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Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Sal M. O'Nella" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... "tom" wrote in message . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom K0TAR Is this guy the ghost of Allen Funt? He has set up such an improbable situation with his nonsense that we are unable to grasp it, so we suspend disbelief. Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antena and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like te above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. Too difficult? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like the above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. Too difficult? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Sal M. O'Nella" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... "tom" wrote in message . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom K0TAR Is this guy the ghost of Allen Funt? He has set up such an improbable situation with his nonsense that we are unable to grasp it, so we suspend disbelief. Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antena and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like te above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. Too difficult? S* Apparently too difficult for you! |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: All the links I quote are wrote by "people who have spent decades building and using antennas in the real world, people ranging in education from knowledgable hobbyiests to degreed engineers and scientists." Are you one of them? S* Am I one of what? If you mean what are MY qualifications to call you a babbling idiot, I have been building and using antennas for about 50 years and have a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. How long have you been building and using antennas and what degrees do you have? Instead writting the "babbling idiot" write a long article on antennas without ground. You wrote: "Only end fed monopoles need radials". Do you mean that "Only end fed monopoles need ground"? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. When you have a vertical 1/4 wavelength antenna with a vertical 1/4 wavelength "counterpoise" below it, you don't have a monopole, you have a dipole. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like the above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. It can be horizontal or vertical or anywhere in between. Too difficult? Too difficult for you. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "Rob" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax? That is not a correct way to feed a dipole! There must be a balun between the coax and the dipole. The balun only improve the monopole . The only one leg is red (radiate): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Di...ebandbalun.png The color someone used in an illustrative diagram has no significance in the operation of the antenna. Both the halves of the dipole are involved in the radiation. If it is feed by the two wires transmission line: http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Sections/Antennas.htm http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Section...le-Ladder2.gif S* Did you notice there is no connection to ground required? Jimp wrote: "Only end fed monopoles need radials". Marconi wrote that all antennas needs ground. It is obvious that "the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax" is the Marconi antenna. It is not the dipole antenna. The rest of your antennas (small power) can have the ground from AC supply or chassis. S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "Rob" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax? That is not a correct way to feed a dipole! There must be a balun between the coax and the dipole. The balun only improve the monopole . The only one leg is red (radiate): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Di...ebandbalun.png The color someone used in an illustrative diagram has no significance in the operation of the antenna. Both the halves of the dipole are involved in the radiation. If it is feed by the two wires transmission line: http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Sections/Antennas.htm http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Section...le-Ladder2.gif S* Did you notice there is no connection to ground required? Jimp wrote: "Only end fed monopoles need radials". Marconi wrote that all antennas needs ground. Marconi was wrong. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. When you have a vertical 1/4 wavelength antenna with a vertical 1/4 wavelength "counterpoise" below it, you don't have a monopole, you have a dipole. The real dipole need the ladder line (the two wires). The coax shield is connected to the ground. You should write "dipole". In NASA their dipole and your"dipole" are the quite different things. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like the above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. It can be horizontal or vertical or anywhere in between. So you grasp it. S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. When you have a vertical 1/4 wavelength antenna with a vertical 1/4 wavelength "counterpoise" below it, you don't have a monopole, you have a dipole. The real dipole need the ladder line (the two wires). No. You can use a coax and a balun. The coax shield is connected to the ground. Why? You should write "dipole". In NASA their dipole and your"dipole" are the quite different things. What do you mean with "In NASA"? The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like the above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. It can be horizontal or vertical or anywhere in between. So you grasp it. I do. But you don't seem to. