UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

J. C. Mc Laughlin wrote:
Dear Rob: That is amazing. Very forward thinking. However, it seems to
use a lot of copper, some of which is latent waiting to be used. On the
other hand, the cost of running the 3 phase cable underground probably is
much more than the cost of the cable.

I would not be surprised if this system would be abandoned.
The operating companies of the electric grid have been changed from
state-owned into private companies, and we are already seeing the
deterioration resulting from such changes. This combined with the
high copper prices of today could surely mean that new connections
will be made single-phase.

In the North American scheme, most HV and LV cables are "in the air." This
tends to minimize the cost of running the cable and, too often, advantage is
taken of air-cooling to use what I believe to be wire that is too small.

We consider such systems ugly and unsafe. Even HV cables are sometimes
run underground, although this costs a lot of money. It is mainly done
in cases where residential areas have expanded to places where HV overhead
cables already existed.

Each of the disclosed systems has advantages and costs. It is fascinating
to see how different systems value the costs.

I think an important difference is "who is the decisionmaker".
Commercial companies tend to look only at costs, state-owned companies
tend to look more at environmental issues.

Thank you for expanding my knowledge. One wonders if you are a radio
amateur. 73, Mac N8TT

Yes I am, but I am not very active and only on VHF/UHF.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Dear Rob: It certainly seems that you have well described the
considerations.

Our houses tend to be farther apart, and low cost wins over potential
ugliness. Lack of safety is not believed. An earthed wire is run above the
HV 3-phase and does a good job of providing a low impedance path for
lighting. One side of the HV to LV transformer is earthed as well as the
center tap of the secondary (Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the
service entrance as is one end of the green wire running unimpeded to every
human touchable conductor. Additionally, the house wiring is run at half
the voltage common in Europe. Plugs and receptacles are standardized, which
makes almost certain the appliances are properly connected. (In the UK it
appears that appliances are sold without a plug and rely on the consumer to
do the right thing.)

You have so well said, in effect, that every group of people have a
different set of values that they place on things. If the money is
available, the system in the Netherlands is invisible, flexible (with
3-phase ready when needed), and with the use of the equivalence of a green
wire only diminished in safety from the NA system by using twice the
voltage.

Indeed, if I were planning the electrical distribution system for a research
laboratory, I would seriously consider using the Netherland scheme with half
the voltage.

Afraid VHF will not reach to the Netherlands. Warm regards and thanks,
Mac N8TT

"Rob" wrote in message ...

J. C. Mc Laughlin wrote:
Dear Rob: That is amazing. Very forward thinking. However, it seems to
use a lot of copper, some of which is latent waiting to be used. On the
other hand, the cost of running the 3 phase cable underground probably is
much more than the cost of the cable.

I would not be surprised if this system would be abandoned.
The operating companies of the electric grid have been changed from
state-owned into private companies, and we are already seeing the
deterioration resulting from such changes. This combined with the
high copper prices of today could surely mean that new connections
will be made single-phase.

In the North American scheme, most HV and LV cables are "in the air."
This
tends to minimize the cost of running the cable and, too often, advantage
is
taken of air-cooling to use what I believe to be wire that is too small.

We consider such systems ugly and unsafe. Even HV cables are sometimes
run underground, although this costs a lot of money. It is mainly done
in cases where residential areas have expanded to places where HV overhead
cables already existed.

Each of the disclosed systems has advantages and costs. It is fascinating
to see how different systems value the costs.

I think an important difference is "who is the decisionmaker".
Commercial companies tend to look only at costs, state-owned companies
tend to look more at environmental issues.

Thank you for expanding my knowledge. One wonders if you are a radio
amateur. 73, Mac N8TT

Yes I am, but I am not very active and only on VHF/UHF.


J. C. Mc Laughlin
Michigan U.S.A.
Home:

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Jeff wrote:
Plugs and
receptacles are standardized, which makes almost certain the appliances
are properly connected. (In the UK it appears that appliances are sold
without a plug and rely on the consumer to do the right thing.)


