On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:08:53 +0000, foxbrain
wrote:

BTW i'm making a project for my own not any kind of homework.

Ok, you're off the hook.

i have one more question : if i wanted to make my device have a bigger
range like 500-1000meters should i put an amplifer before the antenna?
i should change the antenna in to yagi shouldn't i?

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

This should explain how it all works:
http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf
See the calcs on Pg 29.

Claims 500 meters:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/155
At 10mw, this is close to maximum legal. Anything more than that and
you're going to start interfering with wireless weather stations, car
alarms, etc.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

so depending on the equation in :
http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/En...3/oet63rev.pdf
i should make the power the much larger i can but not more than 10mw
and so for the gain , and decrease the E (v/meter)....
thanks

On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP


Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

John S wrote:
On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP


Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

That is wrong, 10mW ERP is what these lowpower devices are allowed
to transmit.

On 7/23/2012 9:12 AM, Rob wrote:
John S wrote:
On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP


Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

That is wrong, 10mW ERP is what these lowpower devices are allowed
to transmit.


If so, then more than 200uV/m is allowed. Do the calculation as Jeff
supplied:

quote
This should explain how it all works:
http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf
See the calcs on Pg 29.
/quote

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:56:41 -0500, John S
wrote:

On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP

Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

Your calculator is correct. My -46dBm is wrong. It was late, I was
multitasking, the phone range, I was tired, etc. Sorry for the
muddle.
+10.8dBm converts to 12 mw.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/dBm_to_mW.htm

Then... I find a 433MHz radio that delivers +20dBm (100mw).
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10153
By my reading of 15.209, that's overpowered unless operating with a
miserable -9dB gain antenna. From the manufacturers web pile at:
http://www.hoperf.com/rf_fsk/
they offer +10, +13, and +20dBm outputs and claim they all meet ETSI
and FCC regs. I dunno about that.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/23/2012 11:21 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:56:41 -0500, John S
wrote:

On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP

Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

Your calculator is correct. My -46dBm is wrong. It was late, I was
multitasking, the phone range, I was tired, etc. Sorry for the
muddle.
+10.8dBm converts to 12 mw.

12 nw is -49 dBm. Why are you still using 12 mw?

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/dBm_to_mW.htm

Then... I find a 433MHz radio that delivers +20dBm (100mw).
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10153
By my reading of 15.209, that's overpowered unless operating with a
miserable -9dB gain antenna.

The antenna would have to have -69 dB gain for 100 mw to radiate 12
NANOwatts.

From the manufacturers web pile at:
http://www.hoperf.com/rf_fsk/
they offer +10, +13, and +20dBm outputs and claim they all meet ETSI
and FCC regs. I dunno about that.


I don't either. This is a question I've had for years.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:53:12 +0000, foxbrain
wrote:

so depending on the equation in :
http://tinyurl.com/c86y6q6
i should make the power the much larger i can but not more than 10mw
and so for the gain , and decrease the E (v/meter)....

Not exactly. When adding a bigger antenna, you will need to decrease
the transmit power to keep the field strength (V/meter) constant.

For example, assume that +12dBm tx power and 0dBm (unity) gain antenna
is the maximum legal. If you replace the unity gain antenna with an
+8dBi gain yagi, you will need to reduce the transmit power down to
+4dBm output to stay withint the maximum field strength requirement.

Note that you can calculate your maximum range if you know the various
numbers.
http://wireless.navas.us/index.php?title=Wi-Fi#Link_Calculations
http://www.terabeam.com/support/calculations/som.php



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:54:01 -0500, John S
wrote:

On 7/23/2012 11:21 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:56:41 -0500, John S
wrote:

On 7/23/2012 1:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:21:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

FCC 15.209
http://louise.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2012/15/209/
200 uv/meter maximum, measured at 3 meters. That works out to about
-46dBm ERP or about 12 milliwatts into a unity gain antenna.

Sorry, brain damage.
The -46dBm should be 10.8dBm ERP

Hmmm... my calculator says P = 12 nanowatts.

Your calculator is correct. My -46dBm is wrong. It was late, I was
multitasking, the phone range, I was tired, etc. Sorry for the
muddle.
+10.8dBm converts to 12 mw.

12 nw is -49 dBm. Why are you still using 12 mw?

The 12mw is correct. The -46dBm was my mistake. It should
have been about +10.8dBm.

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/dBm_to_mW.htm

Then... I find a 433MHz radio that delivers +20dBm (100mw).
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10153
By my reading of 15.209, that's overpowered unless operating with a
miserable -9dB gain antenna.

The antenna would have to have -69 dB gain for 100 mw to radiate 12
NANOwatts.

Nope. Use 12 milliwatts or 10.8dBm please. Loose the -46/49dBm.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558