On May 10, 6:58*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On May 9, 3:24*am, Szczepan Biaùek wrote:



*"JIMMIE" ...
On May 8, 4:51 am, Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

It seems that at long distances should appear the phenomenon of frequency
doubling.
See:http://www.rp-photonics.com/frequency_doubling.html

Is such?
S*
The laser must be fed into a non-linear medium for the doubling to

occur. The same would be true for RF.Normally the atmosphere and space
are considered fairly linear in respect to *both RF and light, both
forms of EM radiation. Luckily *for us this is the case, otherwise all
radiation would be multipled to xrays and beyound. *The result would
probablybe the termination of all life as we know it.

Very interesting.
May be it take place. You do not analse the intensity after each doubling.
My question apply to the two sources emitters (oscillatig dipole) in a
lineaar medium.
S*

The presence of a non linear medium is always required for frequency
doubling. The only part of the atmoshere that I know of that meets the
qualification is the ionosphere which contains plasma which could act
as a nonlinear medium. I suppose that if the signal were powerful
enough to produce ionization that a frequency could be doubled..

Jimmie

Hi,
Let me help you with your problem.
You mentioned a cycle which you know is equal to a period or
occillation of a radio wave. Let us say that an antenna charges up and
then radiates ie half the time or occillation for each action. Now you
have decided to apply power to a half wave antenna asnd not a full
wave antenna that is occupied in some action all of the time period.
Now you have to decide what your half wave antenna is going to do.
Charge up only and let the power leak away or radiate without having
any power!
What you have to do is to imagine a radiator as a tank circuit where
you have two energy storage areas, a inductor and a capacitor and for
the mom ent free from losses.
Thus the energy loads up the inductor which then empties into the
capacitor which in turn empties back into the inductor e.t.c Thus only
one charge is supplied and no more since the same charge is really not
being let go!
This is seen as perpetual motion which is an impossibility. Thus if
energy is going to be used it will only be expended for half a cycle
and then the circuit recharges for the next cycle. Now you should be
able to see that a half wave antenna is only capable of working half
the time so in no way can you be applying a doubling of frequency
motion when you only have a half wave antenna to work with. So S* go
back to your study but first replace your half wave antenna and re
think things out with a full wave antenna in loop form with a tank
circuit in mind and when you have all things in place
substitute your half wave antenna and determine what this does to you
tank circuit and radiation.

"Art Unwin" wrote
...
On May 10, 6:58 am, JIMMIE wrote:
On May 9, 3:24 am, Szczepan Biaùek wrote:



"JIMMIE"
...
On May 8, 4:51 am, Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

It seems that at long distances should appear the phenomenon of
frequency
doubling.
See:http://www.rp-photonics.com/frequency_doubling.html

Is such?
S*
The laser must be fed into a non-linear medium for the doubling to

occur. The same would be true for RF.Normally the atmosphere and space
are considered fairly linear in respect to both RF and light, both
forms of EM radiation. Luckily for us this is the case, otherwise all
radiation would be multipled to xrays and beyound. The result would
probablybe the termination of all life as we know it.

Very interesting.
May be it take place. You do not analse the intensity after each
doubling.
My question apply to the two sources emitters (oscillatig dipole) in a
lineaar medium.
S*

The presence of a non linear medium is always required for frequency
doubling. The only part of the atmoshere that I know of that meets the
qualification is the ionosphere which contains plasma which could act
as a nonlinear medium. I suppose that if the signal were powerful
enough to produce ionization that a frequency could be doubled..

Jimmie

Hi,
Let me help you with your problem.
You mentioned a cycle which you know is equal to a period or
occillation of a radio wave. Let us say that an antenna charges up and
then radiates ie half the time or occillation for each action. Now you
have decided to apply power to a half wave antenna asnd not a full
wave antenna that is occupied in some action all of the time period.
Now you have to decide what your half wave antenna is going to do.
Charge up only and let the power leak away or radiate without having
any power!
What you have to do is to imagine a radiator as a tank circuit where
you have two energy storage areas, a inductor and a capacitor and for
the mom ent free from losses.
Thus the energy loads up the inductor which then empties into the
capacitor which in turn empties back into the inductor e.t.c Thus only
one charge is supplied and no more since the same charge is really not
being let go!
This is seen as perpetual motion which is an impossibility. Thus if
energy is going to be used it will only be expended for half a cycle
and then the circuit recharges for the next cycle. Now you should be
able to see that a half wave antenna is only capable of working half
the time so in no way can you be applying a doubling of frequency
motion when you only have a half wave antenna to work with. So S* go
back to your study but first replace your half wave antenna and re
think things out with a full wave antenna in loop form with a tank
circuit in mind and when you have all things in place
substitute your half wave antenna and determine what this does to you
tank circuit and radiation.