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "Rob" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax? That is not a correct way to feed a dipole! There must be a balun between the coax and the dipole. The balun only improve the monopole . The only one leg is red (radiate): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Di...ebandbalun.png The color someone used in an illustrative diagram has no significance in the operation of the antenna. Both the halves of the dipole are involved in the radiation. If it is feed by the two wires transmission line: http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Sections/Antennas.htm http://www.deltadx.net/ABCDx/Section...le-Ladder2.gif S* Did you notice there is no connection to ground required? Jimp wrote: "Only end fed monopoles need radials". Marconi wrote that all antennas needs ground. Jimp has read modern literature and is correct while Marconi was wrong. It is obvious that "the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax" is the Marconi antenna. No, it is not "obvious", it is nonsense to call a dipole a Marconi antenna. A Marconi antenna by definition is an end fed monopole one quarter wavelength high. It is not the dipole antenna. A dipole most certainly IS a dipole. The rest of your antennas (small power) can have the ground from AC supply or chassis. Babbling nonsense. You are an ignorant, ineducable idiot. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: All the links I quote are wrote by "people who have spent decades building and using antennas in the real world, people ranging in education from knowledgable hobbyiests to degreed engineers and scientists." Are you one of them? S* Am I one of what? If you mean what are MY qualifications to call you a babbling idiot, I have been building and using antennas for about 50 years and have a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. How long have you been building and using antennas and what degrees do you have? Instead writting the "babbling idiot" write a long article on antennas without ground. Why as there already exists thousands and thousands of such literature references? Howver you are too much of an ignorant, ineducable, babbling idiot to be able to read any of them and understand them. You were totally unable to understand something as simple as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna and started babbling about the colors on the graphics showing you haven't a clue what the article was actually saying. You wrote: "Only end fed monopoles need radials". Do you mean that "Only end fed monopoles need ground"? No, I meant what I said. You, however, are too much of an ignorant, ineducable, babbling idiot to be able to understand it. To be precise, only end fed monopoles need a counterpoise. The counterpoise can consist of either radials, a large conductive area fabricated for the purpose, or the Earth itself IF the surface conductivity is high enough. The words "ground", "radial", and "counterpoise" in relation to antennas are three diffent things with three different meanings but you are too much of an ignorant, ineducable, babbling idiot to be to understand that. A quarter wave, end fed vertical monopole with a set of radials does NOT need a connection to ground. The radials serve as the counterpoise. As you are an ignorant, ineducable, babbling idiot you will not understand any of this and will reply with babbling nonsense. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Sal M. O'Nella" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... "tom" wrote in message . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom K0TAR Is this guy the ghost of Allen Funt? He has set up such an improbable situation with his nonsense that we are unable to grasp it, so we suspend disbelief. Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antena and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. No, it can not as by definition a Marconi antenna is a quarter wave, end fed vertical fed against ground. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like te above set. No, it is not as the generally used meaning of the word "dipole" without any qualifiers is a half wave, center fed antenna of any orientation but MOST are oriented horizontally. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. The difference is one is a quarter wave long and end fed and the other is a half wave long and center fed. Too difficult? Yes, that is too difficult for an ignorant, ineducable, idiot like you to understand. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like the above set. The only difference is that the second set is horizontal. Too difficult? S* The difference is one is a quarter wave length long and end fed and the other is a half wave length long and center fed. You are to much of an ignorant, ineducable, idiot to be able to understand the difference. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom "Try to grasp that: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antenna and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. When you have a vertical 1/4 wavelength antenna with a vertical 1/4 wavelength "counterpoise" below it, you don't have a monopole, you have a dipole. The real dipole need the ladder line (the two wires). The coax shield is connected to the ground. Ignorant babble of an ineducable idiot. It is all explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna but you are too stupid to be able to understand even the pictures. You should write "dipole". In NASA their dipole and your"dipole" are the quite different things. Word salad babble with no meaning as to be expected from an idiot. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message ... snip Marconi wrote that all antennas needs ground. It is obvious that "the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to the shield of a coax" is the Marconi antenna. It is not the dipole antenna. The rest of your antennas (small power) can have the ground from AC supply or chassis. S* Brilliant! I wish there were some way to preserve these teachings. Maybe I can take a course and learn how to write. Then, if I had a pencil, I could copy it all down, if I had some paper. Would that work? "Sal" (KD6VKW) |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
