Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is
passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) I've used the acetic-acid smelling stuff for decades on a variety of metals including tinned and untinned wire, aluminum, nickel, and copper circuit boards, and never seen a hint of corrosion. But formulations vary widely, and my experience certainly isn't exhaustive. I'm not entirely convinced, though, that among the many formulations there aren't others, which don't have that smell, which might be corrosive to some materials. People who worry about this should buy an industrial product and stay with it, since there's a much better chance the formulation won't change in the future without notice. Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:14:29 -0800, Roy Lewallen
wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) [snip] Roy Lewallen, W7EL HI Roy, I have been using a different product for over a decade that works great - liquid vinyl tape. It does a heck of a job for sealing water-tight connections and, like RTV, doesn'g get hard and crack. You can buy it a most hardware stores. Its easy to use and, like was suggest earlier in this thread, I first wrap the connection with regular vinyl tape (a single layer) before appling the liquid compond - its makes for much easier removal when needed. 73 Danny |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
Dan Richardson k6mheatadelphia wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:14:29 -0800, Roy Lewallen wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) [snip] Roy Lewallen, W7EL HI Roy, I have been using a different product for over a decade that works great - liquid vinyl tape. It does a heck of a job for sealing water-tight connections and, like RTV, doesn'g get hard and crack. You can buy it a most hardware stores. Its easy to use and, like was suggest earlier in this thread, I first wrap the connection with regular vinyl tape (a single layer) before appling the liquid compond - its makes for much easier removal when needed. I've pretty much switched completely to the Plasti-Dip stuff myself. It is readily available in at least two colors--red and black--at Lowe's. I used RTV, both the acetic acid and non-acetic acid varieties through the years. After a couple of unpleasant corrosion experiences with the acetic acid type, I began either wrapping connectors with vinyl electrical tape or spraying with acrylic sealant and then applied the RTV. Either way works well. I recall seeing cautions that one should be wary of black RTV in that it could conduct. I don't know whether it can break down but I've used the clear product. Dave Heil K8MN |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
I was visiting a local SGC dealer years ago as he was troubleshooting a
brand new antenna tuner that was not working. When he opened the plastic case, that special RTV acidic smell almost knocked us over and all the tinned circuit board traces and exposed wiring were corroded and black. SGC claimed they used the wrong type of RTV on a batch of tuners that was not for electronics use. Mike Roy Lewallen wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) I've used the acetic-acid smelling stuff for decades on a variety of metals including tinned and untinned wire, aluminum, nickel, and copper circuit boards, and never seen a hint of corrosion. But formulations vary widely, and my experience certainly isn't exhaustive. I'm not entirely convinced, though, that among the many formulations there aren't others, which don't have that smell, which might be corrosive to some materials. People who worry about this should buy an industrial product and stay with it, since there's a much better chance the formulation won't change in the future without notice. Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
Mike wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) I've used the acetic-acid smelling stuff for decades on a variety of metals including tinned and untinned wire, aluminum, nickel, and copper circuit boards, and never seen a hint of corrosion. But formulations vary widely, and my experience certainly isn't exhaustive. I'm not entirely convinced, though, that among the many formulations there aren't others, which don't have that smell, which might be corrosive to some materials. People who worry about this should buy an industrial product and stay with it, since there's a much better chance the formulation won't change in the future without notice. Roy Lewallen, W7EL I was visiting a local SGC dealer years ago as he was troubleshooting a brand new antenna tuner that was not working. When he opened the plastic case, that special RTV acidic smell almost knocked us over and all the tinned circuit board traces and exposed wiring were corroded and black. SGC claimed they used the wrong type of RTV on a batch of tuners that was not for electronics use. Most likely because they closed the cases before the silicone had cured, not realising they were trapping the acetic acid vapour inside. The same can happen in balun boxes and the like. It would be interesting to know if there have been *any* cases that didn't also involve some kind of closed situation, or possibly a layer that was too thick to let the vapour diffuse out. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:04:48 +0000, Ian White GM3SEK
wrote: Mike wrote: Roy Lewallen wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) I've used the acetic-acid smelling stuff for decades on a variety of metals including tinned and untinned wire, aluminum, nickel, and copper circuit boards, and never seen a hint of corrosion. But formulations vary widely, and my experience certainly isn't exhaustive. I'm not entirely convinced, though, that among the many formulations there aren't others, which don't have that smell, which might be corrosive to some materials. People who worry about this should buy an industrial product and stay with it, since there's a much better chance the formulation won't change in the future without notice. Roy Lewallen, W7EL I was visiting a local SGC dealer years ago as he was troubleshooting a brand new antenna tuner that was not working. When he opened the plastic case, that special RTV acidic smell almost knocked us over and all the tinned circuit board traces and exposed wiring were corroded and black. SGC claimed they used the wrong type of RTV on a batch of tuners that was not for electronics use. Most likely because they closed the cases before the silicone had cured, That outgasing from a think layer will go on for many days which would make it impractical to use in this case. not realising they were trapping the acetic acid vapour inside. The same can happen in balun boxes and the like. In this case it would also depend on how much RTV, or how thick the layer of RTV. As I said, the outgasing will go on for quite some time and the thicker the longer it outgases. I'd not use the acid smelling version from either producer on PC boards. It would be interesting to know if there have been *any* cases that didn't also involve some kind of closed situation, or possibly a layer that was too thick to let the vapour diffuse out. A thin layer should cause no problem if it is given time to outgas, but a thick layer will most likely eventually ruin the PC board. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
Roger wrote:
I was visiting a local SGC dealer years ago as he was troubleshooting a brand new antenna tuner that was not working. When he opened the plastic case, that special RTV acidic smell almost knocked us over and all the tinned circuit board traces and exposed wiring were corroded and black. SGC claimed they used the wrong type of RTV on a batch of tuners that was not for electronics use. Most likely because they closed the cases before the silicone had cured, That outgasing from a think layer will go on for many days which would make it impractical to use in this case. not realising they were trapping the acetic acid vapour inside. The same can happen in balun boxes and the like. In this case it would also depend on how much RTV, or how thick the layer of RTV. As I said, the outgasing will go on for quite some time and the thicker the longer it outgases. I'd not use the acid smelling version from either producer on PC boards. It would be interesting to know if there have been *any* cases that didn't also involve some kind of closed situation, or possibly a layer that was too thick to let the vapour diffuse out. A thin layer should cause no problem if it is given time to outgas, but a thick layer will most likely eventually ruin the PC board. Agreed; but that isn't really the fault of the silicone material. It's more like "misuse". But why do we use silicone for coax/antenna sealing anyway? Anything for which you might use silicone could probably be done a lot better using hot-melt glue. Ordinary hot-melt glue (amorphous polypropylene) has good RF properties, is non-corrosive, is very sticky, seals very well to metals and plastics, is flexible, has no problems about being used in thick layers, sets in minutes rather than hours, has at least as good weathering properties as silicone, can be removed by cutting, peeling or melting, and is very economical. You can often use it in the backyard without electrical power, because a typical glue gun gives up to 5 minutes working time after having been unplugged. There's more information in the archives of this group, thanks to Barry Ornitz, WA4VZQ. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
RTV Silicone And Coax Outer Jacket: Safe ?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:14:29 -0800, Roy Lewallen
wrote: The advice to avoid acetic-acid smelling RTV because of corrosion is passed along from person to person like an urban legend, but like an urban legend it's just about impossible to find anyone who's actually seen any corrosion result from its use. (A number of queries I've made over the years has produced just one, using a very early version of RTV.) OK, here is number 2. Hmmm wait... couldn't we use a different ranking... I retired from the industry and I worked for the original developer of "Silastic RTV (TM)". My address if Midland MI if any one needs another hint. Yes there is an weak acid released from the regular RTVs and it depends on the moisture in the air to aid in curing. Is it, or will it be a problem? That is a Yes and no, or it all depends answer. I use plain old fashion "bathtub calk" on my antenna connections and connectors *outside or outdoors* The acid is not normally a problem *except* where the item is either potted, or enclosed in a container. I would not use it on PC boards where the foil is thin. Outdoors I just "gob it on". As to real corrosion: Some years back we purchased a bunch of remote sensors that were potted in metal boxes for use in harsh environments. They worked very well... for about a year. One failed and who ever removed it brought it into the shop. I decided to perform an autopsy on it. I cut the seal, pried off the cover, and dug out the circuit board, or rather what was left of it. The copper traces were mainly a green powder with bigger chunks of powder around the solder joints where the wires hung loosely. The manufacturer of the sensors had used the wrong potting compound. Had they used the neutral stuff (really stinks) they would have been fine. They replace them all, they were expensive, and we had a bunch. I've used the acetic-acid smelling stuff for decades on a variety of metals including tinned and untinned wire, aluminum, nickel, and copper circuit boards, and never seen a hint of corrosion. But formulations vary widely, and my experience certainly isn't exhaustive. I'm not There are two main producers of RTVs and the formulations are pretty much standard. If you analyzed a tube of the stuff I doubt you could tell which manufacturer produced it. However they have slightly different formulations aimed at the specific use. What every you purchase under what ever brand name most likely comes from one of these two producers unless it says Made in China. entirely convinced, though, that among the many formulations there aren't others, which don't have that smell, which might be corrosive to some materials. People who worry about this should buy an industrial product and stay with it, since there's a much better chance the formulation won't change in the future without notice. The last I knew the only difference was in the packaging. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Silicone Grease In Coax Connectors; Comments And Questions ? | Shortwave | |||
Poor quality low + High TV channels? How much dB in Preamp? | Antenna | |||
Poor quality low + High TV channels? How much dB in Preamp? | Shortwave |