On 3/4/2015 5:11 AM, Brian Morrison wrote:
On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 05:50:02 -0500
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 3/4/2015 2:29 AM, Jeff wrote:

Coax can NEVER be spliced without causing a huge impedance
mismatch at the point of the splice. This is not 60hz or DC. But
any ham with even a minor bit of technical knowledge should
understand this.


We are talking about 200kHz here not 200MHz!! Use could join the
coax with a bit of choc-block at that frequency and not see any
significant performance degradation.

Jeff


It doesn't matter if it's 200kHz. The problem remains.

It depends what you mean by 'problem'.


And yes, there WOULD be s"significant performance degradation" if he
used a bit of choc-block.

That is only true if the discontinuity is a significant fraction of a
wavelength, 200kHz is about a 1.5km wavelength, in coax that would be
about 1km with typical velocity factors. A choc block is about 10mm
long, so it is 1/100,000th of a wavelength. I would not expect any major
problem but it could be used to experiment and cleaned up later if
necessary.


But if you understood ANYTHING about transmission lines, you wouldn't
make such a stupid statement.


Actually it's because Jeff understands about transmission lines that he
makes the statement, it isn't a stupid statement at all in the context
of the OP's question and the technical details of the installation.


I agree with you and with Jeff. At 200kHz, I'm not even sure that the
coax acts as a pure transmission line anyway. I don't remember the lower
cutoff frequency. In any case, that was a good analysis, Brian. Thanks
for that.

On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, "Tom" wrote:


Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz compatible for
the new Elite 5?

It is quite a simple procedure actually that can be discovered in one of a few
different means.

1st - Consult the product information for the required information. or
2nd - Call a local supplier/authorized service provider. Many Marinas and
boating accessory sales locations will be happy to provide you with some
examples.
3rd - Call the manufacturer.

Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason why I
shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

Many people can splice coax. Very few will do it right or not at all when
inadvisable. being able to pass a signal is no indication that the splice was
done properly. Given your past posts covering a wide variety of subjects and
technologies, hardly any having to do with the actual purpose of this group, my
advice is to contact the manufacturer for advice and the proper parts for your
ideal installation.

Hi Gents,

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I placed a post in the boating newsgroup but
they haven't the radio tech knowledge as here.

I figured that splicing the connector would affect its abilitly to perform
100%. I do not want to damage the fishfinder head. It is 500 dollars.

Transducer and cable only about 100 dollars but the time to install it is
the kicker. It will take more than a day and I worry I would be installing a
less quality one right beside what looks to be a good quality one.For no
reason.

I was hoping someone here had done a similiar upgrade and knew how to
measure that existing tranducer with about 30 feet of cable.

Thank you all for the information, but obviously the best solution would be
to replace it. I was hoping to use existing one that may work just as
equally.

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

73s







"Flash" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, "Tom" wrote:


Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz compatible
for
the new Elite 5?

It is quite a simple procedure actually that can be discovered in one of a
few
different means.

1st - Consult the product information for the required information. or
2nd - Call a local supplier/authorized service provider. Many Marinas and
boating accessory sales locations will be happy to provide you with some
examples.
3rd - Call the manufacturer.

Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason why I
shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

Many people can splice coax. Very few will do it right or not at all when
inadvisable. being able to pass a signal is no indication that the splice
was
done properly. Given your past posts covering a wide variety of subjects
and
technologies, hardly any having to do with the actual purpose of this
group, my
advice is to contact the manufacturer for advice and the proper parts for
your
ideal installation.

On 3/4/2015 7:31 AM, Tom wrote:
Hi Gents,

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I placed a post in the boating newsgroup
but they haven't the radio tech knowledge as here.

I figured that splicing the connector would affect its abilitly to
perform 100%. I do not want to damage the fishfinder head. It is 500
dollars.

Transducer and cable only about 100 dollars but the time to install it
is the kicker. It will take more than a day and I worry I would be
installing a less quality one right beside what looks to be a good
quality one.For no reason.

I was hoping someone here had done a similiar upgrade and knew how to
measure that existing tranducer with about 30 feet of cable.

Thank you all for the information, but obviously the best solution would
be to replace it. I was hoping to use existing one that may work just as
equally.

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

73s







"Flash" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, "Tom" wrote:


Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz
compatible for
the new Elite 5?

It is quite a simple procedure actually that can be discovered in one
of a few
different means.

1st - Consult the product information for the required information. or
2nd - Call a local supplier/authorized service provider. Many Marinas and
boating accessory sales locations will be happy to provide you with some
examples.
3rd - Call the manufacturer.

Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason why I
shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

Many people can splice coax. Very few will do it right or not at all when
inadvisable. being able to pass a signal is no indication that the
splice was
done properly. Given your past posts covering a wide variety of
subjects and
technologies, hardly any having to do with the actual purpose of this
group, my
advice is to contact the manufacturer for advice and the proper parts
for your
ideal installation.