somebody wrote in message ... snip We (the group excluding Szczepan) have some good discussions. Szczepan can be amusing in the views he puts forward. I can't work out whether he is trying to tease us or really is confused. Which is why I made my reference to Allen Funt of "Candid Camera." Funt created preposterous situations and yet people tried their darndest to make something real out of it. I recall a car with no engine whose driver rolled it downhill into a service station. The driver, Funt's attractive co-host, insisted that she had driven around town all day and wanted the mechanic to check the car because it didn't seem to have much power. In a perfect world, when the mechanic popped the hood, he would have laughed and the "bit" would be spoiled. But no! He tried eight ways to explain to her that she COULDN'T have been driving around town. She just sweetly continued the hoax as several other mechanics came over to check out the action. Classic! Szczepan is that car with no engine and we are those mechanics. :-) 73, "Sal" |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Gosh Joel -- see what you started!! :-)
Irv VE6BP "Joel365" wrote in message ... I have a dipole with 134 feet of 20 gauge insulated copper wire. What would happen if I wanted to replace one leg (67 feet) with 18 gauge copper clad insulated steel wire but chose to keep the other leg with the 20 gauge wire? Tks, Joel -- Joel365 |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... You were totally unable to understand something as simple as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna "The quarter wavemonopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one end, that behaves as a dipole antenna." Are you able to understand something as simple as the above? To be precise, only end fed monopoles need a counterpoise. The radials serve as the counterpoise. The Author in Wiki describes the "dipole" used by radio-amateurs. Such dipole is simply "The quarter wavemonopole antenna". S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antena and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like te above set. No, it is not as the generally used meaning of the word "dipole" without any qualifiers is a half wave, center fed antenna Radio-amateurs have "dipole" where one leg is end fed and the other is connected to the grounded shield of the coax. You should know that the true dipole is directional. Are your "dipoles" directional? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: You should write "dipole". In NASA their dipole and your"dipole" are the quite different things. What do you mean with "In NASA"? "The Hertzian dipole Consider two small spherical conductors connected by a wire. Suppose that electric charge flows periodically back and forth between the spheres." In " NASA" antennas (eg. phase radars) the each "sphere" is fed from special feeder. If are the two sphere we have a dipole (Hertzian dipole). In Marconi antenna is only one "sphere". It is the monopole. Do you have exactly the same voltages in the both ends of your "dipole"? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Jeff" napisal w wiadomosci ... On 08/07/2012 10:23, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... You were totally unable to understand something as simple as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna "The quarter wavemonopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one end, that behaves as a dipole antenna." Are you able to understand something as simple as the above? To be precise, only end fed monopoles need a counterpoise. The radials serve as the counterpoise. The Author in Wiki describes the "dipole" used by radio-amateurs. Such dipole is simply "The quarter wavemonopole antenna". S* No It doesn't, it describes a monopole as as dipole using the image in the ground as the second leg!! But what is does show is a dipole with one arm connected to the braid of a coax!!!! Which of course you ignored!!!!! The braid = the shield. The braid and the arm are together the counterpoise. Have you the same voltages on the braid and on the coax "live" wire? If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The braid = the shield. The braid and the arm are together the counterpoise. Have you the same voltages on the braid and on the coax "live" wire? If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* You seem to think that the braid of the coax is a ground and the voltage there is always zero. But that is not how things work. A length of cable, whatever cable it is, is not a short circuit on HF. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
