"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 6:49 pm, Richard Fry wrote:
On Sep 7, 6:44 pm, "christofire" wrote:

... and if that isn't enough, how about the Racal Antennas
athttp://www.racalantennas.com/products/ground/omnidirectional/hf/difan...

I just now looked at this link, and see that it states that this
radiator configuration is horizontally polarized.

That polarization appears to be "implausible" for this configuration.

Does any scientific documentation exist, or do any measured, real-
world performance results prove that this configuration truly is
horizontally polarized?

RF

You are so dumb! Look at the center pole as being a vector in
opposition to the gravity vector. Then add the two tilted vectors
which represents the vectors of the Coriolis force.
(Yes, you add both of the vectors for Coriollis because it is a
rotational force) You are then left with a horizontal vector that
balances the above vectors. Thus you have horizontal polarization.
Why? Because the vectors outside the boundary are a combination of
two vectors which is gravity and the Coriolis. Now somebody mentioned
the question of polarization purity ! When you include the Coriolis
effect you get exactly that, a pure horizontal polarization which is
very useful in determining whether forces in shear conditions exist at
airports as views of reflection of transmissions are confusing if
you transfer a mixture in the first place. This way they have purity
in radiation so that reflections are more clearer for their
determinations as to what weather conditions exist and hopefully not
"wind shear" where a plane instantly loses altitude.
You are fortunate that you caught me before I left.


None of that sounds very plausible.

What little experience I have of Racal Antennas would suggest they'll be
keeping the details proprietary, but there are some clues in the words of
their advertisement. A 'delta travelling wave antenna' is like half a
rhombic and deltas (i.e. 'V's) can be seen amongst the rigging - horizontal
ones and upward-tilted ones (as well as vertical ones, but they're probably
not driven differentially). A delta supports waves that have the electric
field developed between the two wires so a delta in the horizontal plane
would yield horizontal polarisation.

However, the drawing doesn't make it obvious which pairs of wires are driven
as the deltas, particularly when there appear be eight legs in the outer
ring and three in the inner ring. The words say there are three 'pairs of
delta travelling wave antennas' which probably means three deltas, that is,
three pairs of wires driven differentially - clear English was never their
strong point.

Googling 'difan' didn't yield anything useful so this may be Racal's own
design.

Chris

Richard Fry wrote:
I just now looked at this link, and see that it states that this
radiator configuration is horizontally polarized.
That polarization appears to be "implausible" for this configuration.

Do we know the phasing among the feedpoints?
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Richard Fry wrote:
I just now looked at this link, and see that it states that this
radiator configuration is horizontally polarized.
That polarization appears to be "implausible" for this configuration.

Do we know the phasing among the feedpoints?
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com


.... well certainly not from that web page. The question becomes - does
anyone read this NG who has worked for Racal Antennas or the British
military who has experience of the antenna and would be allowed to tell us?

Chris

Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 8, 11:00 am, Richard Fry wrote:
In the case of a single monopole mounted with its base at earth level,
adding tilt to it makes very little difference in its gain at
elevation angles up to +60 degrees or so, at any azimuth. It does
partially fill the elevation null at the zenith produced by the
vertical monopole, as well as to produce a small amount of h-pol
radiation over most of the compass.

Modeling this in NEC for a 1 MHz, 1/4-wave, straight monopole by
moving its top 10 meters out of plumb changed its peak gain by about
0.01 dB compared to the untilted version, at any azimuth.

RF

Gain has never been as issue in tipping the radiator except for some
who which to interject it.
Pointing's vector shows a radiation patterm that is spherical and in a
state of equilibrium
It is not the radiation pattern of a donut which all are familiar
with. Thus if one wants coverage in all directions one must pursue an
array or conductor in equilibrium.

The "donut" is a red herring. It's a visualization, not a blob of RF
coming off the antenna. All antennas radiate in all directions. Some
directions are higher intensity than others, but all directions none the
less. The donut just exists to help us put a number on what is happening.


rotation is an essential property
of the Universe as fracture of an arbitrary boundary is created by two
forces which are not on a common plane. This is a shear force which
also creates torque or spin ,so it stands to reason that the other
force in combination with gravity is a force of torque or rotation.
If Coriolis is not that vector what other characteristic fits the
bill?

So Coriolis needs re-defined also as not a mechanical *effect*, but as
an electrical *force* that compels objects or energy to rotate.

I'll not be so beholden to summarily reject what you are saying, but
what you are talking about wold have to be something other than Coriolis
effect, it would have to be a as yet undefined and un named force.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Richard Fry" wrote in message
...
On Sep 7, 6:44 pm, "christofire" wrote:
... and if that isn't enough, how about the Racal Antennas at
http://www.racalantennas.com/product...45-30mhz.aspx?

I just now looked at this link, and see that it states that this
radiator configuration is horizontally polarized.

That polarization appears to be "implausible" for this configuration.


from the description and that line drawing i would guess that it is a
combination of delta loops, maybe looped around twice, and probably fed at
the connection point at the bottom of the mast. that would make them
horizontally polarized.

On Sep 9, 5:46*pm, "Dave" wrote:
from the description and that line drawing i would guess that it is a
combination of delta loops, maybe looped around twice, and probably fed at
the connection point at the bottom of the mast. *that would make them
horizontally polarized.
____________

Thanks for your opinions, "Dave."

But as per my first post about this physical configuration, does any
scientific documentation exist, or do any measured, real-world
performance results prove that this configuration truly is
horizontally polarized?

RF