"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...

I don't think he is! He is demonstrating by reductio ad absurdum that
the photons *don't* disappear.

That is wrong, for what I am asserting is that they don't appear in the
first place in RF
radiation from an antenna because the mechanism for their generation is not
present.

IMHO, it is possible for E-M radiation to be present in several amplitude
modulations, the
(Gaussian?) of a photon or the continuous envelope of a carrier wave.

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna gareth wrote:
"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...

I don't think he is! He is demonstrating by reductio ad absurdum that
the photons *don't* disappear.

That is wrong, for what I am asserting is that they don't appear in the
first place in RF
radiation from an antenna because the mechanism for their generation is not
present.

Then you are disagreeing with over a hundred years of well established
physics.

IMHO, it is possible for E-M radiation to be present in several amplitude
modulations, the
(Gaussian?) of a photon or the continuous envelope of a carrier wave.

Incoherent, meaningless word salad.


--
Jim Pennino

"gareth" wrote in message
...

AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.

Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such a
beginning and end.

What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?

Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?

For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?

What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)

These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?

gareth wrote:

"gareth" wrote in message
...

AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.

Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such a
beginning and end.

What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?

Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?

For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?

What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)

These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?

You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.


--
Roger Hayter

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.
Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such
a
beginning and end.
What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?
Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?
For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?
What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)
These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons
and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and
uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?
You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.

Not so, for in that case the light is produced by the action of individual
atomic particles
and you cannot radiate at 1 MHz (from Wayne's example) with a single atom.

gareth wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.
Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such
a
beginning and end.
What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?
Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?
For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?
What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)
These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons
and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and
uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?
You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.

Not so, for in that case the light is produced by the action of individual
atomic particles
and you cannot radiate at 1 MHz (from Wayne's example) with a single atom.

Had an MRI scan recently?

--
Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:

gareth wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.
Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such
a
beginning and end.
What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?
Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?
For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?
What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)
These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons
and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and
uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?
You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.

Not so, for in that case the light is produced by the action of individual
atomic particles
and you cannot radiate at 1 MHz (from Wayne's example) with a single atom.

Had an MRI scan recently?

(For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think MRI does much at 1MHz, but it
certainly works at RF rather then light frequencies.)

--
Roger Hayter

On 9/9/2015 3:41 PM, Roger Hayter wrote:
gareth wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.
Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such
a
beginning and end.
What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?
Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?
For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?
What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)
These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons
and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and
uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?
You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.

Not so, for in that case the light is produced by the action of individual
atomic particles
and you cannot radiate at 1 MHz (from Wayne's example) with a single atom.

Had an MRI scan recently?


What's an MRI of a vacuum look like?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:19:20 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:


What's an MRI of a vacuum look like?

http://sweetclipart.com/multisite/sw...um_outline.png

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/9/2015 3:41 PM, Roger Hayter wrote:
gareth wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
AIUI, the wave / particle duality of the photon means that it has a
beginning
and an end, from the particle model.
Therefore, the wave model must exhibit amplitude modulation to have such
a
beginning and end.
What is the waveshape of such amplitude modulation?
Planck's hv gives a fixed, particular energy for each photon; so how many
complete cycles
does the photon have within its amplitude envelope?
For those who maintain that RF radiation from antennae is composed of
photons, where
does each photon end and the next one begin?
What experimental evidence is there that RF photons exist (it is easy to
show the existence
of continuous waves, of course)
These are pretty fundamental questions raised from the claim of photons
and
perhaps the inability
of the photonists to answer them is indicative of their weak and
uncertain
knoweldge of the subject area?
You can apply all those arguments to a torch (flashlight), and they will
be equally unhelpful.

Not so, for in that case the light is produced by the action of individual
atomic particles
and you cannot radiate at 1 MHz (from Wayne's example) with a single atom.

Had an MRI scan recently?


What's an MRI of a vacuum look like?

Much like the inside of Gareth's head, I expect.

--
STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur