Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

"Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book
available for downloading at:

http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html

Here's a quote:
"In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to
ground by snow are usually always negative under
potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956).
The total precipitation current around the earth is
estimated to be about +340 amperes."


So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot?

Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Do you suppose corona cares whether the air molecules themselves are
charged or whether the unbalanced charge is held on these highly
electrified dust particles?

Corona requires an ionized path through the air with
a sustained current of 100 uA per cm^2. What you are
calling corona is not corona. If a charged particle
is not in the act of discharging, by definition it
cannot be corona. On a clear dusty day, where is the
ionized glowing path through the air that necessarily
accompanies corona?

What W8JI has previously been describing is the electric
fairweather field, not corona. Please see:

http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html

Cecil,

That's a good one. Are you going to start referencing the CFA and EH
crowd next?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Noise level between two ant types
 

"John - KD5YI" wrote in message
news:9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08...
Cecil Moore wrote:

"Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book
available for downloading at:

http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html

Here's a quote:
"In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to
ground by snow are usually always negative under
potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956).
The total precipitation current around the earth is
estimated to be about +340 amperes."


So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot?

oh my god. there are several picoamperes on my antennas! what should i do?

Gravity

Noise level between two ant types
 

John - KD5YI wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
"In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to
ground by snow are usually always negative under
potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956).
The total precipitation current around the earth is
estimated to be about +340 amperes."

So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot?

I assume that's an average value. Localized values could
be much less or much greater.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

gravity wrote:
"John - KD5YI" wrote in message
news:9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08...

Cecil Moore wrote:


"Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book
available for downloading at:

http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html

Here's a quote:
"In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to
ground by snow are usually always negative under
potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956).
The total precipitation current around the earth is
estimated to be about +340 amperes."


So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot?


oh my god. there are several picoamperes on my antennas! what should i do?

Gravity



Well, one fellow wanted to use them to trickle charge a battery. Good
luck with that!
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Noise level between two ant types
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
That's a good one. Are you going to start referencing the CFA and EH
crowd next?

Is NASA part of the CFA and EH crowds? Please note the complete
absence of references to corona when fairweather fields are
being discussed.

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...d15jun99_1.htm
"Later experimenters showed that *clear, calm air* carries an
electrical current ...

http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/Contributions/Tammet.pdf
"The global component of variations of *fair weather electricity*
is a subject of special attention ..."

http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/07/mrstatic.html
"Fair-weather conditions are shown on the left side of the
figure, where a downward electric field drives positive
charges toward ground."

http://www.missioninstruments.com/pa...ec_fields.html
"On a *clear day*, when the atmosphere is clear of storm clouds,
the primary source of electric charge creating an electric field
on the surface of the earth is the ionosphere. ... This scenario
creates what is termed a "fair weather" electric field due to
the positive charge overhead."

http://www.campbellsci.com/documents...0_overview.pdf
"On a *clear day (fair weather)*, a relatively small number of
positive ions exist in the atmosphere that give rise to an
electric field on the order of -100 to -200 V/m."
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
That's a good one. Are you going to start referencing the CFA and EH
crowd next?

Is NASA part of the CFA and EH crowds? Please note the complete
absence of references to corona when fairweather fields are
being discussed.


Cecil,

None of those references mention world peace or noise on HF antennas
either. What is your point? There is an entire universe of documents
that include no reference to corona.

I will repeat, nobody has any issues with fairweather fields or any of
the other atmospheric stuff you keep dredging up. So what?

You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that
supports your model for noise generation.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Noise level between two ant types
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
I will repeat, nobody has any issues with fairweather fields or any of
the other atmospheric stuff you keep dredging up. So what?

Sour grapes?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Gene W4SZ wrote:
"You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that
supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil)

Particle discharge makes radio static noise.

Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of
charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary
antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through
clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same.

Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the
aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna
wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Noise level between two ant types
 

Richard Harrison wrote:
Gene W4SZ wrote:
"You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that
supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil)

Particle discharge makes radio static noise.

Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of
charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary
antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through
clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same.

Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the
aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna
wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


Hi Richard,

You skipped the most interesting part in Terman.

In the 1955 edition, page 857, he says,

"The term precipitation static denotes a type of interference frequently
observed in an airplane passing through snow or rain. Under such
circumstances, the airplane may become electrically charged to such a
high potential with respect to the surrounding space that a corona
discharge breaks out at some sharp point on the plane. The interference
that this corona discharge produces with radio reception, termed
precipitation static, is particularly serious at short-wave and lower
frequencies."


So who are ya gonna believe? Terman? the ARRL Handbook? Cecil? Tom R.?


73,
Gene
W4SZ