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Old July 26th 17, 09:34 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 41
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"


It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.


Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /n't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

19022013(Show quotations)

  #22   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 10:02 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,881
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 26/07/2017 19:24, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 26/07/2017 17:58,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.

Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.

Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

ITYM, "antennae"


It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.


Try growing up and joining the 21st Century.


--
Jim Pennino
  #23   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 10:14 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 623
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, wrote:

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 26/07/2017 17:58,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.

Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.

Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

ITYM, "antennae"


It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.

Arthur Collins was in the dictionary business besides making radios?

Michael

  #24   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 10:16 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 623
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 26/07/2017 16:33, Jim H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:58:27 -0500, in ,
Bob Wilson wrote:

On 7/20/2017 2:14 PM, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

There is a lot yet to be fully understood about access to the LF bands
in the US. But if you are under a HV line, they might well be using the
line for carrying control signals for the power grid. The technology,
PLC, doesn't play nicely with ham usage.

How do you find whether a power line is using PLC? For some reason you
can't find anywhere a list of places that are OK, or that are not OK.
Instead you have go to a website and ask, and wait to be told yes or no.
So we (the hams) are in second place when it comes to sending
information over these lines.

(There is a fairly new line at something like 250KV close to my back
yard. I don't yet know whether it is carrying PLC.)
Bob Wilson, WA9D
As far as I know, in the USA we only have to inquire before operating
if we're located within 1 km of a power line.


Whereas here in Brit we have restrictions within 1/2 mile of any aerodrome.

But that's a restriction on antenna height (40 feet, I believe - but as I
don't live within 1/2 mile of an airfield, I haven't checked lately).


And it has nothing to do with technical matters, it has everything to do
with not getting in the way of the airplanes.

There was a similar law in Canada when I was licensed decades ago. I
assume it hasn't changed much, but I've never lived near an airport
either, so it never applied to me.

Michael

  #25   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 11:46 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jan 2015
Posts: 155
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

Custos Custodum wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"

It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.


Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /æn't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

1902˜2013(Show quotations)


Interpreting that, it does bear out Gareth's theory that antennae is the
original plural but says that antennas is also used "especially" with
radio aerials. So the conclusion I draw is that both are correct but
that antennas is growing in popularity.

--

Roger Hayter


  #26   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 11:54 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013
Posts: 381
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 26/07/2017 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Custos Custodum wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"

It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.


Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /æn't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

1902˜2013(Show quotations)


Interpreting that, it does bear out Gareth's theory that antennae is the
original plural but says that antennas is also used "especially" with
radio aerials. So the conclusion I draw is that both are correct but
that antennas is growing in popularity.


No, it confirms the converse.



--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud
  #27   Report Post  
Old July 27th 17, 12:06 AM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jan 2015
Posts: 155
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

Brian Reay wrote:

On 26/07/2017 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Custos Custodum wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"

It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.

Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /æn't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

1902˜2013(Show quotations)


Interpreting that, it does bear out Gareth's theory that antennae is the
original plural but says that antennas is also used "especially" with
radio aerials. So the conclusion I draw is that both are correct but
that antennas is growing in popularity.


No, it confirms the converse.


You mean that antennas was original, but antennae is growing in
popularity????

--

Roger Hayter
  #28   Report Post  
Old July 27th 17, 12:19 AM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013
Posts: 381
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 27/07/2017 00:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

On 26/07/2017 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Custos Custodum wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"

It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.

Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /æn't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

1902˜2013(Show quotations)

Interpreting that, it does bear out Gareth's theory that antennae is the
original plural but says that antennas is also used "especially" with
radio aerials. So the conclusion I draw is that both are correct but
that antennas is growing in popularity.


No, it confirms the converse.


You mean that antennas was original, but antennae is growing in
popularity????


Are you trying to usurp Evans as the village idiot?

Hint, there is no mention of 'growing popularity' of either- it is clear
they mean antennas is used for RF antennas.



--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud
  #29   Report Post  
Old July 27th 17, 12:39 AM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jan 2015
Posts: 155
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

Brian Reay wrote:

On 27/07/2017 00:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

On 26/07/2017 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Custos Custodum wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:16:02 +0100, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote:

ITYM, "antennae"

It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae"
for things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not
just in the US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.

Your wish is my command. From OED3, March 2016:

antenna, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |Off
Quotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /an't?n?/, U.S. /æn't?n?/
Frequency (in current use):
Inflections: Pl. antennae, (esp. in sense 4) antennas.
Origin: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin antenna, antemna,
Italian antenna.
Etymology: classical Latin antenna, earlier antemna... (Show More)

4. A wire, rod, or other structure by which airborne radio waves are
transmitted or received, usually as part of a radio or television
transmission or receiving system; = aerial n. 3.

1902˜2013(Show quotations)

Interpreting that, it does bear out Gareth's theory that antennae is the
original plural but says that antennas is also used "especially" with
radio aerials. So the conclusion I draw is that both are correct but
that antennas is growing in popularity.


No, it confirms the converse.


You mean that antennas was original, but antennae is growing in
popularity????


Are you trying to usurp Evans as the village idiot?

Hint, there is no mention of 'growing popularity' of either- it is clear
they mean antennas is used for RF antennas.


It is really not my fault if you use the word converse when you don't
know what it means. The dictionary says that antennas is a second
variant 'especially' used for radio aerials, it certainly doesn't say it
is exclusive usage in this context. Growing popularity is from my own
observation of the literature, antennae is widely used in UK 1930s
publications.

And I do resent pompous ****s who can barely speak English calling *me*
an idiot.



--

Roger Hayter
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Old July 27th 17, 12:54 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 964
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

Michael Black wrote on 7/26/2017 5:16 PM:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 26/07/2017 16:33, Jim H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:58:27 -0500, in ,
Bob Wilson wrote:

On 7/20/2017 2:14 PM, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

There is a lot yet to be fully understood about access to the LF bands
in the US. But if you are under a HV line, they might well be using the
line for carrying control signals for the power grid. The technology,
PLC, doesn't play nicely with ham usage.

How do you find whether a power line is using PLC? For some reason you
can't find anywhere a list of places that are OK, or that are not OK.
Instead you have go to a website and ask, and wait to be told yes or no.
So we (the hams) are in second place when it comes to sending
information over these lines.

(There is a fairly new line at something like 250KV close to my back
yard. I don't yet know whether it is carrying PLC.)
Bob Wilson, WA9D
As far as I know, in the USA we only have to inquire before operating
if we're located within 1 km of a power line.


Whereas here in Brit we have restrictions within 1/2 mile of any aerodrome.

But that's a restriction on antenna height (40 feet, I believe - but as I
don't live within 1/2 mile of an airfield, I haven't checked lately).


And it has nothing to do with technical matters, it has everything to do
with not getting in the way of the airplanes.

There was a similar law in Canada when I was licensed decades ago. I assume
it hasn't changed much, but I've never lived near an airport either, so it
never applied to me.


Do they restrict the height of trees as well?

Near my house the city wanted to extend the runway. The main road in and
out of town passes within some hundred(s) of feet of the end of the run way
with power lines. Someone paid to bury the power lines and they cut the
lighting poles down to about 7 feet as well as clearing a vacant lot across
the street. They even bought out a Waffle house a couple doors down the
street because it would have been too many people in the area around the
flight path. Some other businesses were allowed to remain because they
didn't have as many people in them typically.

The part I don't get is how they can ignore the traffic on that road.
School buses run by there every day full of kids and standing taller than
the lighting poles. I don't get how all this was reasoned out, why one
thing would be mitigated and other things not.

--

Rick C


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