I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

On 19 mar, 22:25, JIMMIE wrote:
I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,


Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
..

On Mar 19, 5:59*pm, Wimpie wrote:
On 19 mar, 22:25, JIMMIE wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. *Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.


Jimmie

On 3/20/2011 3:09 PM, JIMMIE wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:59 pm, wrote:
On 19 mar, 22:25, wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.


Jimmie

I made a j-pole from galvanized steel. It worked beautifully. When I
replaced it with a commercial antenna I notice very little change in
performance and signal strength. I had hoped my kluge was deficient in
performance compared to the commercial antenna. Didn't seem so. My QTH
was way out in the country side about 20 miles from the nearest repeater.

Just a story for you, no hard data. Sorry.

John

On 20 mar, 21:09, JIMMIE wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:59*pm, Wimpie wrote:



On 19 mar, 22:25, JIMMIE wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. *Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate *that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll *try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.

Jimmie

Hello Jimmie

Zinc has about 60% conductivity of alu alloys that are used for
antennas, so the surface resistance will be almost 80% of alu tubing
(same diameter). Of course you have thread that increases the path
length. Given the thread, your net conductivity will be about 40%
(w.r.t. alu).

This will be OK for doing your experiments and to demonstrate that you
can use many materials for antennas. I would recommend you to find
some means to determine VSWR (or refl. coeff.) at 2m (home made
slotted coaxial line, or home brew coupler?).

With kind regards,


Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Without abc, PM will reach me

"John - KD5YI" wrote in message
...
I made a j-pole from galvanized steel. It worked beautifully. When I
replaced it with a commercial antenna I notice very little change in
performance and signal strength. I had hoped my kluge was deficient in
performance compared to the commercial antenna. Didn't seem so. My QTH was
way out in the country side about 20 miles from the nearest repeater.

Just a story for you, no hard data. Sorry.

John

Unless you can tell the differance in a few tenths of a dB, almost any
conductive material will work for simple antennas if the diameter is large
in terms of a wavelength. If the antenna is built the same or vary similar
to a comercial antenna, you usually don't notice any differance.

Lots of money is spent on the comercial stuff for little or no improvement.
Problem for many is buying the materials. If you only need a small ammount
of material , you often have to buy a lot.
Then not everyone has the machinery to do the building.

On 3/20/2011 5:14 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"John - wrote in message
...
I made a j-pole from galvanized steel. It worked beautifully. When I
replaced it with a commercial antenna I notice very little change in
performance and signal strength. I had hoped my kluge was deficient in
performance compared to the commercial antenna. Didn't seem so. My QTH was
way out in the country side about 20 miles from the nearest repeater.

Just a story for you, no hard data. Sorry.

John

Unless you can tell the differance in a few tenths of a dB, almost any
conductive material will work for simple antennas if the diameter is large
in terms of a wavelength. If the antenna is built the same or vary similar
to a comercial antenna, you usually don't notice any differance.

Of course. My response is aimed at the OP's subject line. I'm trying to
be encouraging.

Lots of money is spent on the comercial stuff for little or no improvement.
Problem for many is buying the materials. If you only need a small ammount
of material , you often have to buy a lot.
Then not everyone has the machinery to do the building.

I bought a long piece of chain link fence top rail for the mast and a
piece of conduit for the 1/4 wave element. I used a hacksaw and a drill
to do the machining. I used automobile hose clamps to connect the
transmission line to the kluge. It worked well for about 10 years until
high winds bent the mast (chain link fence top rail is not that stiff).

On 3/20/2011 5:11 PM, Wimpie wrote:
On 20 mar, 21:09, wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:59 pm, wrote:



On 19 mar, 22:25, wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.

Jimmie

Hello Jimmie

Zinc has about 60% conductivity of alu alloys that are used for
antennas, so the surface resistance will be almost 80% of alu tubing
(same diameter). Of course you have thread that increases the path
length. Given the thread, your net conductivity will be about 40%
(w.r.t. alu).

