"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1512051037460.16706@darkstar. example.org...
Most threads he starts can be interpreted as on topic, and an excuse to
post something on topic.

Indeed they are just that, and also a defence by a decent right-thinking
individual
against the infantile and anti-social effluent that comes from so many
others.

I've been a subscriber to uk.radio.amateur for 21 years and am increasingly
concerned
that a cornerstone of amateur radio in Brit is being driven down from its
position as an exemplar of gentlemanly and technical discussion, and so I
try to
fly the flag for those traditions.

As I said elsewhere, 43 years ago I completed an electronics degree,
specialising
in computers and communications, and am now in a position as a retired
engineer
to discuss those things that puzzled me and which were never explained at
the time in the rush to
be able to regurgitate facts in order to pass exams. I have assumed,
possibly wrongly,
that the spirit of enquiry and technical curiosity was what motivated all
radio amateurs.

I'm a great believer that education should deliver understanding as opposed
to training that
only delivers knowledge.

If you had a teenage daughter, which would you prefer her to receive, sex
education or sex training?

On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 16:12:31 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

As I said elsewhere, 43 years ago I completed an electronics degree,
specialising in computers and communications, and am now in a position
as a retired engineer to discuss those things that puzzled me and
which were never explained ...

Retired engineer with a degree? I would never have suspected that you
had any level of electronic competence beyond basic dabbling, much
less an engineering degree, which incidentally doesn't exist unless
you obtained a general engineering degree. Which university, what
degree, and in what year did you graduate (presumably 1972)? I want
to verify your claims.

Citing from
(And that is despite that in my last 10 years of gainful employment
I was designing test eqpt for mobile phone development!)

10 years designing test equipment should have given you considerable
experience in radio techniques, terminology, and in particular
standards. Yet, you seem to lack the relevant technical vocabulary
preferring CB lingo over proper engineering terms. You've also never
mentioned any testing RF testing standards. It's also odd that you
claim to have worked in the industry, yet have never offered an
anecdote, story, math, or calculation from your unspecified years of
employment. Something is wrong here.

I'm a great believer that education should deliver understanding as opposed
to training that only delivers knowledge.

This is not directed at you in particular, but in my never humble
opinion and limited experience in edukation, the best that can be done
is to overload the student with as much relevant and diverse
knowledge, facts, and techniques as possible. What they do with it
will be determined after they graduate and go to work. Experience is
the best teacher.

At the time I graduated (1971) college, teaching methods revolved
around independent thinking. Collaboration was deemed cheating.
Teamwork was tolerated only if there was a shortage of lab equipment.
All that has fortunately changed today, but it left it's mark on me. I
initially had a VERY difficult time working with other engineers and
technicians simply because I had never done it in skool.

If you had a teenage daughter, which would you prefer her to receive, sex
education or sex training?

There's not much you can tell a teenager. They already know
everything.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

En el artículo , gareth
escribió:

If you had a teenage daughter, which would you prefer her to receive, sex
education or sex training?

You disgusting old pervert. Just shows how your mind works. Bet you'd
like to do the sex training yourself, on a one-to-one basis, hm?

And you have the nerve to call others a danger to children in malicious
poison pen emails to their employers.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 05/12/2015 15:40, Michael Black wrote:
I've never looked in the UK newsgroup, all I see is when what happens
there falls out to the rec.radio.amateur.* hierarchy. Maybe there is a
real grievance, maybe not, but out here, I see people more interested in
attacking him than talking about amateur radio.

Michael

very true it is shocking ....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

Phil Kyle wrote:
On 05/12/15 12:16, Jimbo in the Borders ... wrote:

I admit it ....I wasn't beat up ...


I suggest ignoring Gareth for the rest of Dec. Not crowing about
shunning, or talking around him, just plain ignoring his posts.

Is that really Father Kylemass?

On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 12:30:27 +0000, Phil Kyle wrote:

On 05/12/15 12:16, Jimbo in the Borders ... wrote:

I admit it ....I wasn't beat up ...


I suggest ignoring Gareth for the rest of Dec. Not crowing about
shunning, or talking around him, just plain ignoring his posts.

