I have a 64 foot Trylon Titan Tower at 64 feet (with a 3 element Steppir)
and it's 30 metres from my home. I intend on burying the feedlines (X2
1/2" heliax and x2 RG213 coax) plus rotators cable and Steppir cable. I
was going to dig a 4" wide by 6" deep trench then just bury them. Yeah,
that's alot of work with a shovel. Any better suggestions? This is my
Labour Day weekend job (get the pun?).

73 de Mike VE6HMG

On Sep 5, 10:20*pm, "Mike, who else?" wrote:
I have a 64 foot Trylon Titan Tower at 64 feet (with a 3 element Steppir)
and it's 30 metres from my home. I intend on burying the feedlines (X2
1/2" heliax and x2 RG213 coax) plus rotators cable and Steppir cable. I
was going to dig a 4" wide by 6" deep trench then just bury them. Yeah,
that's alot of work with a shovel. Any better suggestions? This is my
Labour Day weekend job (get the pun?).

73 de Mike VE6HMG

That is my setup but I put large 4 inch plastic tubing in the trench
so that the innards could be easily removed, inspected and added to
without having to re dig the trench each time.
I left a heavy wire in place to make it easy to make changes over the
years. Because of the length underground and then the tower I used 7/8
heliax. I also placed a pipe into the tower concrete so I could place
the coax inside the tower if I wanted without the possibility of the
mower hitting it.

Mike, who else? wrote:
I have a 64 foot Trylon Titan Tower at 64 feet (with a 3 element Steppir)
and it's 30 metres from my home. I intend on burying the feedlines (X2
1/2" heliax and x2 RG213 coax) plus rotators cable and Steppir cable. I
was going to dig a 4" wide by 6" deep trench then just bury them. Yeah,
that's alot of work with a shovel. Any better suggestions? This is my
Labour Day weekend job (get the pun?).

73 de Mike VE6HMG

Well, if it were me and more than a few feet, I'd rent a trencher for
installing sprinklers systems and put it all in a PVC pipe with
downward facing elbows at each end stuffed with foam to keep bugs
and water out.

Mine has been out there for about 6 years and no water or bugs yet...


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 21:13:57 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin
wrote:

On Sep 5, 10:20*pm, "Mike, who else?" wrote:
I have a 64 foot Trylon Titan Tower at 64 feet (with a 3 element Steppir)
and it's 30 metres from my home. I intend on burying the feedlines (X2
1/2" heliax and x2 RG213 coax) plus rotators cable and Steppir cable. I
was going to dig a 4" wide by 6" deep trench then just bury them. Yeah,
that's alot of work with a shovel. Any better suggestions? This is my
Labour Day weekend job (get the pun?).

73 de Mike VE6HMG

That is my setup but I put large 4 inch plastic tubing in the trench
so that the innards could be easily removed, inspected and added to
without having to re dig the trench each time.
I left a heavy wire in place to make it easy to make changes over the
years. Because of the length underground and then the tower I used 7/8
heliax. I also placed a pipe into the tower concrete so I could place
the coax inside the tower if I wanted without the possibility of the
mower hitting it.

I just hate to admit that Art is right (this time only). Conduit is
the way to go. Don't direct bury the cables. Bury conduit and pull
the cables through.

Incidentally, a local state radio building went cheap and used direct
burial cables. 3 months later, the whole mess failed. I popped the
pull box cover and discovered that the gophers had chewed through the
coax and control cables.

I don't know what manner of ground you're working with, but you might
consider horizontal drilling. See:
http://www.borit.com
About $250 or available from your local rental yard. Most plumbers
and electricians have one or something like it for laying conduit
under driveways and sidewalks. The standard back reamer is about 5"
diameter, which is about right for 4" I.D. schedule 40.

Otherwise, you get to do some trenching. Sweat or Ditch Witch from
the rental yard. You decide. You'll need to go considerably deeper
than 6 inches. Check your local electrical code, but as I vaguely
recall, it's at least 2.5 ft. Putting 1.8" of dirt on top of a 4.2"
diameter pipe just isn't going to work. The first time someone drive
a vehicle over the conduit, it's going to crack. Dig deeper.