This will be OK for doing your experiments and to demonstrate that you
can use many materials for antennas. I would recommend you to find
some means to determine VSWR (or refl. coeff.) at 2m (home made
slotted coaxial line, or home brew coupler?).

With kind regards,


Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Without abc, PM will reach me

Here is one the OP can build:

http://www.qsl.net/xq2fod/Electron/swr/swr.html

On 21 mar, 00:42, John - KD5YI wrote:
On 3/20/2011 5:11 PM, Wimpie wrote:



On 20 mar, 21:09, *wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:59 pm, *wrote:

On 19 mar, 22:25, *wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice..
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. *Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate *that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll *try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.

Jimmie

Hello Jimmie

Zinc has about 60% conductivity of alu alloys that are used for
antennas, so the surface resistance will be almost 80% of alu tubing
(same diameter). *Of course you have thread that increases the path
length. Given the thread, your net conductivity will be about 40%
(w.r.t. alu).

This will be OK for doing your experiments and to demonstrate that you
can use many materials for antennas. I would recommend you to find
some means to determine VSWR (or refl. coeff.) at 2m (home made
slotted coaxial line, or home brew coupler?).

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Without abc, PM will reach me

Here is one the OP can build:

http://www.qsl.net/xq2fod/Electron/swr/swr.html

Hello John,

I made (and still use) same type of wheatstone bridge refl. coeff.
meter with BAT15 diodes (so only low power) and 0805 SMD. Instead of a
moving coil indicator I used a 10 MOhm DVM (to get better linearity at
low power input).

Such a simple device is very useful. Only limitation is that you can't
have it in between during normal operation as you have 6 dB insertion
loss.


Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl

On 3/21/2011 7:06 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 21 mar, 00:42, John - wrote:
On 3/20/2011 5:11 PM, Wimpie wrote:



On 20 mar, 21:09, wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:59 pm, wrote:

On 19 mar, 22:25, wrote:

I was palnning on building a 2M Yagi this weekend and was wondering if
my available bill of materials would have a significant effect on
normal design parameters. The plan is to use 3/4 inch EMT conduit for
the boom and 3/8 inch all-thread for the elements. My concern was that
the threads could change the design frequency.

JImmie

Hello Jimmie,

I think it will be OK, but if you want to be 100% sure, make a dipole
of same thickness tubing and one from the threaded material of choice.
If results are same, you can use it without dimension scaling. Are
you using galvanized or alu material?

If required, apply some corrosion protection.

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
.

Galvanized, The pupose was to demostrate that materials can often be
adlib and still have a useable antenna. Maybe this one will not last
30 years before it corrodes away but probably 5 or 6. Also I want to
demonstrate the value of using a jig when building many antennas all
made the same. I have tried the test you mention on 10 meters before
replacing a vertical mounted on my truck. Changing materials didn't
seem to make much difference. WIll try the same for 2M but I dont
have an SWR meter for 2M at this time.. Was hopng someone in the group
might think this interesing enough to try.

Jimmie

Hello Jimmie

Zinc has about 60% conductivity of alu alloys that are used for
antennas, so the surface resistance will be almost 80% of alu tubing
(same diameter). Of course you have thread that increases the path
length. Given the thread, your net conductivity will be about 40%
(w.r.t. alu).

This will be OK for doing your experiments and to demonstrate that you
can use many materials for antennas. I would recommend you to find
some means to determine VSWR (or refl. coeff.) at 2m (home made
slotted coaxial line, or home brew coupler?).

With kind regards,

Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Without abc, PM will reach me

Here is one the OP can build:

http://www.qsl.net/xq2fod/Electron/swr/swr.html

Hello John,

I made (and still use) same type of wheatstone bridge refl. coeff.
meter with BAT15 diodes (so only low power) and 0805 SMD. Instead of a
moving coil indicator I used a 10 MOhm DVM (to get better linearity at
low power input).

That's a great idea. I wish I had thought of that.

John