Tom,

It may work just fine. That's why Flash made his suggestions.

You will note none of the suggestions including posting in a boating
group. I wouldn't expect them to have the knowledge - but the ones
Flash suggested should either have the info or be able to get it.

And people in this group have a lot of radio knowledge - but you're
asking about a specific item which isn't related to amateur radio.
There *might* be another fisherman here who's familiar with your
transducer, but the changes are pretty slim.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On Wed, 4 Mar 2015 07:31:14 -0500, "Tom" wrote:

Hi Gents,

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I placed a post in the boating newsgroup but
they haven't the radio tech knowledge as here.

I figured that splicing the connector would affect its abilitly to perform
100%. I do not want to damage the fishfinder head. It is 500 dollars.

Transducer and cable only about 100 dollars but the time to install it is
the kicker. It will take more than a day and I worry I would be installing a
less quality one right beside what looks to be a good quality one.For no
reason.

I was hoping someone here had done a similiar upgrade and knew how to
measure that existing tranducer with about 30 feet of cable.

Thank you all for the information, but obviously the best solution would be
to replace it. I was hoping to use existing one that may work just as
equally.

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

73s

Tom, again, if you are worried about performance, which is a perfectly
reasonable thing to consider, I would recommend contacting the manufacturers of
the devices, (transducer you wish to try) and the finder for performance
specifications and potential recommendations for items that would satisfy your
needs. Having been in electronics manufacturing, (but not boating accessories) I
can tell you they should know how different transducers perform with their
finder, and vise-versa. I think this would be you best avenue to pursue. At
least it can't hurt to ask.

On 3/4/2015 6:31 AM, Tom wrote:
Hi Gents,

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I placed a post in the boating newsgroup
but they haven't the radio tech knowledge as here.

I figured that splicing the connector would affect its abilitly to
perform 100%. I do not want to damage the fishfinder head. It is 500
dollars.

Transducer and cable only about 100 dollars but the time to install it
is the kicker. It will take more than a day and I worry I would be
installing a less quality one right beside what looks to be a good
quality one.For no reason.

I was hoping someone here had done a similiar upgrade and knew how to
measure that existing tranducer with about 30 feet of cable.

Thank you all for the information, but obviously the best solution would
be to replace it. I was hoping to use existing one that may work just as
equally.

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

73s



I have a lot of experience with this from a long time ago. Just use the
transducer you have. Almost all are 200khz. If you really want to test
it, just put a signal generator on it and a scope. When you swish past
the frequency the amplitude will jump up. Very simple. There were some
125 khz transducers made and some 50 khz transducers, but they were far
more expensive and of course more rare.








"Flash" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, "Tom" wrote:


Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz
compatible for
the new Elite 5?

It is quite a simple procedure actually that can be discovered in one
of a few
different means.

1st - Consult the product information for the required information. or
2nd - Call a local supplier/authorized service provider. Many Marinas and
boating accessory sales locations will be happy to provide you with some
examples.
3rd - Call the manufacturer.

Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason why I
shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

Many people can splice coax. Very few will do it right or not at all when
inadvisable. being able to pass a signal is no indication that the
splice was
done properly. Given your past posts covering a wide variety of
subjects and
technologies, hardly any having to do with the actual purpose of this
group, my
advice is to contact the manufacturer for advice and the proper parts
for your
ideal installation.

On 3/4/2015 6:31 AM, Tom wrote:
Hi Gents,

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I placed a post in the boating newsgroup
but they haven't the radio tech knowledge as here.

I figured that splicing the connector would affect its abilitly to
perform 100%. I do not want to damage the fishfinder head. It is 500
dollars.

Transducer and cable only about 100 dollars but the time to install it
is the kicker. It will take more than a day and I worry I would be
installing a less quality one right beside what looks to be a good
quality one.For no reason.

I was hoping someone here had done a similiar upgrade and knew how to
measure that existing tranducer with about 30 feet of cable.

Thank you all for the information, but obviously the best solution would
be to replace it. I was hoping to use existing one that may work just as
equally.

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

73s




BTW, you can splice that cable all you want. It's 200Khz for God's sake.






"Flash" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, "Tom" wrote:


Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz
compatible for
the new Elite 5?

It is quite a simple procedure actually that can be discovered in one
of a few
different means.

1st - Consult the product information for the required information. or
2nd - Call a local supplier/authorized service provider. Many Marinas and
boating accessory sales locations will be happy to provide you with some
examples.
3rd - Call the manufacturer.

Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason why I
shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

Many people can splice coax. Very few will do it right or not at all when
inadvisable. being able to pass a signal is no indication that the
splice was
done properly. Given your past posts covering a wide variety of
subjects and
technologies, hardly any having to do with the actual purpose of this
group, my
advice is to contact the manufacturer for advice and the proper parts
for your
ideal installation.

On 3/3/2015 5:10 PM, Tom wrote:
Hi

I replaced my Eagle Supra ID fishfinder head with a new Lowrance Elite 5
(came with new transducer). The present transducer is the round style
glued to the bottom hull (through hull).

Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz compatible
for the new Elite 5? Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason
why I shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

But I really don't want to replace that cable up to the flybridge
through a lot of fishing and pulling. I am wondering if I can use the
old transducer and cable (extension & old transducer with 10ft wire). I
think the extension is 15 feet or so.

Any ideas? I am hoping I can simply splice the plug of the old
transducer wire to the new head.

Maybe the problem people are having is with your use of the word
"splice". That implies that you are cutting the cable. But on
rereading your post I think you are just asking if the existing
transducer is compatible with the new head. I assume they have
connectors at the head unit and at the transducer, right? Do they use
the same connectors on both the new and the old systems?

I certainly don't know anything about these transducers, but I am sure
there is more to it than just the frequency of the fish finder. There
is also impedance and power level. What do you know about the two
systems? Does the manual tell you much about it?

As others have suggested, you might want to contact Lowrance to find out
what they say about compatibility. It is unlikely they will tell you
much that you can bank on since they won't want to assume any liability.
But asking won't hurt. It may turn out that the transducers are a
common denominator in the industry and there is little incompatibility
like other electronics.

--

Rick

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, Tom wrote:

Hi

I replaced my Eagle Supra ID fishfinder head with a new Lowrance Elite 5
(came with new transducer). The present transducer is the round style
glued to the bottom hull (through hull).

Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz compatible
for the new Elite 5? Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason
why I shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

But I really don't want to replace that cable up to the flybridge
through a lot of fishing and pulling. I am wondering if I can use the
old transducer and cable (extension & old transducer with 10ft wire). I
think the extension is 15 feet or so.

Any ideas? I am hoping I can simply splice the plug of the old
transducer wire to the new head.

Thanks for any ideas

Cheers

73s

A web search shows your Eagle spec'd 192KHz. Ihe Lowrance seems to be
a dual freq. 83/200KHz. Briefly, to get optimum performance use the new transducer.

Thank you gents for the discussion.

Yes, I talked to Lowrance and of course they have a $200.00 (new tranducer
with longer coax) and my installation time is about a day's work. Of course
when you start pulling off panels of a 40 year old boat with flybridge you
will find another day's work.

I don't have a scope but I have a digital volt/ohm meter. I was hoping there
was a method of testing the existing transducer for compatibility.

The plug's ends do not match (male -- female) so I would have to splice to
use the exisiting.

Sounds to me that the most guaranteed way to buy the new product and install
it. But I am a Ham, and more of an Appliance Operator. The formulas you
shown above were most interesting but I didn't understand the theory and the
conclusion.

If I take it to the Marina, wow, that would be another $250.00 costs for
them to install a new tranducer, plus the costs of labor for their chap to
install it. There is nobody at any Marina around here (Southern Ontario
Canada) that would understand what you folks have talked about above and
they would instantly and simply order the new parts and install them. Maybe
installing less quality cables as the ones that are there are gutsy ones and
it is a through hull fitting already in place. In fact all Marina's around
here have very negative reputations for stuff like this.

So if you folks were in the same boat as I am, would you splice it? Would
you be worried about it working incorrectly or the possibility of it
damaging the head? I am not worried about deep water operations, never in
water over 100 feet deep and I believe these are good to 800 feet.

Would you guys simply slice it properly? Job done in an hour. Or take
Lowrance's suggestion and spend the money and time?

Thansk again for very informative and interesting discussion,

Cheers and Best Regards

73s

Tom






"Wond" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:10:29 -0500, Tom wrote:

Hi

I replaced my Eagle Supra ID fishfinder head with a new Lowrance Elite 5
(came with new transducer). The present transducer is the round style
glued to the bottom hull (through hull).

Is there a way to test the transducer to see if it is 200khz compatible
for the new Elite 5? Can I simply splice it myself or is there a reason
why I shouldn't. I have spliced coax many times.

But I really don't want to replace that cable up to the flybridge
through a lot of fishing and pulling. I am wondering if I can use the
old transducer and cable (extension & old transducer with 10ft wire). I
think the extension is 15 feet or so.

Any ideas? I am hoping I can simply splice the plug of the old
transducer wire to the new head.

Thanks for any ideas

Cheers

73s

A web search shows your Eagle spec'd 192KHz. Ihe Lowrance seems to be
a dual freq. 83/200KHz. Briefly, to get optimum performance use the new
transducer.