On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:05:21 -0400, John Smith
wrote:





--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
You can convert any text file to PDF format with Open Office Writer.. and
it's free also.
73 Dave kc1di

You can 'Create Java Programs for free' by downloading the Java JDK and Java
tutorial from http://Java.sun.com - and Python programming at Python.org -
and PHP programmnig, and Perl programming at activestate.com.
and you can host your own website by downloading a free server from
Apache.org.
then you have openOffice.org for an office suite that's free and Gimp for
image manipulation - and Satori

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Many here seem to be hung up on .pdf files, adobes pdf creator is
expensive.

Here is a utility which installs itself like a printer, all you do is
choose
to print from any windows application, choose this printer driver and it
will "print" a .pdf file of any word, notepad, etc. And you end up with a
.pdf of the work in question...

Warmest regards,
John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual reality, right
before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the "C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to use a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows XP no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
.. .
You can 'Create Java Programs for free' by downloading the Java JDK and
Java
tutorial from http://Java.sun.com - and Python programming at
Python.org -
and PHP programmnig, and Perl programming at activestate.com.
and you can host your own website by downloading a free server from
Apache.org.
then you have openOffice.org for an office suite that's free and Gimp
for
image manipulation - and Satori

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Many here seem to be hung up on .pdf files, adobes pdf creator is
expensive.

Here is a utility which installs itself like a printer, all you do is
choose
to print from any windows application, choose this printer driver and it
will "print" a .pdf file of any word, notepad, etc. And you end up with
a
.pdf of the work in question...

Warmest regards,
John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual reality, right
before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

sounds like you're mixing up Java and JavaScript.
Java is really a good language for Linux - and Wndows - And for i-series
(AS/400)
C# is a java wannabe. (VB.net runs as fast as C#)
You call them scripting languages - but they're really hybrids - they are
compiled - but not to machine language.
Java needs the JVM - and C# needs the dot-net framework.
Java will run on most platforms.
C# will run on windows.
Java rules.
C# is not my favorite language - in case I wasn't clear.
I like Python better than Perl. It is Object-oriented. Java spoiled me for
OO.
When it comes to server-side programming, Java is the one - JSP and
servlets.


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the "C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to use
a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows XP
no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly
should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

Java is NOT a computer language... script compilers have always been
available, perl has one also, as does C#, wsh, etc--java "compiled" is
really still a script calling winapi's on windows, and calls into kernel
code in Linux...

.... it is slow...

There is nothing wrong with scripting languages, I use perl all the time
(but I don't bother with the "compiler")--indeed, one scripting language is
enough--why the world wants a hundred is above my understanding... windows
wish/wsh has front ends for most, so you can write in the syntax you are
fluent in--perl--wish--C#--java--etc--in fact--this is how they implemented
Java on their platform, and why SUN sued them and they removed it...
Java--Java Beans--Javascript is all pretty much the same--mostly "compiling"
only obfuscates the code--at first this made it difficult for others to
copy--now Java "de-compilers" tear it apart to the base source code with
ease... Java "compiles" in OS specific format--javascript is in webpages...
the JIT (Just In Time compiler) "runs" that java code on a windows system...
what ultimately runs--used to be the wsh/wish windows script--now since SUN
sued, you must get their binaries...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..
sounds like you're mixing up Java and JavaScript.
Java is really a good language for Linux - and Wndows - And for i-series
(AS/400)
C# is a java wannabe. (VB.net runs as fast as C#)
You call them scripting languages - but they're really hybrids - they are
compiled - but not to machine language.
Java needs the JVM - and C# needs the dot-net framework.
Java will run on most platforms.
C# will run on windows.
Java rules.
C# is not my favorite language - in case I wasn't clear.
I like Python better than Perl. It is Object-oriented. Java spoiled me for
OO.
When it comes to server-side programming, Java is the one - JSP and
servlets.


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the "C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to use
a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows XP
no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly
should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the
SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few
are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

.... in the above post...

--used to be the wsh/wish windows script--
should have been:
--used to be the wsh/wish windows scripting engine--

Warmest regards,
John
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is NOT a computer language... script compilers have always been
available, perl has one also, as does C#, wsh, etc--java "compiled" is
really still a script calling winapi's on windows, and calls into kernel
code in Linux...

... it is slow...