Our problem apply to the original Hertz experiment. See:
http://people.seas.harvard.edu/~jone...Hertz_exp.html

There is: "According to theory, if electromagnetic waves were spreading from
the oscillator sparks, they would induce a current in the loop that would
send sparks across the gap"

In EM waves are produced by the current (oscllator sparks in the Hertz
apparatus). One cycle is completed when the current flow to and fro.

But there is possible the other theory. Electric waves are spreading from
the ends (plates or big balls in Hertz apparatus). Now we know that
electrons have mass and are compressible. So at the ends appear and
disappear the huge charges. In that case an electric impulse is send when
the current flows to (from one end) , and the next when the current flows
fro (from the other end). So in one EM cycle are the two electric cycles.
So the frequency is not doubled. The electric is twice more.

It seems that at long distances receiving antennas should work better at the
electric frequencies.
BTW, what exactly means "Luxembourg effect" (Brian wrote: " e.g Luxembourg
Effect; so
doubling is possible.")?
S*

Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
Now you have to decide what your half wave antenna is going to do.
Charge up only and let the power leak away or radiate without having
any power!

A 1/2WL dipole is a standing-wave antenna. Believe it
or not, ~80% of the steady-state energy on a 1/2WL dipole
is not radiated, i.e. as far as total energy is concerned,
radiation is a secondary effect. Energy is traveling in both
directions at the same time on a standing-wave antenna. At
the tip of the antenna, the two energy flows are equal. At
the feedpoint, the reflected wave is only ~20% down in
energy level from the forward wave - the reflected voltage
and current are only ~10% down from the forward voltage and
current. The feedpoint impedance of a 1/2WL dipole is the
result of superposition of the forward and reflected waves.
The Z0 of a 1/2WL dipole using #14 wire at a height of 30
feet is very close to 600 ohms.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

On Mon, 11 May 2009 11:35:41 +0200, Szczepan Bia?ek
wrote:

doubling is possible.")?

No.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 11 May 2009 11:35:41 +0200, Szczepan Bia?ek
wrote:

doubling is possible.")?

No.

Here is wrote that it happend:
http://books.google.pl/books?id=QSke...P RA1-PA53,M1

There on the page 53 you can find that the medium-wave were disturbed by the
long-vave (halve-way between).
S*

On Thu, 14 May 2009 21:16:06 +0200, Szczepan Bia?ek
wrote:

Here is wrote that it happend:

Trash is what this reference is called. Someone's diary is not
science.

If it were not trash, it does not prove doubling. Did you actually
read it? It doesn't prove IMD either as there would be a billion
reports every day from the presence of the MegaWatt LW stations in
Europe. I don't suppose you listen to radio either?

MythBusted = Trash and False.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Thu, 14 May 2009 21:16:06 +0200, Szczepan Bia?ek
wrote:

Here is wrote that it happend:

Trash is what this reference is called. Someone's diary is not
science.

If it were not trash, it does not prove doubling. Did you actually
read it? It doesn't prove IMD either as there would be a billion
reports every day from the presence of the MegaWatt LW stations in
Europe. I don't suppose you listen to radio either?

Not all MegaWatt LW stations are the Hertz dipole. Such was in Warsow but
collapsed.
If station has only one end no doubling. Even if it has two the lower must
have the same possibilities (tip top of mountain).

But the main issue is not doubling. Are you sure that magnetic whirl exist
around a wire?
S*

On Fri, 15 May 2009 09:08:06 +0200, Szczepan Bia?ek
wrote:
Here is wrote that it happend:

Trash is what this reference is called. Someone's diary is not
science.

If it were not trash, it does not prove doubling. Did you actually
read it? It doesn't prove IMD either as there would be a billion
reports every day from the presence of the MegaWatt LW stations in
Europe. I don't suppose you listen to radio either?

Not all MegaWatt LW stations are the Hertz dipole. Such was in Warsow but
collapsed.

This is a ridiculous observation. However, if I were to allow it, it
thus also means that SOME MegaWatt LW stations are "the Hertz dipole,"
by your own admission (which is significantly in question as to be
authoritative because you don't really know, do you?).

If station has only one end no doubling. Even if it has two the lower must
have the same possibilities (tip top of mountain).

As SOME MegaWatt LW stations are "the Hertz dipole," it follows there
must be literally billions of examples of what you describe. And yet
you offer no personal experience, and the record is empty of others'
observations.

MythBusted = Trash and False.


But the main issue is not doubling.

Funny you would say that in a thread whose topic was your deliberate
choice.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC