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#621
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
"Anonyma" wrote in message ... Dave Said: I'll say it again ... INVESTMENT!! If an activity is to have value it must have INVESTMENT. Hi Dave, Thanks for the replies, I surely didn't mean to get a flamewar going, but, it seems there are some very strong views on this. I don't mind putting an investment into something...usually when I learn something new, I research and get into it 110%. The trouble with the requirements and all there that I see is, that it puts up a very high initial investment before you can actually get in and do anything with it. I guess I question, well how do I know it will be worth all the time invested before I even get to 'play'? In my case, and I'm sure many others out there in this day in age, my TIME is what is of such short supply. I have no problem laying out cash for equipment...with most things I do, I generally jump in with both feet, buy equipment and 'learn as I go'. I'd like to do the same with ham and other radio technologies, but, in this case, I find a large wall in front of me of study and test taking, before I even get to jump on the air even once to see how much I'd like it. Does that make sense to you? Thanks for the replies, The time investment is not as much as it seems. That is even more true of someone who has experience in related fields or has experience in the art of studying. For those with some existing experience in related fields, they can often read up enough in a single weekend to pass the Technician written. This will let you get your feet wet in the VHF/UHF and higher frequencies. There's quite a lot that can be done in this area if you invest in the equipment. Again if you have some related background, the General written is not particularly time consuming to study for either. The code is only as hard as you make it by fighting yourself. If you decide that you will learn it, the average person only needs about 30 hours to get to 5wpm, assuming that a good training method is used. Getting the General license gives you all modes and all bands and the maximum power privileges. The only thing you do not get are some subsections on some of the bands that are reserved for Extra licensees. Now the Extra test is quite a bit more difficult but is not required unless you want to get into those subsections mentioned above. You spoke of "learning as you go". Basically ham radio is the same. Even the Extra class license has only scratched the surface of all that might be involved in amateur radio. The tests & licensing are to insure that you know enough not to get hurt, not to cause harm to other people, and not to make a mess on the bands. Also they are to insure that you have a grounding in the basics so you don't go spinning your wheels trying to get things working. You might ask why this is important. Let's just address the safety area for a moment. Well for example, you can actually get a burn from grabbing an antenna that is being used to transmit. If you get into microwave transmissions, you could fry your eyes (or somebody else's) if you look into the end of a wave guide while it's being used to transmit. You can get electrical shocks from feedback due to a poorly set up station. This is just a small sample of some of the things that you should be familiar with. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#623
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
"Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer" wrote in message ... Dave Said: As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. I've seen this DX term here and there, but, can't seem to find out what it stand for, or what a DX community is. Can you post some info or links on what this is/involves? Thanks, noonespecial DX simply means distance. If you are talking about HF transmissions, it normally refers to countries outside your own. If you are talking about VHF and higher, it can be within your own country but at distances beyond line of site communications. The "DX community" is simply a term that refers collectively to those who are particularly interested and involved in the longer distance radio contacts. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#624
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
I would like to add that DXing isn't limited to chasing awards. Some people
just like to find someone in a foreign country to ragchew with. One day I was lucky enough to come across a gentleman in Italy who simply wanted to talk not run a pileup. We spent about 1/2 an hour just chatting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE "Dave" wrote in message . .. Example. A few months ago a group of ham radio operators went into the central Pacific Ocean to an island named Swain's Island [ATOLL]. Swain's Island had just been approved by the Ham radio Certificate Powers {American Radio relay League] as a separate DX [distance] entity and as such it qualifies as an entry into the various DX awards [DXCC being the prime award}. [DXCC means you have submitted written proof of confirmed contacts with other ham radio operators in 100 or more other countries [or entities]. The Hams operated from this rare location for about a week and then returned home. There is no-one there today! Let me digress into another of your questions: i.e. What is SSB? Fifty years ago ham radio, and still today the AM broadcast band, transmitted three components to put a signal on the air. First, was the carrier that set the dial frequency e.g. 3950 KHz. The carrier contains NO information, it just sets the dial frequency. Then voice audio was added to the carrier. This addition [modulation] produced two audio signals around the carrier. One above the carrier, the other below the carrier. So, the resulting signal had the carrier and one upper side band and one lower sideband. The carrier contained 2X the power of the audio. And the audio was redundant with 1/2 the audio power in each sideband. The resulting signal can be described as Double Sideband Plus Carrier. In the 50s and early 60s design techniques were incorporated to suppress the carrier, which contained NO information; and to eliminate one of the redundant sidebands. The resulting signal is Single Sideband [one audio channel] with suppressed carrier. [SSB = Single Side Band] wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:10:03 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote: Dave Said: As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. I've seen this DX term here and there, but, can't seem to find out what it stand for, or what a DX community is. Can you post some info or links on what this is/involves? well even if you are pulling our chain it is better than a lot of the stuff posted DX isseeking out Distant contacts for an eXchange of very basic data and ocollecting these conacts and esp proof of these conacts for various awadrd the DX comunity obviously is those into chasing down these DX contacts Thanks, noonespecial http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ |
#625
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the fray. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake thusly: George Orwell wrote: Al Klein said: Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would expect you to be able to understand that. Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html This seems fair, to me. As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread and butter. But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. But then again, a mechanic *might* need to do urgent bodywork on an 1930's wood-bodied ambulance and therefore save somebodys life. ;-) {hehe...sorry..just had to pour on more coal..} Just about as likely a scenario as CW being the only way to save a life. But then, if I were stranded on a desert island and found some old war time aircraft wreckage, I could modify a magneto to be a spark generator and spark out an S.O.S. My mechanical skills help me there. Well......could happen!! -- \|||/ Kilroy was Here. (@@) ____ooO_(_)_Ooo___________________________________ _ |_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| |___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ | |_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_ _ Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. |
#626
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
"Opus-" wrote in message ... I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the fray. lots snipped The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html This seems fair, to me. As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread and butter. I'm not sure I recall all the other posters idea of investment - but "mine" - was referring to the time/cost how ever little - "spent" or "Invested" - if you will - in the way of time to study or prepare for the exam - acquire equipment AND to actually go on the air to make use of it. So - yes it "can" be looked as an investment - even if in a "minimal" sense of the word. IN the way I "think" you're referring to - as an investment towards a "rewarding career" or leap forward into life - eh - depends on the person. Many do NOT make electronics their lifes work. BUT, many have started from ham (some from CB and then ham) and went on into some electronics or electrical field. So for "them" - it "was" an investment of sorts - into their future. Just like another part of this thread where "memory and memorization" was being used, hacked, slanged - the word "investment" could also go that direction. It is all in how you want to look at it and perceive it. Just my 2 cents! L. |
#627
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
L. wrote: "Opus-" wrote in message ... As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread and butter. I'm not sure I recall all the other posters idea of investment - but "mine" - was referring to the time/cost how ever little - "spent" or "Invested" - if you will - in the way of time to study or prepare for the exam - acquire equipment AND to actually go on the air to make use of it. So - yes it "can" be looked as an investment - even if in a "minimal" sense of the word. but that doesn't count of course like My g-5500 totor set isn't an investment in my station these folks are just in to what I call the "S&M" school of licensure |
#628
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
From: Dave on Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:44 pm
Lloyd 4 wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:18:12 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell wrote: Al Klein said: Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would expect you to be able to understand that. Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing around looking at ham and talking to an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. A DX pile of 100 stations on CW occupies much less bandwidth than 1 SSB station. The CW contact rate exceeds the SSB rate. As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. Hey, "Dave," since when does the FCC mandate all hams MUST "work DX?" [try to remember that "the DX community" does NOT issue/grant/authorize amateur radio licenses, only the FCC] "Working DX on HF with CW" is an OPTION, not a requirement. In fact, the FCC doesn't even mandate 'working' a foreign radio amateur at all. ['foreign' meaning any country outside USA jurisdiction] It's your choice: if you want to play the DX game learn the rules including 25 wpm CW. "Dave," you really need to be reminded that the FCC does NOT mandate/require/encourage ANY "DX contacts." Neither does the "DX community" grant any licenses OR make any "rules" that ALL US radio amateurs must follow. Oh, and "Dave," the REAL US amateur radio regulations require passing a FIVE WORD PER MINUTE (equivalent) manual telegraphy test (15 words per minute with the "farnesworth" approved equivalent rate), not "twenty-five words per minute." "Dave," have you been licensed a long time? I don't recall ANY FCC requlations requiring a "twenty-five" rating, only the OLD regulation (prior to mid-2000) and that only for Extra class. I'd say you really ought to review the latest rules that apply in this new millennium. You can review those for free at the United States Government Printing Office website under "Code of Federal Regulations." You can also get it at the ARRL website since the ARRL seems to think they are the only "official" source for everything amateur... If you want to operate an appliance, but an appliance. You mean EVERYONE "following the rules of the DX Community" uses homebuilt radios? All have built their own keys so that they don't use appliance keys? Amazing... How does anyone "but an appliance?" :-) Beep, beep, |
#629
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
Dee Flint on Wed, Aug 30 2006 4:17 pm
"Anonyma" wrote in message Dave Said: I'll say it again ... INVESTMENT!! If an activity is to have value it must have INVESTMENT. [ "Dave" is a suspect banker in the investment trade? ] The time investment is not as much as it seems. Dee, the "time investment" for MORSEMANSHIP depends entirely on the psycho-acoustical aptitudes of the learner. "Learning" a psycho-acoustic skill is NOT an intellectual one, it is a physical one. That is even more true of someone who has experience in related fields or has experience in the art of studying. For those with some existing experience in related fields, they can often read up enough in a single weekend to pass the Technician written. You morsepersons need to get a common story. The rabid morsemen keep saying it is all "memorization," taking no skill whatsoever. This will let you get your feet wet in the VHF/UHF and higher frequencies. There's quite a lot that can be done in this area if you invest in the equipment. Come right out and say it...you morsepersons consider the frequency world above 30 MHz to be beneath you, a place for kids and lids (and probably space cadets) to go and PLAY. Again if you have some related background, the General written is not particularly time consuming to study for either. Everyone can just "memorize" the answers, right? :-) The code is only as hard as you make it by fighting yourself. If you decide that you will learn it, the average person only needs about 30 hours to get to 5wpm, assuming that a good training method is used. The ARRL VEC uses the "farnesworth" method which send at FIFTEEN words per minute...even though the FCC regulations have five. Dee, you haven't addressed the subject of the existance of the manual morse code test itself. You (erroneously) think that it is "necessary," possibly because you had to take that test. Getting the General license gives you all modes and all bands and the maximum power privileges. The only thing you do not get are some subsections on some of the bands that are reserved for Extra licensees. Now the Extra test is quite a bit more difficult but is not required unless you want to get into those subsections mentioned above. Extra class are the "elite." Having an extra license allows all the preening and self-righteous attitudes possible in a hobby activity. It is personally rewarding to elitist-wannabes who have to be "better than ordinary persons." You spoke of "learning as you go". Basically ham radio is the same. Even the Extra class license has only scratched the surface of all that might be involved in amateur radio. Really? All those extras in here seem to think they are FAR better than any professionals in radio...because they had to test for morsemanship. The tests & licensing are to insure that you know enough not to get hurt, not to cause harm to other people, and not to make a mess on the bands. Also they are to insure that you