Actually, I'm not sure that 4" diameter will work. Measure or
calculate the required diameter. Just use a circle template and draw
the bundle on a piece of paper. Leave PLENTY of extra room. Be
prepared to leave extra space to pull the RF connectors through (one
at a time) or you'll be cutting off some expensive Heliax connectors.
Don't forget to leave a polypropylene pull line in the conduit for
repairs and additions. You'll need 100 meters of line as you need to
pull a new line through with every wire pull. 30 meters is a long way
for a conduit pull. You may need to get some slimy cable lube to make
it easier. You can try to pull the whole bundle through at once, but
I don't think you'll make it, especially with 90 degree elbows at each
end.

Put some effort into making sure that the conduit is waterproof. This
is best done by proper gluing and testing with an air compressor and
bubble soap mix. I'm partial to sealing the ends and pressurizing the
conduit, but that's overkill for the typical ham installation.

You'll need a 90 degree elbow at each end. Use the largest radius you
can get away with. Heliax does not like to be snaked around sharp
corners. You'll also need some kind of protective cover or rams-head
at the conduit ends. You don't want the open end of the conduit
pointing up and acting as a funnel.

You should also get some useful pointers from the Tower Talk mailing
list:
http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk

In case you haven't noticed, this is a bit more than a weekend
project. It's also not cheap. Good luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Dear Mike: If you decide not to place wire in conduit, consider the use of
PE jackets. Heliax seems to have PE jackets. The animals in Michigan love
chewing on PVC jacked wire/coax. You might be far enough north not to have
the sort of chewing animals common in Michigan.

My experience with 4 inch conduit (plastic, outdoor) is that one may pull
one set of wire/coax while assembling and sealing ten foot sections, and
then forget about pulling more wires.

Let us all know what you ended up doing. 73, Mac N8TT

--
J. McLaughlin; Michigan, USA
Home:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...


On Sep 5, 10:20 pm, "Mike, who else?" wrote:
I have a 64 foot Trylon Titan Tower at 64 feet (with a 3 element
Steppir)
and it's 30 metres from my home. I intend on burying the feedlines (X2
1/2" heliax and x2 RG213 coax) plus rotators cable and Steppir cable. I
was going to dig a 4" wide by 6" deep trench then just bury them. Yeah,
that's alot of work with a shovel. Any better suggestions? This is my
Labour Day weekend job (get the pun?).

73 de Mike VE6HMG

That is my setup but I put large 4 inch plastic tubing in the trench
so that the innards could be easily removed, inspected and added to
without having to re dig the trench each time.
I left a heavy wire in place to make it easy to make changes over the
years. Because of the length underground and then the tower I used 7/8
heliax. I also placed a pipe into the tower concrete so I could place
the coax inside the tower if I wanted without the possibility of the
mower hitting it.

I just hate to admit that Art is right (this time only). Conduit is
the way to go. Don't direct bury the cables. Bury conduit and pull
the cables through.

Incidentally, a local state radio building went cheap and used direct
burial cables. 3 months later, the whole mess failed. I popped the
pull box cover and discovered that the gophers had chewed through the
coax and control cables.

I don't know what manner of ground you're working with, but you might
consider horizontal drilling. See:
http://www.borit.com
About $250 or available from your local rental yard. Most plumbers
and electricians have one or something like it for laying conduit
under driveways and sidewalks. The standard back reamer is about 5"
diameter, which is about right for 4" I.D. schedule 40.

Otherwise, you get to do some trenching. Sweat or Ditch Witch from
the rental yard. You decide. You'll need to go considerably deeper
than 6 inches. Check your local electrical code, but as I vaguely
recall, it's at least 2.5 ft. Putting 1.8" of dirt on top of a 4.2"
diameter pipe just isn't going to work. The first time someone drive
a vehicle over the conduit, it's going to crack. Dig deeper.

Actually, I'm not sure that 4" diameter will work. Measure or
calculate the required diameter. Just use a circle template and draw
the bundle on a piece of paper. Leave PLENTY of extra room. Be
prepared to leave extra space to pull the RF connectors through (one
at a time) or you'll be cutting off some expensive Heliax connectors.
Don't forget to leave a polypropylene pull line in the conduit for
repairs and additions. You'll need 100 meters of line as you need to
pull a new line through with every wire pull. 30 meters is a long way
for a conduit pull. You may need to get some slimy cable lube to make
it easier. You can try to pull the whole bundle through at once, but
I don't think you'll make it, especially with 90 degree elbows at each
end.