There is nothing wrong with scripting languages, I use perl all the time
(but I don't bother with the "compiler")--indeed, one scripting language
is enough--why the world wants a hundred is above my understanding...
windows wish/wsh has front ends for most, so you can write in the syntax
you are fluent in--perl--wish--C#--java--etc--in fact--this is how they
implemented Java on their platform, and why SUN sued them and they removed
it... Java--Java Beans--Javascript is all pretty much the same--mostly
"compiling" only obfuscates the code--at first this made it difficult for
others to copy--now Java "de-compilers" tear it apart to the base source
code with ease... Java "compiles" in OS specific format--javascript is in
webpages... the JIT (Just In Time compiler) "runs" that java code on a
windows system... what ultimately runs--used to be the wsh/wish windows
script--now since SUN sued, you must get their binaries...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..
sounds like you're mixing up Java and JavaScript.
Java is really a good language for Linux - and Wndows - And for i-series
(AS/400)
C# is a java wannabe. (VB.net runs as fast as C#)
You call them scripting languages - but they're really hybrids - they are
compiled - but not to machine language.
Java needs the JVM - and C# needs the dot-net framework.
Java will run on most platforms.
C# will run on windows.
Java rules.
C# is not my favorite language - in case I wasn't clear.
I like Python better than Perl. It is Object-oriented. Java spoiled me
for
OO.
When it comes to server-side programming, Java is the one - JSP and
servlets.


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the "C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to
use
a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows
XP
no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly
should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the
SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few
are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

hehe

Perl is obfusication personified and suitable for small jobs only.

Java , C++ and most other OO languages are scalable.

speaking of s l o w
no matter how fast they make processors
no matter how much memory
no matter how large the hard drive
as soon as they're on the market
someone will write the app
that will bring it to its knees
that's the job of M$ ;-)

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is NOT a computer language... script compilers have always been
available, perl has one also, as does C#, wsh, etc--java "compiled" is
really still a script calling winapi's on windows, and calls into kernel
code in Linux...

... it is slow...

There is nothing wrong with scripting languages, I use perl all the time
(but I don't bother with the "compiler")--indeed, one scripting language
is
enough--why the world wants a hundred is above my understanding... windows
wish/wsh has front ends for most, so you can write in the syntax you are
fluent in--perl--wish--C#--java--etc--in fact--this is how they
implemented
Java on their platform, and why SUN sued them and they removed it...
Java--Java Beans--Javascript is all pretty much the same--mostly
"compiling"
only obfuscates the code--at first this made it difficult for others to
copy--now Java "de-compilers" tear it apart to the base source code with
ease... Java "compiles" in OS specific format--javascript is in
webpages...
the JIT (Just In Time compiler) "runs" that java code on a windows
system...
what ultimately runs--used to be the wsh/wish windows script--now since
SUN
sued, you must get their binaries...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..
sounds like you're mixing up Java and JavaScript.
Java is really a good language for Linux - and Wndows - And for i-series
(AS/400)
C# is a java wannabe. (VB.net runs as fast as C#)
You call them scripting languages - but they're really hybrids - they
are
compiled - but not to machine language.
Java needs the JVM - and C# needs the dot-net framework.
Java will run on most platforms.
C# will run on windows.
Java rules.
C# is not my favorite language - in case I wasn't clear.
I like Python better than Perl. It is Object-oriented. Java spoiled me
for
OO.
When it comes to server-side programming, Java is the one - JSP and
servlets.


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the
"C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to
use
a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows
XP
no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly
should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the
SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few
are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

Hal:

LOL! Years ago I can remember looking at perl and asking, "WHAT THE H3LL IS
THAT?"--now it looks like my grocery list, simple--but I get your point...

However, how is java or "C++" any better, after cobol, basic and
pascal--then seeing Dennis Richies' little project (A, B and "C"), I asked,
"WHAT THE H3LL IS THAT?" grin

.... however, point well taken...
Mr. Dennis Richies REAL homepage:
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
...
hehe

Perl is obfusication personified and suitable for small jobs only.

Java , C++ and most other OO languages are scalable.

speaking of s l o w
no matter how fast they make processors
no matter how much memory
no matter how large the hard drive
as soon as they're on the market
someone will write the app
that will bring it to its knees
that's the job of M$ ;-)

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is NOT a computer language... script compilers have always been
available, perl has one also, as does C#, wsh, etc--java "compiled" is
really still a script calling winapi's on windows, and calls into kernel
code in Linux...

... it is slow...

There is nothing wrong with scripting languages, I use perl all the time
(but I don't bother with the "compiler")--indeed, one scripting language
is
enough--why the world wants a hundred is above my understanding...
windows
wish/wsh has front ends for most, so you can write in the syntax you are
fluent in--perl--wish--C#--java--etc--in fact--this is how they
implemented
Java on their platform, and why SUN sued them and they removed it...
Java--Java Beans--Javascript is all pretty much the same--mostly
"compiling"
only obfuscates the code--at first this made it difficult for others to
copy--now Java "de-compilers" tear it apart to the base source code with
ease... Java "compiles" in OS specific format--javascript is in
webpages...
the JIT (Just In Time compiler) "runs" that java code on a windows
system...
what ultimately runs--used to be the wsh/wish windows script--now since
SUN
sued, you must get their binaries...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..
sounds like you're mixing up Java and JavaScript.
Java is really a good language for Linux - and Wndows - And for
i-series
(AS/400)
C# is a java wannabe. (VB.net runs as fast as C#)
You call them scripting languages - but they're really hybrids - they
are
compiled - but not to machine language.
Java needs the JVM - and C# needs the dot-net framework.
Java will run on most platforms.
C# will run on windows.
Java rules.
C# is not my favorite language - in case I wasn't clear.
I like Python better than Perl. It is Object-oriented. Java spoiled me
for
OO.
When it comes to server-side programming, Java is the one - JSP and
servlets.