... If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* Hello Szczepan. The monopole and dipole aerials are definitely two different aerials and it would be wrong to call a monopole a dipole. It seems that you need some help to understand aerials. The ARRL (http://www.arrl.org/shop/Antennas/ ) and RSGB (http://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Onl...tennas_37.html) both sell helpful books on aerials. Kindest regards, Ian. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... "Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message ... If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* Hello Szczepan. The monopole and dipole aerials are definitely two different aerials and it would be wrong to call a monopole a dipole. Monopole antenna: "One side of the antenna feedline is attached to the lower end of the monopole, and the other side is attached to the ground plane, which is often the Earth." Dipole antenna: "A dipole antenna is a straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength from end to end and connected at the center to a radio-frequency (RF) feed line. This antenna, also called a doublet, is one of the simplest types of antenna, and constitutes the main RF radiating and receiving element in various sophisticated types of antennas. The dipole is inherently a balanced antenna, because it is bilaterally symmetrical. Ideally, a dipole antenna is fed with a balanced, parallel-wire RF transmission line" The Hertz dipole was symmetrical. The radio-amateurs use the name "dipole" for a monopole. It is not wrong because they do not use the name monopole. S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
... "Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... "Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message ... If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* Hello Szczepan. The monopole and dipole aerials are definitely two different aerials and it would be wrong to call a monopole a dipole. Monopole antenna: "One side of the antenna feedline is attached to the lower end of the monopole, and the other side is attached to the ground plane, which is often the Earth." Dipole antenna: "A dipole antenna is a straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength from end to end and connected at the center to a radio-frequency (RF) feed line. This antenna, also called a doublet, is one of the simplest types of antenna, and constitutes the main RF radiating and receiving element in various sophisticated types of antennas. The dipole is inherently a balanced antenna, because it is bilaterally symmetrical. Ideally, a dipole antenna is fed with a balanced, parallel-wire RF transmission line" The Hertz dipole was symmetrical. The radio-amateurs use the name "dipole" for a monopole. It is not wrong because they do not use the name monopole. S* Hello Szczepan. Your definition of a dipole is wrong. A dipole is not a "straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength ". |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... You were totally unable to understand something as simple as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna "The quarter wavemonopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one end, that behaves as a dipole antenna." Are you able to understand something as simple as the above? Yes, and obviously you can not. What it means is the total FIELD is the same as if the antenna were a dipole. Nothing more, nothing less. To be precise, only end fed monopoles need a counterpoise. The radials serve as the counterpoise. The Author in Wiki describes the "dipole" used by radio-amateurs. Such dipole is simply "The quarter wavemonopole antenna". A dipole is a dipole is a dipole and it doesn't matter who is using it. A dipole is NOT "The quarter wavemonopole antenna". A dipole is a dipole is a dipole. You STILL can not understand the difference and you never will as you are an ineducable idiot. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Jeff" napisal w wiadomosci ... On 08/07/2012 10:23, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... You were totally unable to understand something as simple as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna "The quarter wavemonopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one end, that behaves as a dipole antenna." Are you able to understand something as simple as the above? To be precise, only end fed monopoles need a counterpoise. The radials serve as the counterpoise. The Author in Wiki describes the "dipole" used by radio-amateurs. Such dipole is simply "The quarter wavemonopole antenna". S* No It doesn't, it describes a monopole as as dipole using the image in the ground as the second leg!! But what is does show is a dipole with one arm connected to the braid of a coax!!!! Which of course you ignored!!!!! The braid = the shield. No ****? What a stroke of irrelevant brilliance. The braid and the arm are together the counterpoise. No, they are not, you babbling idiot. Have you the same voltages on the braid and on the coax "live" wire? Not without a ballancing device of some sort. If not, than you heve the monopole. What an utter idiot; a monopole has one physical element while a dipole has two physical elements. That is the meaning of the prefixes "mono", which means one, and "di", which means two. You are a babbling, ineducable, idiot. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Ian" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... "Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message ... If not, than you heve the monopole. But it is nothing wrong if in your community it is call "dipole". S* Hello Szczepan. The monopole and dipole aerials are definitely two different aerials and it would be wrong to call a monopole a dipole. Monopole antenna: "One side of the antenna feedline is attached to the lower end of the monopole, and the other side is attached to the ground plane, which is often the Earth." Yes, and there in ONE element. Dipole antenna: "A dipole antenna is a straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength from end to end and connected at the center to a radio-frequency (RF) feed line. This antenna, also called a doublet, is one of the simplest types of antenna, and constitutes the main RF radiating and receiving element in various sophisticated types of antennas. The dipole is inherently a balanced antenna, because it is bilaterally symmetrical. Ideally, a dipole antenna is fed with a balanced, parallel-wire RF transmission line" Yes, and there are TWO elements. The Hertz dipole was symmetrical. A dipole is symmetrical by definition, idiot. The radio-amateurs use the name "dipole" for a monopole. No, they do not, you babbling, ineducable idiot. It is not wrong because they do not use the name monopole. It is nonsense because radio amateurs do NOT call a monopole a dipole. You are a babbling, ineducable idiot. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: The Marconi antenna is vertical. It consists of an antena and the counterpoise. The counterpoise can be in form of the vertical wire. So such monopole is vertical. The "dipole" antenna with the coax and without the balun is exactly like te above set. No, it is not as the generally used meaning of the word "dipole" without any qualifiers is a half wave, center fed antenna Radio-amateurs have "dipole" where one leg is end fed and the other is connected to the grounded shield of the coax. A dipole is fed with a balancing device of some sort between the transmission line and the antenna of the transmission line is unbalanced. Than is how EVERYONE does it, not just radio amateurs. And the shield of the coax is often NOT grounded nor is it required to be grounded for the antenna to operate properly. If it is grounded, it is for OTHER reasons than antenna operation such as electrical safety or the elimination of static build up, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the antenna operationg as an antenna. You should know that the true dipole is directional. Are your "dipoles" directional? Dipoles are not directional, they are bidirectional in the plane of the antenna and ALL dipoles are bidirectional in the plane of the antenna. You are a babbling, ineducable, idiot. How many antennas have you built in your life time? |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: You should write "dipole". In NASA their dipole and your"dipole" are the quite different things. What do you mean with "In NASA"? "The Hertzian dipole Consider two small spherical conductors connected by a wire. Suppose that electric charge flows periodically back and forth between the spheres." In " NASA" antennas (eg. phase radars) the each "sphere" is fed from special feeder. Phased radars don't use spheres for antennas. This is just babbling nonsense. If are the two sphere we have a dipole (Hertzian dipole). No, we don't; you are an idiot. In Marconi antenna is only one "sphere". It is the monopole. Do you have exactly the same voltages in the both ends of your "dipole"? S* This is all just babbling nonsense with no relation to the real world. You are a babbling, ineducable, idiot. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
On 7/6/2012 11:44 PM, Sal M. O'Nella wrote:
wrote in message . net... On 7/6/2012 3:46 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci Do you agree that such "dipole" is the monopole? S* Absolutely not. tom K0TAR Is this guy the ghost of Allen Funt? He has set up such an improbable situation with his nonsense that we are unable to grasp it, so we suspend disbelief. "Sal" Allen Funt was intelligent. And funny. SB is neither. All he can do is google, copy URLs or parts of articles, then paste. Zero brain activity involved. tom K0TAR |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
On 7/8/2012 4:31 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan wrote: You should know that the true dipole is directional. Are your "dipoles" directional? Everything build-able is directional, to a greater or lesser degree, when the pattern is viewed in 3 dimensions. tom K0TAR |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
tom wrote:
On 7/8/2012 4:31 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan wrote: You should know that the true dipole is directional. Are your "dipoles" directional? Everything build-able is directional, to a greater or lesser degree, when the pattern is viewed in 3 dimensions. tom K0TAR You want this moron to think in three dimensions when he can't tell the difference between 1 and 2 (monopole/dipole)? |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "The Hertzian dipole Consider two small spherical conductors connected by a wire. Suppose that electric charge flows periodically back and forth between the spheres." In " NASA" antennas (eg. phase radars) the each "sphere" is fed from special feeder. Phased radars don't use spheres for antennas. Hertz was using the spheres or plates. They both were the ends of the open circuit. The end can be without any "hat". If are the two sphere we have a dipole (Hertzian dipole). In Marconi antenna is only one "sphere". It is the monopole. Do you have exactly the same voltages in the both ends of your "dipole"? S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: The braid and the arm are together the counterpoise. No, they are not, you babbling idiot. Have you the same voltages on the braid and on the coax "live" wire? Not without a ballancing device of some sort. Are the same voltages on the counterpoise and on the arm? If not, than you heve the monopole. What an utter idiot; a monopole has one physical element while a dipole has two