Put some effort into making sure that the conduit is waterproof. This
is best done by proper gluing and testing with an air compressor and
bubble soap mix. I'm partial to sealing the ends and pressurizing the
conduit, but that's overkill for the typical ham installation.

You'll need a 90 degree elbow at each end. Use the largest radius you
can get away with. Heliax does not like to be snaked around sharp
corners. You'll also need some kind of protective cover or rams-head
at the conduit ends. You don't want the open end of the conduit
pointing up and acting as a funnel.

You should also get some useful pointers from the Tower Talk mailing
list:
http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk

In case you haven't noticed, this is a bit more than a weekend
project. It's also not cheap. Good luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

Conduit is the way to go. Don't direct bury the cables. Bury
conduit and pull the cables through.


Oh, yes -- please. I did my satellite dish that way in 1985 and have had no
problems.


You'll need a 90 degree elbow at each end. Use the largest radius you
can get away with.

To the OP: A sweep elbow is that "large radius" section. Sweep elbows are
available in various large radii, like 36", and will treat your Heliax or
other cable bends kindly. The plumbing trades use them, too.

This picture shows a half-buried sweep elbow

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/uploade...GElectPedestal
OpenT6799w.jpg

It's from http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2009/08...-electric.html

The article may provide the OP some tips.

RELATED: With my dish install, I picked too-small PVC and couldn't pull the
whole length. I had to cut the PVC into sections, pull the conduit through
each section (and through new couplings) and then glue the sections back
together. My mistake wasted half a day. Check your "pull-ability" before
gluing your parts into a unit.

Sal

On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:33:52 -0700, "Sal M. Onella"
wrote:

To the OP: A sweep elbow is that "large radius" section. Sweep elbows are
available in various large radii, like 36", and will treat your Heliax or
other cable bends kindly. The plumbing trades use them, too.

I've often thought I would try a 45 degree elbow, and then a straight
section of pipe coming out of the ground at an angle. That makes it
much easier to pull but does look a bit odd. It also has the
advantage that I might be able to use some manner of power assist to
pull the cables through the conduit. Pulling on a 90 degree elbow is
a sure way of breaking it. 45 degrees can be handled with a pully or
careful positioning of the winch. Disclaimer: I've never done this so
beware of surprises.

RELATED: With my dish install, I picked too-small PVC and couldn't pull the
whole length. I had to cut the PVC into sections, pull the conduit through
each section (and through new couplings) and then glue the sections back
together. My mistake wasted half a day. Check your "pull-ability" before
gluing your parts into a unit.

One tower owner had a 90 degree elbow projecting out of the ground
near the outside of the concrete tower pad. He tried to pull the
entire cable bundle through at one time with a winch hooked to a pully
on the tower from above. Instead, he pulled the 90 degree elbow and
about 10ft of pipe out of the ground. I didn't see it happen but was
involved in the subsequent cleanup job.

Moral: Don't let the cable bundle get twisted as it enters the
conduit or it will develop a "lump" and jam.

Tower drivel:
http://www.agl-mag.com
It's totally for commerical tower owners, doesn't have anything on
construction, is stuffed with tower politics, but does make
interesting reading. Full issues are downloadable.
http://www.qmags.com/magazines/PubHomePage.asp?publication=89


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thank you all for your responses. I definitely need to review the best
approach. I've gone through a lot to put this tower up and don't need to
have a weak link in the system. I'll look into getting conduit that meets
electrical code for Alberta. As far a critters are concerned, I have field
& deer mice along with voles so to keep this little buggers out, this is
the best way to tackle the job. I do have an electrician coming to my home
for other upgrades and just may have him work on the conduit piping, too.
Time is against me as I have approximately 6 weeks before the ground
freezes. Oh yes, I have about 2 feet of beautiful Alberta topsoil before I
hit clay. I'll keep the newsgroup up to date with my progress. Once again,
I thank everyone for their ideas.

73 de Mike VE6HMG