Cecil Moore wrote:

Harold E. Johnson wrote:

This has GOT to
be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.


He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.

Oy! Now there is a way to solve problems!

I have not read the book, so cannot comment with authority, but it
seems Julian is in a hurry to throw away time in order to solve problems
that can or will be solved without tossing time.

The amount of disciplines that "time" cuts across are many. The concept
has served us well for a long long time.

The "answering" of quantum effects issues by throwing out time will
probably create many new problems with just about everything else.

My curiosity is piqued. I'll have to read the book.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Cecil:

Thanks for that book/author--I was unaware of it!!!!
You look away for a few years--someone writes a new book!!! grin

Warmest regards,
John

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
| Harold E. Johnson wrote:
| This has GOT to
| be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.
|
| He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
| quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
| Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
| Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
| resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
| physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.
| --
| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
|
|
| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
| ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Cecil:

All this chat made me rethink a lot too, perhaps there are models of your
"dimensions" out there--black holes. And, these are portals into one/some
of those dimensions--and the "end of our universe" is nothing more than the
shell of a black hole--and we can break though that "shielding" with
sufficient energy.



I know, that is a desperate reach, but those black holes can certainly be
used as a "mental model" to draw pictures of something--and I haven't heard
of anyone constructing a "believable" model from them yet!!!



Warmest regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Cecil:
|
| Thanks for that book/author--I was unaware of it!!!!
| You look away for a few years--someone writes a new book!!! grin
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
| "Cecil Moore" wrote in message
| ...
|| Harold E. Johnson wrote:
|| This has GOT to
|| be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.
||
|| He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
|| quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
|| Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
|| Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
|| resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
|| physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.
|| --
|| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
||
||
|| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
| News==----
|| http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
| Newsgroups
|| ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
|
|

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
perception of time.


Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.

Perception of change.....hmmmm. What are the units of change? In other
words, how would 'change' itself be quantified'?

73, ac6xg

Cecil Moore wrote:

Harold E. Johnson wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:

Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.


Ah, but they echo range.


And they were doing so long before the concepts of time,
perception, echo, and range were invented. Those things
are part of the malleable human model of reality and
probably do not even exist in the bat's hard-wired
model of reality.

Evidence that time is not just a concept of man.

73 de ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:



Cecil Moore wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:

I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
perception of time.



Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.


Perception of change.....hmmmm. What are the units of change? In other
words, how would 'change' itself be quantified'?


Perhaps we could call it hiib ( or any other made up word) Whatever it
is, it would seem a lot like time! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Skimmed that several years ago when alerted by a friend. Despite Barbour's
credentials, I didn't think much of it then either.

W4ZCB

John Smith wrote:
I know, that is a desperate reach, but those black holes can certainly be
used as a "mental model" to draw pictures of something--and I haven't heard
of anyone constructing a "believable" model from them yet!!!

Consider that our entire universe may have been just one
of a large number of black holes and the only difference
is that ours reached critical mass and exploded. All of
existence may contain many bubble universes, some even
colliding with each other. I once read that there is a
section of our universe out near the edge where the objects
are blue shifted indicating something very large coming
at us and it is only about ten billion light years away.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Tue, 03 May 2005 09:11:12 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

One of the earliest
Greek philosophers, Parmenides, maintained that there was
neither time nor motion, only change.

Dear Cecil,

I'm not sure that I agree with Parmenides - it depends on how he
answers, "change with respect to what?"

Unless we can make a case for change with respect to time, poor Mrs.
Doppler is going to find it more and more difficult to feed her
children :-)



Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html

Jim Kelley wrote:
Perception of change.....hmmmm. What are the units of change? In other
words, how would 'change' itself be quantified'?

Change is binary. Either something changes or it doesn't.

Here's a question for you. Does time itself flow or are we
flowing through time? If we could travel at the speed of
light, would we be synchronized with the flow of time?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----