December? When will the otherwise smart people here stop feeding Evens by
letting him draw them into useless discussions designed to illicit responses? I
long ago kill filed him, why don't others do the same? He clearly has nothing to
contribute to rra.antenna, kill filing, or simply ignoring him will go a long
way to eliminating the problem troll. Enough is enough already.

Bob KB2ZGN

"Bob" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 12:30:27 +0000, Phil Kyle
wrote:
On 05/12/15 12:16, Jimbo in the Borders ... wrote:
I admit it ....I wasn't beat up ...
I suggest ignoring Gareth for the rest of Dec. Not crowing about
shunning, or talking around him, just plain ignoring his posts.
December? When will the otherwise smart people here stop feeding Evens by
letting him draw them into useless discussions designed to illicit
responses? I
long ago kill filed him, why don't others do the same? He clearly has
nothing to
contribute to rra.antenna, kill filing, or simply ignoring him will go a
long
way to eliminating the problem troll. Enough is enough already.
Bob KB2ZGN

ITYM "elicit", and I am sad to see that you are another who has decided to
side with the
gratuitous abusers. As always, there is none so blind as he who will not
see.

From your own gratuitous abuse above, I take it that you are a
CBer-masquerading-as-a-radio-ham,
and to help you to understand the difference, I append my FAQ ...

-----ooooo-----



Q. What is Ham Radio?

A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

-----ooooo----

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.


-----ooooo-----

One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.

A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.

Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.

-----ooooo-----

If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!

-----ooooo-----

Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!

On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:42:55 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

From your own gratuitous abuse above, I take it that you are a
CBer-masquerading-as-a-radio-ham,
and to help you to understand the difference, I append my FAQ ...

So much for burning bridges behind you. I suggest you not set fire to
the bridge that you're standing upon.

I got my start in radio as a CB operator. Most of my ham radio
friends in high skool were also CB operators. That's because we could
afford a CB radio or the 1960's, but not ham radios of the day. I
tried to build my own, but lacked the time and expertise. I settled
for converting old mobile FM radios and repeaters into a workable
communications system. Circa 1965:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Old%20Repeaters/slides/wb6eep-01.html
Had it not been for CB, I would not have been able to get a start in
radio of any type.

More recently, some of the best volunteers for events and emergency
operations came from the CB sector. When looking in the mirror, don't
assume that you're seeing the entire world. Ham radio is a very big
hobby, with room for contesting, DX, experimentation, EME, antennas,
chatting, emergency services, public service, message passing, and
whatever else you can devise within the rules and regulations. Each
area comes and goes as the times change. Were ham radio limited to
being only a technical hobby, it would have died long ago.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/5/2015 4:33 PM, Bob wrote:
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 12:30:27 +0000, Phil Kyle wrote:

On 05/12/15 12:16, Jimbo in the Borders ... wrote:

I admit it ....I wasn't beat up ...


I suggest ignoring Gareth for the rest of Dec. Not crowing about
shunning, or talking around him, just plain ignoring his posts.

December? When will the otherwise smart people here stop feeding Evens by
letting him draw them into useless discussions designed to illicit responses? I
long ago kill filed him, why don't others do the same? He clearly has nothing to
contribute to rra.antenna, kill filing, or simply ignoring him will go a long
way to eliminating the problem troll. Enough is enough already.

I've kill filed him and a few others who seem to only post abuse
directed toward him. I'm on the verge of adding Jeff. I have tried the
same experiment he is conducting. The difference is I saw the futility
of it in a few iterations. Even though Jeff is kill filed by him Jeff
continues to reply to him with posts that are exceedingly more annoying.

This group has really gone to the dogs. One that was much worse was a
physics group where I am pretty sure everyone posting is insane.

--

Rick

"gareth" wrote in message
...
If you really must disrupt these NGs with page after page of unnecessary
and gratuitous abuse, abuse which is largely confabulated and
entirely false, then please at least have the decency to acknowledge
that the fault lies in your own personality for your own atrocious
behaviour
and your own need for attention and do not try to justify the
unjustifiable
by confabulating that the victim of your spleen is seeking that abuse.

Amateur radio has twin traditions of gentlemanly conduct and technical
motivation and you would do well to recognise that.


Some say talking to yourself is the first sign of madness, old Bean.
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.uk