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Java is OK for Linux, C# is better on windows machines (both use the
"C"
programming syntax--both are scripting languages--if you are going to
use
a
scripting language get activeperl, it is free and the best)... Windows
XP
no
longer supports java--if you patch with SP2 (and you most certainly
should)
java is lost and must be installed as a third party component from the
SUN
Microsystems site... I don't use Java--too slow... most malicious
webpage/email/newsgroup attacks are in java these days... although few
are
successful--some are... scriptkiddies favorite language is Java...

Warmest regards,
John

Perl is good at what its designed for - text manipulation and report
generation.
And as they say - its also known as the Swiss-Army Chain Saw of languages.

To answer the question how is Java and the OO-languages better than Cobol
and the procedural languages.
You'll have to get into the Object-oriented way of thinking
(and it was not an easy paradigm shift for me)
Java 'grows on you' (some say 'like a mold')
at first its ok, because the syntax is easy enough.
Then you get into inheritance and Polymorphism and the other OO concepts
its a different way of thinking about programming.

google "Thinking in Java" or "Thinking in C++" by Bruce Eckel for a little
more insight into the OO-way.



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Hal:

LOL! Years ago I can remember looking at perl and asking, "WHAT THE H3LL
IS
THAT?"--now it looks like my grocery list, simple--but I get your point...

However, how is java or "C++" any better, after cobol, basic and
pascal--then seeing Dennis Richies' little project (A, B and "C"), I
asked,
"WHAT THE H3LL IS THAT?" grin

... however, point well taken...
Mr. Dennis Richies REAL homepage:
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/

Warmest regards,
John

There is no Object Orientated Assembly Language (by definition)--it is the
way you write the assembly code which will either make it OOP specification
compliant, or not--I was lucky, I naturally wrote code that way, when it
made/makes sense... from the start I seen myself showing up with a briefcase
full of cdroms, all containing code from past projects, and written with
procedure/function calls, containing data which was appropriate for each,
using NO global data (well, sometimes ya gotta), appropriate use of dynamic
and static .dll calls, so as to be sane, etc, etc... and constructing whole,
new programs from what has already been built with highly structured code...

This is all OOP is--however, the "Pseudo-Intellectuals" immediately start
banding about such terms, and do not understand that these terms are based
on very simple principals--and that one does NOT need an "Object Orientated
Language" to create such code--and yes, except for all data having to be
global in the past, in Perl, you could have always written OOP in Perl if
you had chosen (for the most part, that has all changed, now you can keep
data and variables local)--sometimes, I still choose not to...

Java is a scripting language which can be "compiled", it is not a good
language--it is popular with scriptkiddies (black hats) which think "C code"
is difficult for others to understand--it is "C Syntax" and I am writing my
memoirs in "C" !!!! grin

In the industry we watch out for people showing up and using "OOP" as they
would George Bushes' name, or as a holy mantra--it shows they are either
fresh out of college, or "Weekend Programmers", or worse, scriptkiddies...

Warmest regards,
John

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
.. .
Perl is good at what its designed for - text manipulation and report
generation.
And as they say - its also known as the Swiss-Army Chain Saw of languages.

To answer the question how is Java and the OO-languages better than Cobol
and the procedural languages.
You'll have to get into the Object-oriented way of thinking
(and it was not an easy paradigm shift for me)
Java 'grows on you' (some say 'like a mold')
at first its ok, because the syntax is easy enough.
Then you get into inheritance and Polymorphism and the other OO concepts
its a different way of thinking about programming.

google "Thinking in Java" or "Thinking in C++" by Bruce Eckel for a little
more insight into the OO-way.



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Hal:

LOL! Years ago I can remember looking at perl and asking, "WHAT THE H3LL
IS
THAT?"--now it looks like my grocery list, simple--but I get your
point...

However, how is java or "C++" any better, after cobol, basic and
pascal--then seeing Dennis Richies' little project (A, B and "C"), I
asked,
"WHAT THE H3LL IS THAT?" grin

... however, point well taken...
Mr. Dennis Richies REAL homepage:
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/

Warmest regards,
John