have a grounding in the basics so you don't go spinning your wheels trying to get things working. Golleee! All along I thought the FCC just regulated (and mitigated interference) in ALL US civil radio. Their predecessor agencies (before 1934) used Licensing and Testing for same as a REGULATORY tool. I didn't know that those were also academic tests and diplomas... You might ask why this is important. Why IS morsemanship so important? Let's just address the safety area for a moment. FCC amateur radio regulations cover only the radiated RF power field. As a safety issue for ALL affected by that RF field. Does YOUR station obey the federal regulations? Well for example, you can actually get a burn from grabbing an antenna that is being used to transmit. Why would anyone do that? [anything in official rules on that?] If you get into microwave transmissions, you could fry your eyes (or somebody else's) if you look into the end of a wave guide while it's being used to transmit. Why would anyone do that? You can get far worse damage to the eyes looking into a laser beam of much less power...and you don't need any license for that. You can get electrical shocks from feedback due to a poorly set up station. This is just a small sample of some of the things that you should be familiar with. Those aren't covered in FCC regulations, are they? "Feedback gives one shocks?" I suppose...I've made feedback networks for years and never been "electrically shocked" by them. Delighted and surprised that they worked so well, perhaps, but never got any electrical shocks from feedback. I guess I'm just not "amateur" enough...hi hi :-) |
#630
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If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
From: Dave on Wed, Aug 30 2006 10:34 am
Let me digress into another of your questions: i.e. What is SSB? Fifty years ago ham radio, and still today the AM broadcast band, transmitted three components to put a signal on the air. First, was the carrier that set the dial frequency e.g. 3950 KHz. The carrier contains NO information, it just sets the dial frequency. Then voice audio was added to the carrier. This addition [modulation] produced two audio signals around the carrier. One above the carrier, the other below the carrier. So, the resulting signal had the carrier and one upper side band and one lower sideband. The carrier contained 2X the power of the audio. And the audio was redundant with 1/2 the audio power in each sideband. The resulting signal can be described as Double Sideband Plus Carrier. In the 50s and early 60s design techniques were incorporated to suppress the carrier, which contained NO information; and to eliminate one of the redundant sidebands. The resulting signal is Single Sideband [one audio channel] with suppressed carrier. [SSB = Single Side Band] "Dave," your knowledge of Single Sideband is ferklempt. The spectra of an amplitude modulated signal was mathematically described by John R. Carson of AT&T before the 1920s. SSB, including suppressed carrier, was USED by the telephone infrastructure in the 1920s for long-distance lines. The most common system, "C Carrier," had four separate 3 KHz voice channels and would operate on the open-wire telephone lines then common all over the world. This "C Carrier" was directly adapted to HF radio in the early 1930s, the frequency-multiplexed total signal converted to HF and amplified. The first HF SSB radio link was put into service between the Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles carrying four voice channels or (to become the later commercial-military standard of two voice and six to eight TTY channels). While single-channel SSB was experimented with before WW2, it didn't expand until after WW2 and a number of US military contracts awarded to then-prominent radio makers (Collins, RCA as two examples). Based on that success, the amateurs took it up in the 1950s while the ARRL promoted the false idea that "SSB was pioneered by radio amateurs." Technically, your statement was faulty. Each "sideband" (the spectra adjacent to the carrier) carries ONE QUARTER of the total RF power output of single-channel SSB, not "half" in normal AM. In normal AM the carrier is always constant in amplitude. In normal AM receivers the "detector" stage is a mixer, combining the carrier with the two sideband spectra with the output lowpass filtered to yield the original audio signal. Single-channel SSB usually suppresses the carrier (almost to extinction) and the "detector" stage being fed an equivalent constant-amplitude carrier signal from an internal receiver oscillator. The mix products of carrier re-insertion and the input single sideband spectra yield the original audio modulation after lowpass filtering. The important thing about single-channel SSB is that a transmitter peak power output of RF need only be one-half to on-quarter of a conventional AM transmitter to yield the same demodulated audio signal level. No morsemanship skill is necessary to use a single-channel SSB radio. Today it is being used on the open sea by both commercial and private boat/ship owners for voice communications; also data, separate or multiplexed, for written communications. |
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