does it say that all antennas
must be based around wavelength and the accompanying series circuit.
Moxon didn't have the benefit of a computor and his work was all done
long hand where I had fuel to follow my instincts. Recognising that
Moxon had not gone into the intricacies
of how important the distributed loads on the radiating members I
honed that design together with the addition of a motor such that the
tree band s he had chosen were connected in SWR form ( unfortunately
he opted for a resonant feed point approach) After a few more years I
was confident enough to share what I had found and instead of spending
a large amount of money I wrote up a patent for my self knowing that
even if I could write reasonably well which I couldn't
QST would never print such a thing anymore. So yes I got a patent and
even followed it with another on and then another one which I withdrew
because of a hail of critisicm. One of the reasons was because of
irregular learning to say the least I was not privy to the use of
regular terms that one would obtain with a formal education. My former
education was lost tho I like to think that some is returning. On
reflection if I can use that term it is normal for experts to attack
even experts and even trash them if possible.
Thus when I shared my experiences probably in an unclear way or what
ever I the man became the focus and not the story that I wanted to
impart. Eventually
somebody pointed out that I had no integrty and the technical side was
lost.
Now it was a fight against the man, an englishman in the US that one
can join with experts to maul. Yes I could have left like others that
had been trashed in the past many of which were just people you were
willing to search for a way to stretch the envelope . However for me
the 'corner in every battlefield' rang in my ears consistantly and
perhaps I became a child again and decided I would only leave on my
own terms and not those of a shabby mob, a very hurtfull and painful
journey to be sure. Now I see the formation for another attack, not on
me but somebody who came out and posted something that alluded to me
and that I feel is so,so wrong. Iwill start another thread which goes
back to my first entrance on this group here possible some of the
newer members will focus on the technical side by looking at the
picture that I hold and not on the man holding it. I will do this to
lure you all from what you are now readying to do
and you can then determine if indeed I am a man ready for the rubber
room because of insanity. To the initial poster, thanks but no thanks,
you have a life to live, remove youself and enjoy the good life.

Regards
Art Unwin...KB9MZ........XG and so, so proud of it.

Art, KB9MZ wrote:
"Here he (Moxon) showed a combination loop dipole that could be used for
at least three bands. What was important to me was the importance of
coupling which brings up the issue that no where does it say that all
antennas must be based around wavelength and the accompanying series
circuit."

Just as surely, Moxon does not say that his loop and dipole antenna is
aperiodic.

Every piece of wire has a frequency of first resonance where its
distributed inductance and distributed capacitance have equal reactance
magnitudes. At this frequency, these reactances of opposite types
exactly cancel leaving only resistance to oppose antenna current.

Either side of resonance, antenna impedance rises sharply due to
reactance. Radiation resistance causes the Q to be low as compared to an
unloaded LC tuned circuit. An antenna may have a Q in the teens while an
unloaded LC circuit can have a Q in the hundreds.

Moxon may have assumed his readers understood such antennas as his were
resonant and sensitive to frequency (wavelength).

I don`t have Moxon`s diagram but from Art`s description of long ago, his
version conjoins loop and center-fed dipole rod. The feedline connects
directly to the loop or through a variable capacitor. In either case,
coupling seems complete to me.

I guess Moxon didn`t motorize the capacitance in his T / gamma matching
system, so Art patented it.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

nm5k@w
t.net (Mark Keith) wrote in message

Mark, I cannot stand by while the pack readies itself to attack this
gut
purely because he does not conform with the general group
I will bare myself to the group and then open another thread where you
can renue the assaults on me.
I was a child in England on Sept3 1939,scooling was not an issue, when
war swirles around you the public is rallied to stories of old glories
where England has fought many battles in its history and how in the
corner of any battle fields there lies a mound that contains a piece
of England. When things go wrong then we are reminded of how things
can go wrong in the story of how the king fled from a battle field on
a fiery horse and from which the poetry spills about how for the sake
of a nail a shoe was lost.
After the war I embarked on schooling at night even tho I was also
working but at that time they had raised the school leaving age to 15
so in a way I was lucky. More than a decade later I finally passed all
the examinations required of a professional enginner and was invited
to the U.S. to partake in the good life.
As with all people there is an aging process and you are prone to
things happening that never occured before, mine was a heart attack,
lots of people have those, but in my case a projectile somehow got
loose in my brain severing all the communication wires that had taken
half a century to grow. This phenomina forced me back to near
childhood where one starts the learning proces by toutching and
watching and seeing. Sounds simple but taking that course allowed me
to get of the bed and pursue things. In my case it was to first get my
memory going so I could read ( no I did not make such a logical choice
this is inbuilt human instincts. Eventualy I turned to antennas as it
allowed me to go out on the land and piddle with antennas even tho I
was so, so at evrything
but I was not being judges. To move on quicker, the idea that Brown
had with a loop to detune errant transmissions and over a few years
was rewarded when I read the Moxon book. Here he showed a combination
loop dipole that could be used
for at least three bands. What was important to me was the impotance
of coupling
which brings up the issue that no where does it say that all antennas
must be based around wavelength and the accompanying series circuit.
Moxon didn't have the benefit of a computor and his work was all done
long hand where I had fuel to follow my instincts. Recognising that
Moxon had not gone into the intricacies
of how important the distributed loads on the radiating members I
honed that design together with the addition of a motor such that the
tree band s he had chosen were connected in SWR form ( unfortunately
he opted for a resonant feed point approach) After a few more years I
was confident enough to share what I had found and instead of spending
a large amount of money I wrote up a patent for my self knowing that
even if I could write reasonably well which I couldn't
QST would never print such a thing anymore. So yes I got a patent and
even followed it with another on and then another one which I withdrew
because of a hail of critisicm. One of the reasons was because of
irregular learning to say the least I was not privy to the use of
regular terms that one would obtain with a formal education. My former
education was lost tho I like to think that some is returning. On
reflection if I can use that term it is normal for experts to attack
even experts and even trash them if possible.
Thus when I shared my experiences probably in an unclear way or what
ever I the man became the focus and not the story that I wanted to
impart. Eventually
somebody pointed out that I had no integrty and the technical side was
lost.
Now it was a fight against the man, an englishman in the US that one
can join with experts to maul. Yes I could have left like others that
had been trashed in the past many of which were just people you were
willing to search for a way to stretch the envelope . However for me
the 'corner in every battlefield' rang in my ears consistantly and
perhaps I became a child again and decided I would only leave on my
own terms and not those of a shabby mob, a very hurtfull and painful
journey to be sure. Now I see the formation for another attack, not on
me but somebody who came out and posted something that alluded to me
and that I feel is so,so wrong. Iwill start another thread which goes
back to my first entrance on this group here possible some of the
newer members will focus on the technical side by looking at the
picture that I hold and not on the man holding it. I will do this to
lure you all from what you are now readying to do
and you can then determine if indeed I am a man ready for the rubber
room because of insanity. To the initial poster, thanks but no thanks,
you have a life to live, remove youself and enjoy the good life.

Regards
Art Unwin...KB9MZ........XG and so, so proud of it.

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
I will do this to
lure you all from what you are now readying to do
and you can then determine if indeed I am a man ready for the rubber
room because of insanity.

Art, I don't know if you know it or not, but some of the greatest
minds in the history of mankind were bipolar. I suspect the manic
phase plus a high IQ cannot be beaten for original creative thought.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:



life story clipped to save 300K server room...

Just one comment....Define coupling.


Iwill start another thread which goes
back to my first entrance on this group here possible some of the
newer members will focus on the technical side by looking at the
picture that I hold and not on the man holding it.

That shouldn't be too hard as long as you don't forget to wear your
skivvies when the picture is taken.

I will do this to
lure you all from what you are now readying to do

I'm fixing to go to the bank. I doubt you will be able to lure me away
from that mission.
Money talks, bull#%@ walks...

and you can then determine if indeed I am a man ready for the rubber
room because of insanity.

You will know when that moment arrives. You'll go to the store to buy
donuts and fretzels and teenagers will come up to you and ask "Hey' Are
you Howard Hughes?" "Man! them nine inch nails are the cats ass!"
"Old man, you smell!" "Are you related to Billy Gibbons?" etc, etc ...


To the initial poster, thanks but no thanks,
you have a life to live, remove youself and enjoy the good life.

Will he get a free boat and motor with this limited one time offer? I
know some people who can teach him how to barefoot ski. Some are world
class experts in that field.


--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

(Mark Keith) wrote in message

I know from modeling that what he
describes can work as far as the tuning device being able to tune the
dipole. "loop/cap/dipole combo. "
I tuned his 20m loop/dipole thing on all bands 20m-10m. I know the
exact cap values needed for each band.
Big deal....
But it's no different than any other dipole as far as pattern or gain.
It's no different than using an autotuner at the feed, T match, or
whatever. His loop and cap is a matching device. Nothing more, nothing
less.

g'day Keith

When it comes to modeling what you leave out is just as
important as what you put in, some times more so.
My money is still on Art.
Jaro.