physical elements. Monopole have always the two elements: the antenna and the counterpoise. That is the meaning of the prefixes "mono", which means one, and "di", which means two. So monopole has the one pole. The end of the counterpoise is not the pole. In your "dipole" the counterpoise is in the form of one elevated radial. S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Monopole antenna: "One side of the antenna feedline is attached to the lower end of the monopole, and the other side is attached to the ground plane, which is often the Earth." Yes, and there in ONE element. Dipole antenna: "A dipole antenna is a straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength from end to end and connected at the center to a radio-frequency (RF) feed line. This antenna, also called a doublet, is one of the simplest types of antenna, and constitutes the main RF radiating and receiving element in various sophisticated types of antennas. The dipole is inherently a balanced antenna, because it is bilaterally symmetrical. Ideally, a dipole antenna is fed with a balanced, parallel-wire RF transmission line" Yes, and there are TWO elements. The Hertz dipole was symmetrical. A dipole is symmetrical by definition, idiot. The "dipole" where one element is connected to "live" wire and the second to a "ground" is the monopole. Yours "dipoles" are not symmetrical (electrically0. They are symmetrical mechanically. S* |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The "dipole" where one element is connected to "live" wire and the second to a "ground" is the monopole. It is your misunderstanding that: 1. amateurs always connect coax directly to a dipole. they don't. those that are in the know will use a balun. 2. the braid of the coax is "ground". this is not true. there will be voltage at the braid of the coax at the antenna end when a balun is not used. |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
In message , Rob
writes Szczepan Bialek wrote: The "dipole" where one element is connected to "live" wire and the second to a "ground" is the monopole. It is your misunderstanding that: 1. amateurs always connect coax directly to a dipole. they don't. those that are in the know will use a balun. In the past, many amateurs did connect coax directly to a dipole. The reason is that - on most occasions - it worked perfectly well, and they 'got away with it'. It was only when problems occurred (interference to TV, radio, Hi-Fi etc) that much thought was given to the need for a balun. In modern times, there is a lot more opportunity for amateurs to interfere with - and suffer interference from - all kinds of domestic equipment, and the use of a balun (or twin feeder) has more-or-less become an absolute necessity. 2. the braid of the coax is "ground". this is not true. there will be voltage at the braid of the coax at the antenna end when a balun is not used. Szczepan is obviously making the fundamental mistake of thinking that, because the coax screen is grounded at the transmitter end (or at least connected to the chassis of the transmitter), it is therefore at zero RF potential - and that it is still at RF potential at the far (antenna) end, where it is connected directly to the 'other' leg of the dipole. This is wrong. He is then assuming that if the coax screen is at zero RF potential where it is connected to the other leg of the dipole, then the other leg of the dipole is also at zero RF potential (and doesn't radiate). This is wrong. He is therefore concluding that as both the coax screen and the other leg of the dipole are at zero RF potential, the only part of the antenna system that is 'RF live' is the leg of the dipole which is connected to the inner conductor of the coax - which is what happens with a monopole. As a result, he is then claiming that a dipole is really only a monopole. This is wrong. However, I'm still convinced that Szczepan knows far more about radio than he appears to, and is cunningly trying to get us to explain phenomena which maybe we really don't know as much about as we like to think we do! -- Ian |
Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Monopole antenna: "One side of the antenna feedline is attached to the lower end of the monopole, and the other side is attached to the ground plane, which is often the Earth." Yes, and there in ONE element. Dipole antenna: "A dipole antenna is a straight electrical conductor measuring 1/2 wavelength from end to end and connected at the center to a radio-frequency (RF) feed line. This antenna, also called a doublet, is one of the simplest types of antenna, and constitutes the main RF radiating and receiving element in various sophisticated types of antennas. The dipole is inherently a balanced antenna, because it is bilaterally symmetrical. Ideally, a dipole antenna is fed with a balanced, parallel-wire RF transmission line" Yes, and there are TWO elements. The Hertz dipole was symmetrical. A dipole is symmetrical by definition, idiot. The "dipole" where one element is connected to "live" wire and the second to a "ground" is the monopole. The transmission line used to connect to the antenna has absolutely nothing to do with what kind of antenna a particular antenna is. Transmission lines and antennas are two separate things. You are a babbling, ineducable idiot. Yours "dipoles" are not symmetrical (electrically0. They are symmetrical mechanically. ALL of my dipoles ARE electrically symmetrical as they are fed either with balanced transmission line or there is a balancing device between the transmission line and the antenna. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? |
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