Not so, it has been illegal to sell mains devices without an attached
plug for many years now in the UK. There is only 1 type of plug,
(excluding shavers sockets which are transformer isolated), which is
non-reversible and always has the provision for an earth (Not always
used with double insulated devices, but still the pin must be there,
sometimes in plastic). The sockets are shuttered to prevent accidental
'prodding' by little fingers.

Sure, and I think the plugs/sockets in use in the UK and those used
in the remainder of Europe are also much safer than the ones used
in the USA.
The USA types have the tendency to expose live pins when the plug is
partly removed, something that does not happen here.

"half the voltage" also doesn't matter much when the voltage is unsafe
to touch anyway. And it means "double the current" as well, which
increases the problem of overheating of bad contacts.

I'm sure the USA would go for a system like the European when it had
the chance to change. This is something that has been decided in the
past and is not so easy to change later, which is why it remains as it
is.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

Where is such situation?

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

In Poland in the all power AC lines is an exccess of electrons.
The ground is necessary.

The details are such that more electrons is gain in one half of the cycle
than jump off in the second.

What the things are in your country?
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

In Poland is ignorant morons that know nothing about electricity babbling
stupid nonsense.

In the rest of the world it is as described above, i.e. there is no current
flow into ground unless something is broken.

Maybe in Poland everything is broken.


The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

Where is such situation?

When something fails.

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

In Poland in the all power AC lines is an exccess of electrons.
The ground is necessary.

In Poland is ignorant morons that know nothing about electricity babbling
stupid nonsense.

The details are such that more electrons is gain in one half of the cycle
than jump off in the second.

What the things are in your country?

Like all the rest of the world except Poland where nothing works correctly.

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

Where is such situation?

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

In Poland in the all power AC lines is an exccess of electrons.
The ground is necessary.

The details are such that more electrons is gain in one half of the cycle
than jump off in the second.

What the things are in your country?
S*

And what colour is the sky in your world?
--
Ian

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

I did something you are incapable of doing; I looked up the electrical
distribution system in Poland.

The distribution system in Poland is the same as the rest of Europe
and conforms to IEC 60446, which means, you babbling idiot, there is
no current in the ground connection unless there is a fault.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot that knows absolutely
nothing about anything related to electricity.

Eveything you post is stupid, utter, nonsesne.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci
...
In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

Where is such situation?

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it
is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks
and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

In Poland in the all power AC lines is an exccess of electrons.
The ground is necessary.

The details are such that more electrons is gain in one half of the cycle
than jump off in the second.

What the things are in your country?
S*

And what colour is the sky in your world?

It is not easy to describe it.
But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and the
counterpoise.
Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
S*
--
Ian

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .
But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and
the
counterpoise.
Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
S*
Good morning Szczepan.
Oh dear! No, in Poland (and everywhere else for that matter) a dipole does
not consist of a radiator and a counterpoise. An aerial of that description
would not be called a dipole. I said this in a posting back on 8th July.

I shall have to doubt your claim of being "here to learn". It seems to me
that all you intend to do is repeat statements which you believe are true
and which the rest of us know to be false.

Over a period of several months you seem not to have made any progress in
understanding the dipole which is a basic aerial. I suggest that, instead of
wasting your time on this newsgroup, you visit an amateur radio station or
acquire a book on basis aerial theory. As I wrote in my posting of 8th July:
The ARRL (http://www.arrl.org/shop/Antennas/ ) and RSGB
(http://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Onl...tennas_37.html) both
sell helpful books on aerials.

I hope you are able to understand this posting.
Best wishes, Ian.

ps: To the other Ian - yes, S* could be a computer program but I thought the
purpose of the Turing test was to simulate a human being. S* seems incapable
of learning. I wouldn't discount your theory but I also think that S* could
be an elderly person who has poor short term memory or could be a young
person having a (protracted) laugh or could be an alter ego of one of the
people who posts replies. I can't tell which is correct but I am happy to
try to help in a courteous and respectful manner. 73, Ian.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow
into
the ground.

I did something you are incapable of doing; I looked up the electrical
distribution system in Poland.

The distribution system in Poland is the same as the rest of Europe
and conforms to IEC 60446, which means, you babbling idiot, there is
no current in the ground connection unless there is a fault.

Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity of
the voltage on the highly-curved electrode. If the curved electrode is
positive with respect to the flat electrode we say we have a positive
corona, if negative we say we have a negative corona. (See below for more
details.) The physics of positive and negative coronas are strikingly
different. This asymmetry is a result of the great difference in mass
between electrons and positively charged ions, with only the electron having
the ability to undergo a significant degree of ionising inelastic collision
at common temperatures and pressures."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

In a power lines are also the counterpoise:
"Overhead power lines are often equipped with a ground conductor (shield
wire or overhead earth wire). A ground conductor is a conductor that is
usually grounded (earthed) at the top of the supporting structure to
minimize the likelihood of direct lightning strikes to the phase conductors.
The ground wire is also a parallel path with the earth for fault currents in
earthed neutral circuits. Very high-voltage transmission lines may have two
ground conductors."

The only difference between country are the textbooks.
You should know that before the IIWW in the Soviet Union, Germany and US
were quite different phisics.
Now are the same in the whole "free" world but the older books are also
avaiable.
S*
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .
Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity
of the voltage on the highly-curved electrode.
In a power lines are also the counterpoise:
"Overhead power lines are often equipped with a ground conductor (shield
wire or overhead earth wire). A ground conductor is a conductor that is
usually grounded (earthed) at the top of the supporting structure to
minimize the likelihood of direct lightning strikes to the phase
conductors. The ground wire is also a parallel path with the earth for
fault currents in earthed neutral circuits. You should know that before
the IIWW in the Soviet Union, Germany and US were quite different phisics.
Now are the same in the whole "free" world but the older books are also
avaiable.
S*
Hello chaps. I've solved the puzzle of the what S* is. He's an out-of-work
comedy writer.
He says that in Poland they have a power supply that
operates with corona discharge as normal (I assume into the house) and
operates with lightning strikes as the norm.
Of most interest to us all will be S*'s assertion that physics varied from
country to country before WWII. Anyone know (or care to guess) who unified
physics around the world?
It's dull and drizzling here in my part of the UK. That posting from S* made
me smile so it did have a positive use (pun intended).

73 to all, Ian.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:35:00 +0100, Ian wrote:

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .
Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the
polarity of the voltage on the highly-curved electrode.
In a power lines are also the counterpoise:
"Overhead power lines are often equipped with a ground conductor
(shield wire or overhead earth wire). A ground conductor is a conductor
that is usually grounded (earthed) at the top of the supporting
structure to minimize the likelihood of direct lightning strikes to the
phase conductors. The ground wire is also a parallel path with the
earth for fault currents in earthed neutral circuits. You should know
that before the IIWW in the Soviet Union, Germany and US were quite
different phisics.
Now are the same in the whole "free" world but the older books are also
avaiable.
S*
Hello chaps. I've solved the puzzle of the what S* is. He's an
out-of-work comedy writer.
He says that in Poland they have a power supply that
operates with corona discharge as normal (I assume into the house) and
operates with lightning strikes as the norm.
Of most interest to us all will be S*'s assertion that physics varied
from country to country before WWII. Anyone know (or care to guess) who
unified physics around the world?
It's dull and drizzling here in my part of the UK. That posting from S*
made me smile so it did have a positive use (pun intended).

73 to all, Ian.

No, he's just stupid.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

It is not easy to describe it.
But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and the
counterpoise.
Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about antennas or how they work, or for that matter, anything
else.

A dipole is a dipole whether it is used by a Polish amateur or a Tibetan
monk.

You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...

The distribution system in Poland is the same as the rest of Europe
and conforms to IEC 60446, which means, you babbling idiot, there is
no current in the ground connection unless there is a fault.

Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity of
the voltage on the highly-curved electrode. If the curved electrode is
positive with respect to the flat electrode we say we have a positive
corona, if negative we say we have a negative corona. (See below for more
details.) The physics of positive and negative coronas are strikingly
different. This asymmetry is a result of the great difference in mass
between electrons and positively charged ions, with only the electron having
the ability to undergo a significant degree of ionising inelastic collision
at common temperatures and pressures."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with electrical distribution systems,
you stupid, babbling, moron.

In a power lines are also the counterpoise:

A counterpoise has absolutely NOTHING to do with electrical distribution
systems, you stupid, babbling, moron.

"Overhead power lines are often equipped with a ground conductor (shield
wire or overhead earth wire). A ground conductor is a conductor that is
usually grounded (earthed) at the top of the supporting structure to
minimize the likelihood of direct lightning strikes to the phase conductors.
The ground wire is also a parallel path with the earth for fault currents in
earthed neutral circuits. Very high-voltage transmission lines may have two
ground conductors."

As you have been told several times, the earth ground in an electrical
distribution system is for safety if something goes wrong or breaks.

On of the things that can go wrong is lightning striking the wires.

The only difference between country are the textbooks.

The difference between the textbooks is the language they are written in.

You should know that before the IIWW in the Soviet Union, Germany and US
were quite different phisics.

No, you babbling moron, the physics was ALWAYS the same; it was the
politics that was different.

Now are the same in the whole "free" world but the older books are also
avaiable.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about antennas or how they work, or how ANYTHING works for that
matter.

You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .
Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity
of the voltage on the highly-curved electrode.

Hello chaps. I've solved the puzzle of the what S* is. He's an
out-of-work comedy writer.
He says that in Poland they have a power supply that
operates with corona discharge as normal (I assume into the house) and
operates with lightning strikes as the norm.

"Outside this region of ionization and conductivity, the charged particles
slowly find their way to an oppositely charged object and are neutralized."

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of the
electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator. You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no pint in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Regards, Ian.

ps: In the Subject line of this thread, who is the "UK earthling"?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Ian" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .
Yes. The leakages are also unsymmetric:
"Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity
of the voltage on the highly-curved electrode.

Hello chaps. I've solved the puzzle of the what S* is. He's an
out-of-work comedy writer.
He says that in Poland they have a power supply that
operates with corona discharge as normal (I assume into the house) and
operates with lightning strikes as the norm.

"Outside this region of ionization and conductivity, the charged particles
slowly find their way to an oppositely charged object and are neutralized."

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of the
electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*

Yet more babbling gibberish from our resident Polish clown who hasn't a
clue what his quoted material actually means.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about antennas or anything else for that matter.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
in any language?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electricity
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator. You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no point in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Regards, Ian.

ps: In the Subject line of this thread, who is the "UK earthling"?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In message , Ian
writes
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
. ..

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator. You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no pint in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Regards, Ian.

ps: In the Subject line of this thread, who is the "UK earthling"?

That is yet further evidence that he is on another world (if not even in
another universe) where the Laws of Physics are quite different from
here. Maybe that's why I was subconsciously prompted to ask him what
colour the sky was in his world.
--
Ian

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci
...
In message , Ian
writes
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator. You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no pint in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Regards, Ian.

ps: In the Subject line of this thread, who is the "UK earthling"?

That is yet further evidence that he is on another world (if not even in
another universe) where the Laws of Physics are quite different from here.

What means "here"?
All the Laws of Physics I "cope and paste" from Wiki. I am in "Wiki's
world".

Maybe that's why I was subconsciously prompted to ask him what colour the
sky was in his world.

You are fluent in English.
Write the color in "here" and I tell you if in the Wilki world is the same.
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

What means "here"?
All the Laws of Physics I "cope and paste" from Wiki. I am in "Wiki's
world".

Maybe that's why I was subconsciously prompted to ask him what colour the
sky was in his world.

You are fluent in English.
Write the color in "here" and I tell you if in the Wilki world is the
same.
S*

Hello chaps. To-day's prize goes to all of you who said that Szczepan didn't
understand what he was putting in his own postings. The prize is 1,000
electrons and you'll find them here *
It's up to you to extract them. :-)
73, Ian.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

What means "here"?

He means here in the real world, which you are not a part of.

All the Laws of Physics I "cope and paste" from Wiki. I am in "Wiki's
world".

No, you are in your own little world.

You have no understanding whatsoever of anything you get from Wiki.

Your post from Wiki are always followed by stupid, ignorant comments that
prove have no understanding whatsoever of anything you quoted.

Maybe that's why I was subconsciously prompted to ask him what colour the
sky was in his world.

You are fluent in English.
Write the color in "here" and I tell you if in the Wilki world is the same.
S*

He is semi-politely telling you that you are in your own little world of
stupidity and ignorance.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .


"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci
...
In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"J. C. Mc Laughlin" napisal w wiadomosci
.. .

An earthed wire is run above the HV 3-phase and does a good job of
providing a low impedance path for lighting. One side of the HV to LV
transformer is earthed as well as the center tap of the secondary
(Neutral). The neutral is again earthed at the service entrance as is
one
end of the green wire running unimpeded to every human touchable
conductor.

Is something flowing in the all earth wires?

If you actually knew anything about electricity, which you don't, you
would know that under normal circumstances there is no current in the
earth ground connection.

In Poland under normal circumstances always is the electrons net flow into
the ground.

The earth ground connection is for safety and current will only flow if
something is wrong.

Where is such situation?

This is also why radios powered by AC are connected to earth ground; it
is
for safety against electrocution if something in the equipment breaks
and
has NOTHING to do with the operation of the radio as a radio.

In Poland in the all power AC lines is an exccess of electrons.
The ground is necessary.

The details are such that more electrons is gain in one half of the cycle
than jump off in the second.

What the things are in your country?
S*

And what colour is the sky in your world?

# It is not easy to describe it.
# But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and
the
# counterpoise.
# Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
# S*

One suggestion is that you talk with some technically competent people in
Poland and describe your definition of dipoles.

Most likely, they will not agree with your definition.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Wayne wrote:


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .


# It is not easy to describe it.
# But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and
the
# counterpoise.
# Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
# S*

One suggestion is that you talk with some technically competent people in
Poland and describe your definition of dipoles.

Most likely, they will not agree with your definition.

Most likely, there is no one in Poland that would willingly talk to this
babbling idiot.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator.

Air is the "leaky" insulator.
I was many times under the 400kV line and I am still alive.
Is it dangerous in UK.

You probably do not know the difference leakage/breakdown.

You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no point in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Textbooks are for children.
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

# But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and
the
# counterpoise.
# Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
# S*

One suggestion is that you talk with some technically competent people in
Poland and describe your definition of dipoles.

Most likely, they will not agree with your definition.

Somebody wrote: http://cb-wlkp.pl/viewtopic.php?t=584
"
Wyslany: 2009-07-22, 23:36


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instalacja anteny dipolowej sklada sie z:
- anteny - promiennik i przeciwwaga, które sa zbudowane z dwóch
jednakowych przewodów, lub kawalków metalu. Z racji tego, ze oba te elementy
sa identyczne (ksztalt, material, dlugosc), maja takie same parametry - sa
symetryczne.
- przewodu zasilajacego - kabel koncentryczny, w którym sygnal
przesylany jest przez zyle wewnetrzna a powraca oplotem ekranu. Oplot i zyla
wewnetrzna maja inny przekrój i ksztalt, a co za tym idzie maja inne
parametry elektryczne (np. impedancje) - sa niesymetryczne. "


And Bilou wrote: "Imagine the diameter of one half is infinite.
You now have a quarter wave over a ground plane.A well known
case."

As you see in Poland and "here" are the technically UNcompetent
people.

Do you see the difference between the Hertz dipole and the
radioamateur dipole?
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes



--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instalacja anteny dipolowej sklada sie z:
- anteny - promiennik i przeciwwaga, które sa zbudowane z dwóch
jednakowych przewodów, lub kawalków metalu. Z racji tego, ze oba te elementy
sa identyczne (ksztalt, material, dlugosc), maja takie same parametry - sa
symetryczne.
- przewodu zasilajacego - kabel koncentryczny, w którym sygnal
przesylany jest przez zyle wewnetrzna a powraca oplotem ekranu. Oplot i zyla
wewnetrzna maja inny przekrój i ksztalt, a co za tym idzie maja inne
parametry elektryczne (np. impedancje) - sa niesymetryczne. "


Try pasting this into Google Translate.
http://translate.google.com/#
Even allowing for the oddities, it's interesting to see the description.





--
Ian

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:01:26 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
You probably do not know the difference leakage/breakdown.

Leakage (radiation/fields) is photons - breakdown (corona/arcing) is electrons.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instalacja anteny dipolowej sklada sie z:
- anteny - promiennik i przeciwwaga, które sa zbudowane z
dwóch
jednakowych przewodów, lub kawalków metalu. Z racji tego, ze oba te
elementy
sa identyczne (ksztalt, material, dlugosc), maja takie same parametry - sa
symetryczne.
- przewodu zasilajacego - kabel koncentryczny, w którym sygnal
przesylany jest przez zyle wewnetrzna a powraca oplotem ekranu. Oplot i
zyla
wewnetrzna maja inny przekrój i ksztalt, a co za tym idzie maja inne
parametry elektryczne (np. impedancje) - sa niesymetryczne. "



"Installation of a dipole antenna consists of:
- Antenna - radiator and counterweight, which are built from
two
the same wires, or pieces of metal. Because of this, with both elements
are identical (shape, material, length), have the same characteristics - are
symmetrical.
- Power cable - coaxial cable in which the signal
transmitted by wire inner braid and returns the screen. Braid and lived
inner diameter and have a different shape, and thus have different
electrical parameters (eg impedance) - are unbalanced. "

73, Ian (no, the other one).

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

# But in Poland the amateur-radio dipoles consists of the one radiator and
the
# counterpoise.
# Simply speaking it is the Marconi antenna with the one radial.
# S*

One suggestion is that you talk with some technically competent people in
Poland and describe your definition of dipoles.

Most likely, they will not agree with your definition.

Somebody wrote: http://cb-wlkp.pl/viewtopic.php?t=584
"
Wyslany: 2009-07-22, 23:36


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instalacja anteny dipolowej sklada sie z:
- anteny - promiennik i przeciwwaga, kt?re sa zbudowane z dw?ch
jednakowych przewod?w, lub kawalk?w metalu. Z racji tego, ze oba te elementy
sa identyczne (ksztalt, material, dlugosc), maja takie same parametry - sa
symetryczne.
- przewodu zasilajacego - kabel koncentryczny, w kt?rym sygnal
przesylany jest przez zyle wewnetrzna a powraca oplotem ekranu. Oplot i zyla
wewnetrzna maja inny przekr?j i ksztalt, a co za tym idzie maja inne
parametry elektryczne (np. impedancje) - sa niesymetryczne. "


And Bilou wrote: "Imagine the diameter of one half is infinite.
You now have a quarter wave over a ground plane.A well known
case."

As you see in Poland and "here" are the technically UNcompetent
people.

Do you see the difference between the Hertz dipole and the
radioamateur dipole?
S*

Yet more babbling nonsense with no understanding of the text you have
quoted.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about antennas or how they work.

You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Ian" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

As a normal in the all country is leakage. Corona is from time to time.

"Physics, Electricity . the loss of all or part of a useful agent, as of
the electric current that flows through an insulator"

In overhead power supply the air is an insulator.

The both (corona and leakage) are nonsymmetric in AC.
So the ground is the only remedy.
S*
Hello Szczepan.
Neither you nor I would want to be near any "leaky" insulator.

Air is the "leaky" insulator.
I was many times under the 400kV line and I am still alive.
Is it dangerous in UK.

Irrelevant, babbling, nonsense.

You probably do not know the difference leakage/breakdown.

You do not know anything.

You appear
not to understand the definition and meaning of "insulator". Your past
behaviour indicates that there is no point in trying to explain it to you.
All I will suggest is that you try to acquire and read a textbook on the
subject.

Textbooks are for children.
S*

You sound like a babbling, spoiled, little child.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instalacja anteny dipolowej sklada sie z:
- anteny - promiennik i przeciwwaga, które sa zbudowane z
dwóch
jednakowych przewodów, lub kawalków metalu. Z racji tego, ze oba te
elementy
sa identyczne (ksztalt, material, dlugosc), maja takie same parametry -
sa
symetryczne.
- przewodu zasilajacego - kabel koncentryczny, w którym
sygnal
przesylany jest przez zyle wewnetrzna a powraca oplotem ekranu. Oplot i
zyla
wewnetrzna maja inny przekrój i ksztalt, a co za tym idzie maja inne
parametry elektryczne (np. impedancje) - sa niesymetryczne. "



"Installation of a dipole antenna consists of:
- Antenna - radiator and counterweight, which are built from
two
the same wires, or pieces of metal. Because of this, with both elements
are identical (shape, material, length), have the same characteristics -
are
symmetrical.
- Power cable - coaxial cable in which the signal
transmitted by wire inner braid and returns the screen. Braid and lived
inner diameter and have a different shape,

" Braid and lived inner diameter and have a different shape,..."
Should be: " Braid and lived inner wire have a different diameter and shape
...."

and thus have different
electrical parameters (eg impedance) - are unbalanced. "

73, Ian (no, the other one).