(jaroslav lipka) wrote in message
g'day Keith

When it comes to modeling what you leave out is just as
important as what you put in, some times more so.
My money is still on Art.
Jaro.

To do what?
As far as modeling, I modeled exactly what he told me to. He ok'ed the
diagram of the antenna. As a matter of fact I still have it on my
server.
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k/loopole.jpg
MK

Mark you should have no room for complaints. I offered you unhindered access
to my work including the computor programing system which I would purchase
at my own expense together with the programing I used to substantiated my
findings. You refused that offer prefering to stay with the pack and
ridicule all. You have had access to the patent write ups many times as they
have been brought forward many times by members to serve at a ridicule
point and all you had to do was to click on what was supplied. They also
found a very old page that I had describing the loop/dipole antenna together
with the drawings and you are still complaining. I have personally informed
you that EZNEC was not a suitable vehicle for this work but you proceded on
the point that you were proficient in any sort of computor programing,
and you are still complaining ,and now you bring up a drawing that you say
you put before me even tho you had the option of looking at the many
drawings available. I just looked at the drawing that you proffer and I defy
anybody to look at that and know what it represents. Time and time again I
tried to make peace with you but you chose to tag along with those who have
attacked many contributors in the past since they have a long winning record
in ousting many others. You decided on your nest a long time ago
so you really have no reason to complain as you still have your cohorts
around you that tend to belittle all. Your crying now falls on deaf ears.
Nuff said
'Good day' I think he said
Art


"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
(jaroslav lipka) wrote in message
g'day Keith

When it comes to modeling what you leave out is just as
important as what you put in, some times more so.
My money is still on Art.
Jaro.

To do what?
As far as modeling, I modeled exactly what he told me to. He ok'ed the
diagram of the antenna. As a matter of fact I still have it on my
server.
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k/loopole.jpg
MK

"aunwin" wrote in message news:RE66c.33727$po.297044@attbi_s52...
Mark you should have no room for complaints.

Who's complaining? I could really give a rats ass about you or your
antenna....

I offered you unhindered access
to my work including the computor programing system which I would purchase
at my own expense together with the programing I used to substantiated my
findings.

Why do I need yours? I have many programs. They all pretty much do the
same thing.

You refused that offer prefering to stay with the pack and
ridicule all.

I only ridicule horsecrap Art. I asked the guy a simple frigging
question..
WTF are you going to do, that his money is on? So far, he hasn't
answered. I don't think he knows. If that is ridicule,that just too
damn bad isn't it...What a whiny ass old fart you are, Art.

You have had access to the patent write ups many times as they
have been brought forward many times by members to serve at a ridicule
point and all you had to do was to click on what was supplied.

Are you talking about the rube goldberg looking thing? I've seen it...
They also
found a very old page that I had describing the loop/dipole antenna together
with the drawings and you are still complaining.

Complaining my ass.

I have personally informed
you that EZNEC was not a suitable vehicle for this work

Bull****, Art. Plain and simple.

but you proceded on
the point that you were proficient in any sort of computor programing,

They pretty much all use the same basic engines...

and you are still complaining ,

Again, bite me Art. Complaining my ass. You just wait till I'm REALLY
complaining you frigging fool. Don't screw with me. You **** me off,
and I WILL be your worst frigging nightmare. I'll stick to you like
dried turd particles on a baby's ass. Everything you say that is BS, I
will comment on. Is that what you really want? As is it, I only
comment on about 50% of it...

and now you bring up a drawing that you say
you put before me even tho you had the option of looking at the many
drawings available.

Art, you frigging fool, that is the picture from the modeling program
itself. I sent it to you. You looked at it, and ok'ed it.
I just looked at the drawing that you proffer and I defy
anybody to look at that and know what it represents.

Jeeze...What a frigging idiot you are, Art.

Time and time again I
tried to make peace with you but you chose to tag along with those who have
attacked many contributors in the past since they have a long winning record
in ousting many others.

No Art. I won't kiss your ass. Tag along? Tag along with whom? WTF are
you talking about?

You decided on your nest a long time ago

My nest? Crap....
so you really have no reason to complain as you still have your cohorts
around you that tend to belittle all.

Bite me Art. I could give a flying #$%^ what the others say or think.
That includes you, you old fart.

Your crying now falls on deaf ears.

You'll think crying...
Nuff said

Yea, I think so....
'Good day' I think he said
Art

Yea, later Art. MK