S* (always the same)

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...


You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

That fields and the gravity are only in the textbooks (as e sperate
chapters).
They are also in engineering.
In physics is only one field.
Do you thing that in space are the seperate mechanismus?

Do not write that the charge at rest create the electric field and if it
travel it create magnetic field.

The antennas work according to physics law.


Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on
electromagntics
in any language?

Electromagnetism was the hipothese proposed by Maxwell. But Royal Society
discarded it.
Have sense read it?
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...


You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

That fields and the gravity are only in the textbooks (as e sperate
chapters).
They are also in engineering.
In physics is only one field.
Do you thing that in space are the seperate mechanismus?

Do not write that the charge at rest create the electric field and if it
travel it create magnetic field.

The antennas work according to physics law.


Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on
electromagntics
in any language?

Electromagnetism was the hipothese proposed by Maxwell. But Royal Society
discarded it.
Have sense read it?
S*

Everything you just wrote is a babbling pile of nonsensical, meaningless,
gibberish.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about anything.

You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on electromagntics
or even basic electricity in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

Why do you continue to post your stupid nonsense?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

On Jul 18, 2:42*am, Jeff wrote:
*Plugs and
receptacles are standardized, which makes almost certain the appliances
are properly connected. *(In the UK it appears that appliances are sold
without a plug and rely on the consumer to do the right thing.)

Not so, it has been illegal to sell mains devices without an attached
plug for many years now in the UK. There is only 1 type of plug,
(excluding shavers sockets which are transformer isolated), which is
non-reversible and always has the provision for an earth (Not always
used with double insulated devices, but still the pin must be there,
sometimes in plastic). The sockets are shuttered to prevent accidental
'prodding' by little fingers.

Jeff

Not to be a smart ass but weren't a lot of the old British cars
equipped with a positive ground? What's up with that?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In article
,
BillyBobMarley wrote:
Not to be a smart ass but weren't a lot of the old British cars
equipped with a positive ground? What's up with that?

The electrons come out of the negative end of the battery. The Old Brits
were smart. They didn't want the electrons to jump off of the ends of
the cars, so they tied the positive ends of the batteries to the car
chassis. Except for those cars they exported to Poland ;-) .

David, ex-W8EZE

--
David Ryeburn

To send e-mail, change "netz" to "net"

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

BillyBobMarley wrote:
On Jul 18, 2:42Â*am, Jeff wrote:
Â*Plugs and
receptacles are standardized, which makes almost certain the appliances
are properly connected. Â*(In the UK it appears that appliances are sold
without a plug and rely on the consumer to do the right thing.)

Not so, it has been illegal to sell mains devices without an attached
plug for many years now in the UK. There is only 1 type of plug,
(excluding shavers sockets which are transformer isolated), which is
non-reversible and always has the provision for an earth (Not always
used with double insulated devices, but still the pin must be there,
sometimes in plastic). The sockets are shuttered to prevent accidental
'prodding' by little fingers.

Jeff

Not to be a smart ass but weren't a lot of the old British cars
equipped with a positive ground? What's up with that?

I think it had something to do with the cars driving on the left side
of the road...

Either that, or it rains so much in the UK the electrons that would
normally jump up are washed down by all that water so you have to put
the negative side up to capture the electrons...

The fun part of owning one of those cars was watching panic on someone's
face when you got a jump start and hooked the jumper cables up backwards.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

On Friday, July 20, 2012 1:41:11 PM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
In physics is only one field.

Strange - the extremely well respected physics book, "Principles of Optics" written by Born and Wolf talks about the E-field and H-field - Section 1.4.1 "The general electromagnetic plane wave, page 23, 4th edition.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com